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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 11.0

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06-11-2013, 10:01 PM
  #1
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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 11.0

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06-11-2013, 10:16 PM
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I think there is work ethic but looking at the playoffs, and what Bergevin seems to like, high compete level seems like the target. You win with warriors, you win with the guys who will give 110% when the time comes. We need physicality too, but big players that do not compete are not going to be physical either...

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06-11-2013, 10:17 PM
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If Mantha is available at 25...TT should no hesitate to select him.
McCoshen at 34, Dauphin at 36 and trade 55 and 71 to pick up around 40 in order to pick Poirier or Dickinson.

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06-11-2013, 10:27 PM
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RLR's top 10 defencemen: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...semen/2412515/

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06-11-2013, 10:44 PM
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Really want nothing to do with Mantha. Just don't have a high opinion of him.

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06-11-2013, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Anybody see Vannelli play? Don't know much about him. I find it odd he's ahead of Mueller.

I hope the Habs do take a defenceman with one of the first three picks.

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06-11-2013, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Morin continues to climb in the pre-draft lists. It was only a month ago that I was mocked for posting a wish list that had us taking Morin at 25. I stand by my earlier prediction that Morin will be drafted in the top 10. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he cracks the top six. He has that type of upside. It was clearly demonstrated at the U18s. So I wish people would stop talking about Morin as a possible pick for us at 25. Its not going to happen.

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06-12-2013, 01:03 AM
  #8
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http://youtu.be/BdnTcPUS7uU

Watching the WJC U18 gold medal game... I might be forgetting players but here's a list of players I like.


1. Morin
2. Morrissey
3. McCarron
4. Dauphin
5. Klimchuk
6. Hayden

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06-12-2013, 06:20 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Nice list, but I have McCoshen in there instead of Santini and Mueller ahead of Vannelli. I really hope the Habs swipe McCoshen in the second round. Kid has a great two-way game and is quite physical too. He'd look nice on the Habs blueline in 2-3 years from now.

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06-12-2013, 07:04 AM
  #10
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If we draft a d-man offense is something to look for. Shut down defensive defensemen are easier to find. Either later in draft ie. Diaby or thru free agency.

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06-12-2013, 07:39 AM
  #11
Grant McCagg
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Originally Posted by phillytennis View Post
If Mantha is available at 25...TT should no hesitate to select him.
McCoshen at 34, Dauphin at 36 and trade 55 and 71 to pick up around 40 in order to pick Poirier or Dickinson.
After everything you've read about Mantha and have heard about the depth of this draft...TT shouldn't even hesitate picking him eh? I'm taking it that is based on your thorough scouting of his statistical sheet? :-)

There will undoubtedly be hesitation to draft Mantha if he's there. The team is seeking a combo of skill and grit...for obvious reasons. Did you fail to see the Habs get pushed around against divisional rivals last year, particularly in the first round of the playoffs?

Did you notice that Boston..the grittiest team in the league, is in the Cup finals, and the toughest foe they faced was a gritty Leafs' team that is also in our division? I hope you are aware that starting next season the Habs will have to play divisional rivals, most who are full of grit, in the first rounds of the playoffs. Mantha shied away from the dirty areas versus 5-9 Q leaguers..I shudder to think what he'd do in a playoff series versus Lucic and Chara any time soon. Maybe someday he'll figure it out...but believe me..there will be great hesitation in picking him in the first round.

More players the Habs should have drafted in the past "without hesitation"

Pavel Brendl
Steve Bernier
Eric Fehr
Gilbert Brule
Duncan Milroy
Alex Picard
Zach Hamill
Kyle Beach

All were top scorers in their draft year....it's not always about stats.

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06-12-2013, 08:01 AM
  #12
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Habs did draft Milroy, but it was a 2nd round pick, so it wouldn't hurt as much as a 1st rounder.

Columbus pretty much jumped in joy when the habs picked Price and left Brule there.

Beach has the aforementioned grit and toughness, but he was never an option for the habs.

