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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 12.0

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Old
06-20-2013, 11:04 AM
  #251
Drydenwasthebest
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I don't think Beaulieu is quite as close as that. I'd put him behind Tinordi for sure and would like to see him play at least another full year in the AHL. We already have 8 signed defensemen ahead of him (including Tinordi) so it's not a pressing need to rush him into the lineup. We're not hurting for a D, basically.

And similarly, Laughton played a few games in the NHL and AHL last year and almost made the team out of camp...I wouldn't be surprised if he started this year with the Flyers. So we wouldn't be setting ourselves back necessarily, we'd just be setting ourselves up in a different area (an area of need, I'd argue).

Furthermore I think you could make the case that, if we pick a D at 11, he (a) won't be that much further off from the NHL than Beaulieu is now, maybe an extra year of waiting, and (b) could easily wind up as good as or better than Beaulieu.
Beaulieu is going to be an amazing NHL player. I have said this for a couple of years.

However, if Nurse is on the board at #11, and Philly is willing to work something out around Beaulieu and the 11th, I would do it. Nurse will not be as good as Beaulieu offensively, but he will be fantastic defensively and will kick the snot out of people who come too close to Price. If we could trade Beaulieu for the 11th (some kind of "+" on either side), grab Nurse, and then get Morin at #25, you would see a defence in 2 years that could smash the living snot out of people AND still be able to move the puck and put up points.

I love Beaulieu, and would not move him for most things, but for Nurse? I would take the chance.

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06-20-2013, 11:10 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
I would shoot myself in the face if we traded for the 6th pick and took Morin(is this what you're insinuating we do?). I'd even be slightly annoyed if we took him at 25.
Morin would be highway robbery at #25.

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06-20-2013, 11:10 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
I would shoot myself in the face if we traded for the 6th pick and took Morin(is this what you're insinuating we do?). I'd even be slightly annoyed if we took him at 25.
Seth Jones or any of the other Dmen or forwards that are still available, should be interesting and some of those players could have a greater impact soon enough. Possibly a core member of the Habs for the future, not saying Morin ahead of that pack. I would be terribly amiss to pass on all the players available at 6th and pick Morin.

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06-20-2013, 11:12 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
To clarify Jones isn't in the ballpark of those first five forwards as some of us think. I believe that Morin and Seth Jones could be available at the 6th position and that Kristo and Beaulieu could be in a package deal for the 6th OV.
I think you are wrong about Morin and Jones being similar. If Jones and Morin are both available, I take Seth Jones every single day.

The reality is that Jones is a top 3 no matter what. If any of the main 3 guys are to drop down, it will be Drouin due to his lack of size. If Colorado does not take Drouin in the top 3, I can see him dropping to #7. I hope that Montreal is NOT targeting him. If we somehow swing the 6th overall pick, I would take Nurse before I would take Drouin or Morin. Of course, I would want to see who else is ther. Truth be told, I would grab Nichushkin or Barkov before Drouin, as well.

Morin is not a 6th overall pick. I like the kid a ton, and would be ecstatic if we got him, but not at the 6th overall. I think he will go in the 12-16 range. I would be very happy if we moved up into that range to get him as long as it only cost us a pick to do it.

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06-20-2013, 11:14 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
Seth Jones or any of the other Dmen or forwards that are still available, should be interesting and some of those players could have a greater impact soon enough. Possibly a core member of the Habs for the future, not saying Morin ahead of that pack. I would be terribly amiss to pass on all the players available at 6th and pick Morin.
If I were to draft a d-man at #6 and Jones was off the board it would Nurse. No way I'm grabbing Morin that high.

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06-20-2013, 11:17 AM
  #256
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Morin is the 6th best D in this draft at best. I consider him a top 25 player, but hope he's gone before our pick as he'd push someone else down, hopefully a forward.

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06-20-2013, 11:21 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
I think you are wrong about Morin and Jones being similar. If Jones and Morin are both available, I take Seth Jones every single day.

The reality is that Jones is a top 3 no matter what. If any of the main 3 guys are to drop down, it will be Drouin due to his lack of size. If Colorado does not take Drouin in the top 3, I can see him dropping to #7. I hope that Montreal is NOT targeting him. If we somehow swing the 6th overall pick, I would take Nurse before I would take Drouin or Morin. Of course, I would want to see who else is ther. Truth be told, I would grab Nichushkin or Barkov before Drouin, as well.

Morin is not a 6th overall pick. I like the kid a ton, and would be ecstatic if we got him, but not at the 6th overall. I think he will go in the 12-16 range. I would be very happy if we moved up into that range to get him as long as it only cost us a pick to do it.
Boy I sure opened a can of worms with miswording that statement. All the Dmen available at 6th Nurse, Jones would be 1st, Zadorov, Ristolainen get a grip. Then there are a horde of forwards available depending upon whom Bergevin, Dudley, Timmins & Crew can choose from Horvat for one, Wennberg assuming Lindholm is gone, Domi being another lots of choices to think about with ten days to evaluate them.

