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Jonathan Toews has four goals in his last 41 playoff games

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06-18-2013, 06:38 AM
  #76
Chelios
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The guy is massively overrated. By HF, TSN, NBC and just about everyone else. It is glowing very bright how important the team he had in 2010 was. Very average at best player even with the hype!
I am sorry, but this is just flat out wrong. He is having a rough playoffs. He has had a rough few playoffs. Without even arguing why those playoffs were rough, to say he is an average player at best is laughable. PPG players who are also elite defensively are not average. His stanley cup run in 2010 was not average. His 2010 Olympic tournament was not average. Being on a 40 goal pace over the last 2 seasons is not average. Being one of the top faceoff men in the league is not average. Being the best player on the most dominant team in the league is not average. Winning the Selke trophy while finishing 4th in Hart voting is not average.

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06-18-2013, 06:44 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
Has he been injured for the past 41 playoff games?
As I have said, I believe he has been injured these playoffs which account for nearly half of those games. He was also not himself last year coming off a concussion where he missed 22 games. So yeah, he has been injured for a good portion of those 41 games.

Again, if it comes out after these playoffs that there is no injury I retract my stance and he certainly does deserve criticism for his playoff performance.

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06-18-2013, 06:46 AM
  #78
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The myth that is Toews is just.......weird

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06-18-2013, 06:49 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
As I have said, I believe he has been injured these playoffs which account for nearly half of those games. He was also not himself last year coming off a concussion where he missed 22 games. So yeah, he has been injured for a good portion of those 41 games.

Again, if it comes out after these playoffs that there is no injury I retract my stance and he certainly does deserve criticism for his playoff performance.
Fair enough, Toews does get a lot criticism. So I get that you defend your team captain.

He is overrated tough and definitely has reputation as a big game performer and frankly, he doesn't deserve that reputation. Ovechkin has been significantly better in play-offs and he gets a lot punishment of being a poor play-off player.

Toews is a great player and I believe he is solid top-10 center. Right in the mix with Getzlaf/Kopitar/ etc. But he is a clear notch below Stamkos/Datsuyk not even talking about Malkin and Crosby.

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06-18-2013, 06:59 AM
  #80
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Toews sucks! He just turned 25, has already won an Olympic Gold Medal, won gold at the World Championships, won two golds at the World Junior Championships as well, and as an NHL captain has led his team to one Stanley Cup win and is playing in another currently. Horrible.

Heard a rumor actually that he is homesick, that he wants to return home to Winnipeg and to play for the Jets. Have discussed this with a few friends and we've decided that the Jets would likely be more than willing to send back to the Hawks Byfuglien and Burmistrov in return as compensation. Thanks in advance.

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06-18-2013, 06:59 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
I am sorry, but this is just flat out wrong. He is having a rough playoffs. He has had a rough few playoffs. Without even arguing why those playoffs were rough, to say he is an average player at best is laughable. PPG players who are also elite defensively are not average. His stanley cup run in 2010 was not average. His 2010 Olympic tournament was not average. Being on a 40 goal pace over the last 2 seasons is not average. Being one of the top faceoff men in the league is not average. Being the best player on the most dominant team in the league is not average. Winning the Selke trophy while finishing 4th in Hart voting is not average.
I dont think so. And yes he's very overrated and I hope he keeps being the great player that we have seen so far. Very mediocre at best.

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06-18-2013, 07:01 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Toews sucks! He just turned 25, has already won an Olympic Gold Medal, won gold at the World Championships, won two golds at the World Junior Championships as well, and as an NHL captain led his team to one Stanley Cup win and is playing in another currently. Horrible.

Heard a rumor actually that he is homesick, that he wants to return home to Winnipeg and to play for the Jets. Have discussed this with a few friends and we've decided that the Jets would likely be more than willing to send back to the Hawks Byfuglien and Burmistrov in return as compensation. Thanks in advance.
In the NHL world WHO CARES !

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06-18-2013, 07:04 AM
  #83
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In the NHL world WHO CARES !
Apparently you do, considering that you took the effort to reply. Not surprising really given that many of his triumphs came at the expense of the US team. Ouch.