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06-12-2013, 08:01 AM
  #13
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Grant, a quick question for you. Thoughts on John Hayden. Seems like someone TT could target with the late 2nd pick. Thanks

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06-12-2013, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
After everything you've read about Mantha and have heard about the depth of this draft...TT shouldn't even hesitate picking him eh? I'm taking it that is based on your thorough scouting of his statistical sheet? :-)

There will undoubtedly be hesitation to draft Mantha if he's there. The team is seeking a combo of skill and grit...for obvious reasons. Did you fail to see the Habs get pushed around against divisional rivals last year, particularly in the first round of the playoffs?

Did you notice that Boston..the grittiest team in the league, is in the Cup finals, and the toughest foe they faced was a gritty Leafs' team that is also in our division? I hope you are aware that starting next season the Habs will have to play divisional rivals, most who are full of grit, in the first rounds of the playoffs. Mantha shied away from the dirty areas versus 5-9 Q leaguers..I shudder to think what he'd do in a playoff series versus Lucic and Chara any time soon. Maybe someday he'll figure it out...but believe me..there will be great hesitation in picking him in the first round.

More players the Habs should have drafted in the past "without hesitation"

Pavel Brendl
Steve Bernier
Eric Fehr
Gilbert Brule
Duncan Milroy
Alex Picard
Zach Hamill
Kyle Beach

All were top scorers in their draft year....it's not always about stats.
This post makes me so happy

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06-12-2013, 08:39 AM
  #15
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This post makes me so happy
Or, you know, in a few years we'll be slapping ourselves in the faces for passing over a 6'4", 50-goal scorer just because we didn't like how he scores his 50 goals.

It'll be my one nagging concern from the day we pass on him until the day we can officially declare Mantha a bust when he's playing in Europe or something

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06-12-2013, 08:48 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
After everything you've read about Mantha and have heard about the depth of this draft...TT shouldn't even hesitate picking him eh? I'm taking it that is based on your thorough scouting of his statistical sheet? :-)

There will undoubtedly be hesitation to draft Mantha if he's there. The team is seeking a combo of skill and grit...for obvious reasons. Did you fail to see the Habs get pushed around against divisional rivals last year, particularly in the first round of the playoffs?

Did you notice that Boston..the grittiest team in the league, is in the Cup finals, and the toughest foe they faced was a gritty Leafs' team that is also in our division? I hope you are aware that starting next season the Habs will have to play divisional rivals, most who are full of grit, in the first rounds of the playoffs. Mantha shied away from the dirty areas versus 5-9 Q leaguers..I shudder to think what he'd do in a playoff series versus Lucic and Chara any time soon. Maybe someday he'll figure it out...but believe me..there will be great hesitation in picking him in the first round.

More players the Habs should have drafted in the past "without hesitation"

Pavel Brendl
Steve Bernier
Eric Fehr
Gilbert Brule
Duncan Milroy
Alex Picard
Zach Hamill
Kyle Beach

All were top scorers in their draft year....it's not always about stats.
May as well list the last players to score 50 in their draft years: Sidney Crosby, Nail Yakupov (on pace to do so), Jeff Skinner, John Tavares, Steven Stamkos, Patrick Kane, and Joffrey Lupul.

From a qualitative point of view, I think Mantha has what it takes to take his scoring to the next level. He has a quick release and precise shot. Very good skater. May be more physical at times but I still find this very overstated. So, basically the inverse of what Bernier was in the Q. Bernier was a slow skater, long windup and played the power game running over everybody.

In the games I watched this year there was once when I asked myself: is Mantha playing tonight (about halfway in the game)? and he actually ended the night scoring 2. The rest of the time (though I watched sparingly most the time browsing through games on Telus), I thought he was engaged for a goal-scorer.

People say, well he only scores goals, and brings nothing else to the table. I'm like, what? That's already a huge part of the game. I think he can become a 30-goal scorer in the league. Could be a Jeff Carter, Joffrey Lupul kinda guy. Seems to have good character from what I read and heard from Ross McLean.

I'll take this kid over someone like McCaron 10/10. Nothing against the physical guys with great body but they rarely develop into more than your average grinder (a la Colton Gillies). For every Milan Lucic there's a good 10-20 busts.

I also saw the Habs get beat by the beast of a man that is Jean-Gabriel Pageau.

