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Old
06-19-2013, 03:12 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Bunk Moreland View Post
Flyers maybe in on Ryan like always cause it seems that has been rumored for like 2 years now:



https://twitter.com/tpanotchCSN/stat...28592863481856
Is Philly in on EVERYTHING these days?

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06-19-2013, 03:13 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
No thanks on Vinny, the Isles don't need to get wrapped up in players that are past their prime and injury prone that would take away ice time from top prospects.
And here is the exact reason why we fail. Vinny would be more then serviceable as our 2nd line center even at the ancient age of 33. It would cost nothing to obtain him besides $$, but sure, lets hope that Nelson can lead us there in his rookie season. You know, it's not like we have cap issues that we couldn't possibly sign him for like 2/3 years so the kids can mature properly.

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06-19-2013, 03:14 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
No thanks on Vinny, the Isles don't need to get wrapped up in players that are past their prime and injury prone that would take away ice time from top prospects.
Fair enough.
Reading all these articles about the isles being in the mix for Bernier is getting me excited. I hope it's not all for nothing like when the isles were supposedly seriously in the mix for Kovalchuk a few years back

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06-19-2013, 03:14 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by KingLio21093 View Post
Is Philly in on EVERYTHING these days?
I heard they are looking at bringing back Lindros

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06-19-2013, 03:33 PM
  #30
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And here is the exact reason why we fail. Vinny would be more then serviceable as our 2nd line center even at the ancient age of 33. It would cost nothing to obtain him besides $$, but sure, lets hope that Donovan can lead us there in his rookie season. You know, it's not like we have cap issues that we couldn't possibly sign him for like 2/3 years so the kids can mature properly.
I knew this would be brought up. Vinny is so past his prime and his body is not of the average 33 year old NHLer. Let me guess, you wanted Brad Richards too?

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06-19-2013, 03:37 PM
  #31
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And here is the exact reason why we fail. Vinny would be more then serviceable as our 2nd line center even at the ancient age of 33. It would cost nothing to obtain him besides $$, but sure, lets hope that Donovan can lead us there in his rookie season. You know, it's not like we have cap issues that we couldn't possibly sign him for like 2/3 years so the kids can mature properly.
Over Frans Nielsen? Vinny hasn't been positive in the +/- since his career year where he had 108 points, and he was still on +2. Frans plays in all zones and is good for 40-50 points a year. Is bringing in Vinny for maybe five more goals and assists worth the price tag? No.

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06-19-2013, 03:50 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
Over Frans Nielsen? Vinny hasn't been positive in the +/- since his career year where he had 108 points, and he was still on +2. Frans plays in all zones and is good for 40-50 points a year. Is bringing in Vinny for maybe five more goals and assists worth the price tag? No.
I think Nielsen is more suited as the 3C to be honest. The isles still do need a good 2C....people are hoping Strome can fit that mold, but not in his rookie season. Maybe Vinny could be a good 2 year stop gap at a reasonable price? I mean, you're getting bought out, what leverage do you have to demand a sick payday? As far as his +/- goes, the bolts have really had garbage goaltending for the last few years (save for rolosons epic run in 2011). Also, Snow doesn't hand out long term contracts. The longest he's signed a guy for is...5 years? It's not like I'd want him signed until he was 40. I wouldn't be opposed to getting a 2C this offseason, obviously goaltending is the big thing, and a good D man...but if Nino gets traded away for Bernier, isles really need to address having a solid (and not soft) player to play on JTs wing.
Also, you know the rangers or flyers will be interested....they're pretty much in the mix for anyone who is half decent, which is really ****ing annoying!

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06-19-2013, 03:55 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by MattMartin View Post
And here is the exact reason why we fail. Vinny would be more then serviceable as our 2nd line center even at the ancient age of 33. It would cost nothing to obtain him besides $$, but sure, lets hope that Donovan can lead us there in his rookie season. You know, it's not like we have cap issues that we couldn't possibly sign him for like 2/3 years so the kids can mature properly.
This is what I hate about HF.

The assumption that a rookie = the worst thing in the world.

Why even draft players if you are so afraid of how they will perform in their rookie season? I think people forget that this team is still built for the future. The window just opened, it aint closing anytime soon. Brock Nelson is ready for the NHL. If you think he's your 2C of the future, bring him up. The sooner you get him to the NHL, the sooner he'll adapt to the league and the sooner he'll become that 2C. There's a good chance he'll be producing the same numbers as Vinny in 2 years. The difference is, he'll be making peanuts while Vinny will be getting $5M. Not to mention he'll be in decline-mode and you'll be stuck with him.

The same with Donovan. Sure, maybe he won't be Streit next season. Does that mean we should have signed Streit or someone like him? Chances are, in 2014-15 we'd be wishing we didn't, and that same year Donovan could very well be looking like Keith Yandle part II.

Show some patience. Don't bail on the long term plan. Don't sign some guy just because he's a big name. Especially to fill a position where we have two high end prospects, one or both of which being NHL ready. It's poor asset management.