Have a nice day!

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06-18-2013, 07:07 AM
  #84
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If he had tangibles, nobody would be talking about intangibles

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06-18-2013, 07:07 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Toews sucks! He just turned 25, has already won an Olympic Gold Medal, won gold at the World Championships, won two golds at the World Junior Championships as well, and as an NHL captain has led his team to one Stanley Cup win and is playing in another currently. Horrible.
I remember when people defended Chris Drury using exactly this line of reasoning.

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06-18-2013, 07:12 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
I remember when people defended Chris Drury using exactly this line of reasoning.
You clearly must be mistaken because Drury never won a single gold in international play IIRC, at any level. Not exactly an analogous comparison, at all.

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06-18-2013, 07:19 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Apparently you do, considering that you took the effort to reply. Not surprising really given that many of his triumphs came at the expense of the US team. Ouch.

Have a nice day!
I haven't slept a night since losing in those tournaments. Unlike you I'm sure

I heard there was a good deal on some Jonathan Toews footie pj's in the sport shop.

In this counrty we dont live and die (or care) with results of hockey tournaments, in fact one could argue that most dont even know we play hockey

Jonathan Toews is a good hockey player but he's also extremely grossly overated, you have a good day also.

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06-18-2013, 07:22 AM
  #88
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59pts in 72 playoff games

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Old
06-18-2013, 07:23 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
As I have said, I believe he has been injured these playoffs which account for nearly half of those games. He was also not himself last year coming off a concussion where he missed 22 games. So yeah, he has been injured for a good portion of those 41 games.

Again, if it comes out after these playoffs that there is no injury I retract my stance and he certainly does deserve criticism for his playoff performance.
No possible way he's not as good as the hype suggests? And he had a great in front of him in 2010. And come on the Olympics? Really? There wasn't any talent on that team!

Come on dude TSN called him the 3rd best player in the NHL! Lucky if the 3rd best player on his team!

I will stick with my original thought. Massively overrated average player. Would I take him on my team? Yes but he's not living up to the hype and it shows!

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06-18-2013, 07:26 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by 4ORRBRUIN View Post
I haven't slept a night since losing in those tournaments. Unlike you I'm sure

I heard there was a good deal on some Jonathan Toews footie pj's in the sport shop.

In this counrty we dont live and die (or care) with results of hockey tournaments, in fact one could argue that most dont even know we play hockey

Jonathan Toews is a good hockey player but he's also extremely grossly overated, you have a good day also.
You keep telling yourself that in lieu of an ability to refute his many accomplishments at such a young age. That is great BTW that international hockey doesn't really matter there; guess that is why the Bruins need to ice 18 Canadians on their current active roster. They may as well be called the Boston Canadians.

Cheers.

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06-18-2013, 07:31 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
You keep telling yourself that in lieu of an ability to refute his many accomplishments at such a young age. That is great BTW that international hockey doesn't really matter there; guess that is why the Bruins need to ice 18 Canadians on their current active roster. They may as well be called the Boston Canadians.

Cheers.
It is common knowledge that Canada produces the majority of NHL players. But in the NHL the nationality doesn't matter. I have no idea why you would bring it up.

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06-18-2013, 07:34 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
It is common knowledge that Canada produces the majority of NHL players. But in the NHL the nationality doesn't matter. I have no idea why you would bring it up.
If you read the thread, it was initially brought up to refute the erroneous HF "Toews is overrated" meme.

One way to dismiss such an argument is to list his accomplishments in international play alongside his NHL accomplishments.

Hope that helps.

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06-18-2013, 07:37 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
You keep telling yourself that in lieu of an ability to refute his many accomplishments at such a young age. That is great BTW that international hockey doesn't really matter there; guess that is why the Bruins need to ice 18 Canadians on their current active roster. They may as well be called the Boston Canadians.

Cheers.
And you refuse to note that those are all team accomplishments in his age group. This is overrating that everyone talks about. He's one player and he's no Gretzky or Lemieux.

Give it a rest! He's been a darling and now isn't getting the Canadian media criticism he deserves!