If the Habs start drafting by needs and for what happened in this year's playoffs, they're buying themselves a ticket to terrible drafting. Those guys won't be on the team for at least 3-4 years. Plenty of time for the team to change. Also, the Habs have players who should be doing this already. Guys like Moen, ARrstrong, and so on, who simply didn't play their role.


Last edited by Mathletic: 06-12-2013 at 08:54 AM.
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Old
06-12-2013, 09:00 AM
  #17
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So I wish people would stop talking about Morin as a possible pick for us at 25. Its not going to happen.
Yet, in the board-to-board mock, it looks like he'll be there at 25. Looks like Caps are taking Hartman or Rychel at 23 and I doubt the Canucks fans are taking a somewhat under the radar D from the Q at 24.

And please someone in the top 24 take Mantha, the kid hasn't even been drafted yet and I am tired of reading the Mantha debate.

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06-12-2013, 09:14 AM
  #18
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Guys like Moen, ARrstrong, and so on, who simply didn't play their role.
You're kidding, right? Moen and Armstrong are supposed to do what exactly? Moen always shied away from physical play and has always required threats and warnings from his coaches. Armstrong is just a 4th liner with health issues. These are the players we have to counter the Bickells of this world. How impressive.

I'm not sold on Mantha either, but neither am I saying you use that first rounder on needs. However, what is rather obvious is that you change and implement your corporate culture at the draft and less so via trading or signing UFAs. This draft is replete with power forwards whose ranking aligns with our 2nd and 3rd round picks -- at the opportune turns, whether it's with one or two of the 2nd rounders, or both third rounders, there are a lot of players who play a physical, gritty style, who are skilled and who can be had and will be had by our opponents, unless we get off this smaller-is-always-better bandwagon.


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06-12-2013, 09:37 AM
  #19
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Yet, in the board-to-board mock, it looks like he'll be there at 25. Looks like Caps are taking Hartman or Rychel at 23 and I doubt the Canucks fans are taking a somewhat under the radar D from the Q at 24.

And please someone in the top 24 take Mantha, the kid hasn't even been drafted yet and I am tired of reading the Mantha debate.
But how really relevant are these mock boards. Each week there's another favorite player of the day. Let's look at Poirier. Two weeks ago he was considered at best a late 2nd round choice. Last week people were squirming that he wouldn't last until our 25th pick. Where is he projected to go this week? I wouldn't place too much emphasis on these mocks. Most contributors haven't even seen most of the players and rely on other people's assessment to reach there conclusion. I suggest that people watch the films of the U18 championships and make their own assessment. I would further suggest that NHL general managers and their staffs are spending far more time reviewing those tapes than the countless and, in many cases, ludicrous on-line mock drafts that are appearing daily. The tapes don't lie: on the big ice, at a best-on-best tournament, Morin showed incredible skating ability and ice presence. When he's on the ice, there is a sense of calm and controlled play. I was very impressed as I am certain were the dozens of NHL scouts who were present. The team that draft's him will be getting a player who has a chance to be an impact player at the next level. Regardless of what this latest mock predicts, I stand by my opinion that Morin will go in the top ten. I would take him before any other defenceman that played in that gold medal game. I would take him before Nurse, Zadorov and Ristolainen. That leaves only Jones. And, as his recent performance at the Memorial Cup showed, there are some noticeable holes in Jones' defensive game. It would not surprise me that when all is said and done, Morin will be recognized as the best defenceman that comes out of this draft. Regrettably, he will not be there when we draft at 25. Notwithstanding a thousand mocks predicting otherwise.

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06-12-2013, 09:38 AM
  #20
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So given the choice between Mantha and Gauthier - provided they're both still on the board at #25 - which one would you pick... if either. WTK? Grant? WS?

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06-12-2013, 09:44 AM
  #21
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So given the choice between Mantha and Gauthier - provided they're both still on the board at #25 - which one would you pick... if either. WTK? Grant? WS?
I'd hope for Mantha.

A guy who can score 50 and is labelled as lazy must be doing something extremely right, or be insanely talented.

You can just tell if the habs draft him, he won't develop into anything. If another team does, he'll probably become, at the very least, a very serviceable nhler.