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06-19-2013, 04:04 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
The same with Donovan. Sure, maybe he won't be Streit next season. Does that mean we should have signed Streit or someone like him? Chances are, in 2014-15 we'd be wishing we didn't, and that same year Donovan could very well be looking like Keith Yandle part II.
Thank you.

This is certainly how I see it going down.

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Old
06-19-2013, 04:11 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
This is what I hate about HF.

The assumption that a rookie = the worst thing in the world.

Why even draft players if you are so afraid of how they will perform in their rookie season? I think people forget that this team is still built for the future. The window just opened, it aint closing anytime soon. Brock Nelson is ready for the NHL. If you think he's your 2C of the future, bring him up. The sooner you get him to the NHL, the sooner he'll adapt to the league and the sooner he'll become that 2C. There's a good chance he'll be producing the same numbers as Vinny in 2 years. The difference is, he'll be making peanuts while Vinny will be getting $5M. Not to mention he'll be in decline-mode and you'll be stuck with him.

The same with Donovan. Sure, maybe he won't be Streit next season. Does that mean we should have signed Streit or someone like him? Chances are, in 2014-15 we'd be wishing we didn't, and that same year Donovan could very well be looking like Keith Yandle part II.

Show some patience. Don't bail on the long term plan. Don't sign some guy just because he's a big name. Especially to fill a position where we have two high end prospects, one or both of which being NHL ready. It's poor asset management.
Can we both agree to say that we do have the cap space and a need for quality UFA's? Would it be so bad to get Vinny for 2 or 3 years? I'm sick of our big off season signings of Boyes,Carkner,Sim, etc etc. Will we be getting Vinny at his prime or close to it? NO! However he would be a upgrade over what we have and it's not like the cap hit will hinder us.

I'm all for seeing the kids, but i'm sure we both know it's gonna take some outside help as well.

I also agree with you on Streit/Donovan, I screwed up and used his name when I meant to put Nelson in there. Streit is much older and again, I'ts not like we can't afford Vinny or we have cap issues at this point.

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06-19-2013, 04:14 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
This is what I hate about HF.

The assumption that a rookie = the worst thing in the world.

Why even draft players if you are so afraid of how they will perform in their rookie season? I think people forget that this team is still built for the future. The window just opened, it aint closing anytime soon. Brock Nelson is ready for the NHL. If you think he's your 2C of the future, bring him up. The sooner you get him to the NHL, the sooner he'll adapt to the league and the sooner he'll become that 2C. There's a good chance he'll be producing the same numbers as Vinny in 2 years. The difference is, he'll be making peanuts while Vinny will be getting $5M. Not to mention he'll be in decline-mode and you'll be stuck with him.

The same with Donovan. Sure, maybe he won't be Streit next season. Does that mean we should have signed Streit or someone like him? Chances are, in 2014-15 we'd be wishing we didn't, and that same year Donovan could very well be looking like Keith Yandle part II.

Show some patience. Don't bail on the long term plan. Don't sign some guy just because he's a big name. Especially to fill a position where we have two high end prospects, one or both of which being NHL ready. It's poor asset management.
The problem is that if you leave these holes in your lineup for the rookies and they don't perform then what?

Our blueline right now is Hamonic, AMac, Visnovsky, Strait, Carkner, Hickey, Donovan. I would much rather bring in another vet, and let Strait, Carkner, Hickey and Donovan fight it out for two spots.

Same up front. Ideally the team brings in a player that can play center or wing. Then, if Nelson is ready you have competition on the wings. If not, you don't have a gaping hole in your lineup. Or, bring in a center and Nelson can play wing for a year. And if he looks great then by January you trade Nielsen or the new player to plug another hole.

The other thing is injuries. If you are giving Donovan a top-6 role, who is your first callup in case of injury? Are we stuck with Finley? Hope De Haan is healthy and ready?

Somehow, I just don't see too many good players being the issue on this team for awhile.

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Old
06-19-2013, 04:21 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
Over Frans Nielsen? Vinny hasn't been positive in the +/- since his career year where he had 108 points, and he was still on +2. Frans plays in all zones and is good for 40-50 points a year. Is bringing in Vinny for maybe five more goals and assists worth the price tag? No.
When I say 2nd line center i'm not comparing Vinny to Franz btw. Franz is NOT a 2nd line center . Franz is a 3rd but since we lack a 2nd line center, that's why he is there. Maybe Vinny isn't the long term answer but, I wouldn't mind seeing him with Bailey and Okposo for a few seasons. I want to see Nelson,Donovan,Strome, and Nino this year, but I think that's too much to ask if we are looking at winning a playoff round. This is JMHO and maybe i'm jaded on the fact that every offseason we pretty much do nothing.

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06-19-2013, 04:24 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
I knew this would be brought up. Vinny is so past his prime and his body is not of the average 33 year old NHLer. Let me guess, you wanted Brad Richards too?
I actually would take Richards, Tort's system killed him and Gaborik. Think he would benefit playing here.

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06-19-2013, 04:48 PM
  #39
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I actually would take Richards, Tort's system killed him and Gaborik. Think he would benefit playing here.
Gaborik would be one thing. Richards can't skate. Whatever line he is on, I feel like he would hold back the wingers.