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06-18-2013, 07:38 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
If you read the thread, it was initially brought up to refute the erroneous HF "Toews is overrated" meme.

One way to dismiss such an argument is to list his accomplishments in international play alongside his NHL accomplishments.

Hope that helps.
Well, the success in international level only tells that Toews has been good enough to get to play for the best team in the world. But Canada is the favorite to win everytime they put up a best on best tournament. So as the invitation to Canada national team is a "feather in ones hat" the success in that team is not as telling as you make it out to be.

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06-18-2013, 07:39 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
You keep telling yourself that in lieu of an ability to refute his many accomplishments at such a young age. That is great BTW that international hockey doesn't really matter there; guess that is why the Bruins need to ice 18 Canadians on their current active roster. They may as well be called the Boston Canadians.

Cheers.
Relax, its only HOCKEY. No need to get upset.

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06-18-2013, 07:48 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
You clearly must be mistaken because Drury never won a single gold in international play IIRC, at any level. Not exactly an analogous comparison, at all.
It's absolutely analogous. Drury was a good young prospect who gained the "winner" and "clutch player" reputation early on due to winning the Cup in combination with non-NHL achievements (including Olympic silver which was a huge accomplishment for the American team). He was Mr. Intangibles before Toews was out of grade school.

Unfortunately as we now know, Drury was not destined to be THAT good of a player. But people continued to push the idea that he had this invaluable clutch/winner quality, and really played up his occasional offensive outbursts -- especially when they helped further the myth of his clutchness. Next thing you know the guy gets a $7m contract because he was such an intangibly clutch winner, and we know how that ended.

Toews is clearly a better hockey player than Drury, but playing up his medal collection is EXACTLY the kind of thing people did to propel a 2nd-line winger to the mythical "Captain Clutch" persona that Drury occupied for at least half his career.

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06-18-2013, 07:50 AM
  #97
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06-18-2013, 08:03 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
Fair enough, Toews does get a lot criticism. So I get that you defend your team captain.

He is overrated tough and definitely has reputation as a big game performer and frankly, he doesn't deserve that reputation. Ovechkin has been significantly better in play-offs and he gets a lot punishment of being a poor play-off player.

Toews is a great player and I believe he is solid top-10 center. Right in the mix with Getzlaf/Kopitar/ etc. But he is a clear notch below Stamkos/Datsuyk not even talking about Malkin and Crosby.
If it turns out he is not injured, than I agree his reputation as a big game performer may need to be re-evaluated. If he is injured, I think it is still reasonable to say he is a big game player. He played very well in both the 2009 and 2010 playoff runs and was outstanding in the 2010 Olympics. Since then he has played one average series (Vancouver 2011), one series where he was coming off a significant concussion (Phoenix 2012) and one run to the stanley cup finals where he was injured (again, assuming he is).

Again, the thing many people are overlooking in this thread is that aside from goalscoring and faceoffs (two things that would be greatly affected in the event he does have a wrist/hand injury), he has actually been very good this post season.

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06-18-2013, 08:09 AM
  #99
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If it turns out he is not injured, than I agree his reputation as a big game performer may need to be re-evaluated. If he is injured, I think it is still reasonable to say he is a big game player. He played very well in both the 2009 and 2010 playoff runs and was outstanding in the 2010 Olympics. Since then he has played one average series (Vancouver 2011), one series where he was coming off a significant concussion (Phoenix 2012) and one run to the stanley cup finals where he was injured (again, assuming he is).

Again, the thing many people are overlooking in this thread is that aside from goalscoring and faceoffs (two things that would be greatly affected in the event he does have a wrist/hand injury), he has actually been very good this post season.
Please stop with the injury card. I've watched Steve Yzerman barely able to skate produce. Give the he's hurt a rest. Many players have played hurt and have produced. It's an excuse.

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06-18-2013, 08:10 AM
  #100
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Cherry never stops to amaze me. The guy is a racist and it's unbelievable how he can spew that kind of **** again and again...
I'm not sure he's racist if he was just praising a Czech...

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