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06-12-2013, 10:07 AM
  #22
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So given the choice between Mantha and Gauthier - provided they're both still on the board at #25 - which one would you pick... if either. WTK? Grant? WS?
I'd pass on both...but forced to choose I would pick Mantha. On chance our deep development team maybe able to work with him.

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06-12-2013, 10:09 AM
  #23
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May as well list the last players to score 50 in their draft years: Sidney Crosby, Nail Yakupov (on pace to do so), Jeff Skinner, John Tavares, Steven Stamkos, Patrick Kane, and Joffrey Lupul.

From a qualitative point of view, I think Mantha has what it takes to take his scoring to the next level. He has a quick release and precise shot. Very good skater. May be more physical at times but I still find this very overstated. So, basically the inverse of what Bernier was in the Q. Bernier was a slow skater, long windup and played the power game running over everybody.

In the games I watched this year there was once when I asked myself: is Mantha playing tonight (about halfway in the game)? and he actually ended the night scoring 2. The rest of the time (though I watched sparingly most the time browsing through games on Telus), I thought he was engaged for a goal-scorer.

People say, well he only scores goals, and brings nothing else to the table. I'm like, what? That's already a huge part of the game. I think he can become a 30-goal scorer in the league. Could be a Jeff Carter, Joffrey Lupul kinda guy. Seems to have good character from what I read and heard from Ross McLean.

I'll take this kid over someone like McCaron 10/10. Nothing against the physical guys with great body but they rarely develop into more than your average grinder (a la Colton Gillies). For every Milan Lucic there's a good 10-20 busts.

I also saw the Habs get beat by the beast of a man that is Jean-Gabriel Pageau.

If the Habs start drafting by needs and for what happened in this year's playoffs, they're buying themselves a ticket to terrible drafting. Those guys won't be on the team for at least 3-4 years. Plenty of time for the team to change. Also, the Habs have players who should be doing this already. Guys like Moen, ARrstrong, and so on, who simply didn't play their role.
Just curious as to how many times you've watched Bernier play at the junior level to come up with an assessment does not have the ":quick release and precise shot" that Mantha has? I played 140 games and about 300 practices with Bernier and I've seen him score 80+ goals live and I can tell you his release and precision were two of his biggest strengths (the others being his hockey sense, soft hands and physical strength). What stopped Bernier from being dominant at the NHL level was lack of confidence and 'swagger'.

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06-12-2013, 10:22 AM
  #24
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[QUOTE=Grant McCagg;67370737]After everything you've read about Mantha and have heard about the depth of this draft...TT shouldn't even hesitate picking him eh? I'm taking it that is based on your thorough scouting of his statistical sheet? :-)

There will undoubtedly be hesitation to draft Mantha if he's there. The team is seeking a combo of skill and grit...for obvious reasons. Did you fail to see the Habs get pushed around against divisional rivals last year, particularly in the first round of the playoffs?

Did you notice that Boston..the grittiest team in the league, is in the Cup finals, and the toughest foe they faced was a gritty Leafs' team that is also in our division? I hope you are aware that starting next season the Habs will have to play divisional rivals, most who are full of grit, in the first rounds of the playoffs. Mantha shied away from the dirty areas versus 5-9 Q leaguers..I shudder to think what he'd do in a playoff series versus Lucic and Chara any time soon. Maybe someday he'll figure it out...but believe me..there will be great hesitation in picking him in the first round.

Mantha is still a great pick at 25. We can add some needed sandpaper and grit with pick number 55, 71 and 85. With our first three picks(25,34,36) I want skill, speed,
size and character. I am confident TT and MB will do the right thing.

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06-12-2013, 10:31 AM
  #25
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Just curious as to how many times you've watched Bernier play at the junior level to come up with an assessment does not have the ":quick release and precise shot" that Mantha has? I played 140 games and about 300 practices with Bernier and I've seen him score 80+ goals live and I can tell you his release and precision were two of his biggest strengths (the others being his hockey sense, soft hands and physical strength). What stopped Bernier from being dominant at the NHL level was lack of confidence and 'swagger'.

Great point Scopehockey...character and mind strength is so important for these young players who are about to start the professional hockey career. The interview process and for the scouts to truly learn to know the mind set of potential draftees is key to having a successful draft. TT knows far more information about each potential draft choice than anyone on this board...including Grant McCragg.

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