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Old
06-19-2013, 08:39 PM
  #40
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Did someone say Roszival was a waste of a roster spot?

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06-19-2013, 09:20 PM
  #41
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Taking those numbers with a grain of salt...

It's not like he's some 35 year old Swiss defenseman or something.
but what about his production numbers? they are lack lustre...big time.

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06-19-2013, 09:24 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
This is what I hate about HF.

The assumption that a rookie = the worst thing in the world.

Why even draft players if you are so afraid of how they will perform in their rookie season? I think people forget that this team is still built for the future. The window just opened, it aint closing anytime soon. Brock Nelson is ready for the NHL. If you think he's your 2C of the future, bring him up. The sooner you get him to the NHL, the sooner he'll adapt to the league and the sooner he'll become that 2C. There's a good chance he'll be producing the same numbers as Vinny in 2 years. The difference is, he'll be making peanuts while Vinny will be getting $5M. Not to mention he'll be in decline-mode and you'll be stuck with him.

The same with Donovan. Sure, maybe he won't be Streit next season. Does that mean we should have signed Streit or someone like him? Chances are, in 2014-15 we'd be wishing we didn't, and that same year Donovan could very well be looking like Keith Yandle part II.

Show some patience. Don't bail on the long term plan. Don't sign some guy just because he's a big name. Especially to fill a position where we have two high end prospects, one or both of which being NHL ready. It's poor asset management.
and what i hate about hf is that once a player hits 30, he is over the hill and a waste of a roster spot.

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06-19-2013, 09:24 PM
  #43
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Ugh, i'd be crushed if Bob goes to the KHL. I made a trade halfway through my fantasy season to acquire him dealing an aging Kiprusoff. If Bob goes to the KHL i'll be pissed!!!

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06-19-2013, 09:25 PM
  #44
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I actually would take Richards, Tort's system killed him and Gaborik. Think he would benefit playing here.
I've never thought Brad Richards was anything special and his payday was a benefit of playing with Marty St. Louis and Vinny in his prime. He was never something special in my eyes.

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06-19-2013, 09:27 PM
  #45
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and what i hate about hf is that once a player hits 30, he is over the hill and a waste of a roster spot.
There's already been mention here somewhere of trading Nielsen after next year for draft picks because the 2015 draft looks too good to miss out on.

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06-19-2013, 09:33 PM
  #46
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There's already been mention here somewhere of trading Nielsen after next year for draft picks because the 2015 draft looks too good to miss out on.


i didn't see those. not surprised, though. he is 29, afterall.

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06-20-2013, 03:12 AM
  #47
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I've never thought Brad Richards was anything special and his payday was a benefit of playing with Marty St. Louis and Vinny in his prime. He was never something special in my eyes.
Was still over a PPG player with Dallas. 227 pts in 220 games,

Best career seasons were both 91 points, 1st in 05/06 with Tampa then again 09/10 in Dallas.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=35725


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06-20-2013, 07:21 AM
  #48
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what happens when a rookie is given a chance, and comes up short? you insert another rookie (luckily, we have a decent selection). what happens when you sign a guy like Vinny L, and he comes up short? you are stuck with a long term, expensive contract...

neither scenario is the best. i think we all agree that a 'top quality guy in his prime' is the best solution, but we have to accept that each team is not going to get 3 or 4 of them, in each off-season.

given our scenario, i think i would rather go with a young guy, who has all the tools, but just needs experience, over a guy that is expensive, in decline, and 'may' have chinks in his armor (poor work ethic, poor attitude... ).

if we can't acquire stars in their prime, then i say that we go with some good quality guys, and give the young guys a chance. when the young guys see other guys 'ahead of them', getting good chances to prove themselves, it has to be inspiring. seeing someone 'ahead of them' get a few half-assed chances, and then getting shipped out, has to be disheartening...


Last edited by rikker: 06-20-2013 at 07:29 AM.
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Old
06-20-2013, 09:06 AM
  #49
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and what i hate about hf is that once a player hits 30, he is over the hill and a waste of a roster spot.
Who said that? I said I didn't want to lock into a Lecavalier contract. Especially when we have two high end prospects who could play that position and are both arguably NHL ready. Why spend $4M+ for 3 or 4 years on a guy who clearly isn't what he used to be, when you could invest that money into a top-4 defenseman(which is arguably our biggest need outside of a long-term goaltender)?

It's signing a guy based on 1) his name, and 2) wanting to spend money for the sake of spending it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
There's already been mention here somewhere of trading Nielsen after next year for draft picks because the 2015 draft looks too good to miss out on.
That was me(although I'm pretty sure you knew that), and you took it out of context. The post was about McDavid, and it was under the scenario where Nelson establishes himself as the 2C and Cizikas forces his way up to the 3C. It wasn't about trading Nielsen for the sake of trading him. I'm a big Nielsen fan. If things don't play out that way, keep him.

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06-20-2013, 09:22 AM
  #50
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Did someone say Roszival was a waste of a roster spot?
Yes, signing a 3rd pairing guy to come to a team full of 3rd pairing guys would be a waste. This team needs a top-4 and a PMD. Roszival is none of those things.

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