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06-20-2013, 11:24 AM
  #258
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Nic Petan

Imagine worst case scenario for you, the top 24 guys you want for the Habs go within the top 24 picks.

I've brought up Petan before, but I think he'd be worth the gamble.

I'll get flamed for this, but there's a chance Galchenyuk ends up more of a winger than a center. Petan I think could form a great 1-2 down the middle with Eller as a pure offensive minded playmaker, and allow Galchenyuk to play on the wing, where he can focus on just making creating offense and not faceoffs/defensive play as much.

We can then take a McCarron, Bailey, de la Rose or Dickinson in the second round to address the size thing.

Gallagher-Eller-Galchenyuk
Pacioretty-Petan-Collberg

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06-20-2013, 11:28 AM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Imagine worst case scenario for you, the top 24 guys you want for the Habs go within the top 24 picks.

I've brought up Petan before, but I think he'd be worth the gamble.

I'll get flamed for this, but there's a chance Galchenyuk ends up more of a winger than a center. Petan I think could form a great 1-2 down the middle with Eller as a pure offensive minded playmaker, and allow Galchenyuk to play on the wing, where he can focus on just making creating offense and not faceoffs/defensive play as much.

We can then take a McCarron, Bailey, de la Rose or Dickinson in the second round to address the size thing.

Gallagher-Eller-Galchenyuk
Pacioretty-Petan-Collberg
I'd trade down.

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Old
06-20-2013, 11:34 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Imagine worst case scenario for you, the top 24 guys you want for the Habs go within the top 24 picks.

I've brought up Petan before, but I think he'd be worth the gamble.

I'll get flamed for this, but there's a chance Galchenyuk ends up more of a winger than a center. Petan I think could form a great 1-2 down the middle with Eller as a pure offensive minded playmaker, and allow Galchenyuk to play on the wing, where he can focus on just making creating offense and not faceoffs/defensive play as much.

We can then take a McCarron, Bailey, de la Rose or Dickinson in the second round to address the size thing.

Gallagher-Eller-Galchenyuk
Pacioretty-Petan-Collberg
NOOOOOOOO! We've waited so long for a #1C. I think I'll give him a chance at center before I make an opinion like that. Can't see Eller as purely offensive either. Isn't Petan more offence-oriented?

I like McCarron, Bailey, de la Rose or Dickinson. Wasn't a big fan of Dickinson or McCarron but they've slowly grown on me.

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06-20-2013, 11:34 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I'd trade down.
I think I'd just roll the dice on Petan. He has RNH upside.

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06-20-2013, 11:35 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
NOOOOOOOO! We've waited so long for a #1C. I think I'll give him a chance at center before I make an opinion like that. Can't see Eller as purely offensive either. Isn't Petan more offence-oriented?

I like McCarron, Bailey, de la Rose or Dickinson. Wasn't a big fan of Dickinson or McCarron but they've slowly grown on me.
Sorry, that was meant to read "With (Petan) as a purely offensive minded playmaker" to team with Eller.

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06-20-2013, 11:36 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
I think I'd just roll the dice on Petan. He has RNH upside.
If he had RNH he'd be going in the top 10. He does not have the hands, on ice vision or slipperiness that RNH has.

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06-20-2013, 11:36 AM
  #264
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Imagine worst case scenario for you, the top 24 guys you want for the Habs go within the top 24 picks.

I've brought up Petan before, but I think he'd be worth the gamble.

I'll get flamed for this, but there's a chance Galchenyuk ends up more of a winger than a center. Petan I think could form a great 1-2 down the middle with Eller as a pure offensive minded playmaker, and allow Galchenyuk to play on the wing, where he can focus on just making creating offense and not faceoffs/defensive play as much.

We can then take a McCarron, Bailey, de la Rose or Dickinson in the second round to address the size thing.

Gallagher-Eller-Galchenyuk
Pacioretty-Petan-Collberg
You're going to put the 5'8" Petan as the center and the 6'2" Galchenyuk on the wing? Prepare to be roasted by this board for a decade...

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06-20-2013, 11:38 AM
  #265
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What's Petan final ranking? Isn't he projected in the 2nd round?

I know he played well in the MC and his value went up but any chance he'd be there at 34?

Petan and Poirier at 34-36 would be awesome!

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06-20-2013, 11:40 AM
  #266
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Basically. Mantha is saying he would have scored 5-10 more, the Sabres are saying he would have scored 20 fewer.

Without reading too much into a single quote, it seems to show that Mantha thinks about his play in the context of his own stats, as opposed to the greater good of the team (e.g. Mantha's response was "I would score more" as opposed to "I might score less but I would help the team more").
It's not like I'm Mantha's agent but what can he answer on this one? Guy asks him how many goals he would have scored if he played better defensively. He answered honestly, gave up a number and that's it. He would have answered otherwise, say 30 goals like the scout said. Then we'd say, hey man guy knows he won't score as much if he plays defensive hockey so he only cares about the numbers he puts up on the board.

Mantha is a goal-scorer first-and-foremost. Of course he'll look to score as much as he can. Is anyone going to criticize a defensive-minded forward for coming back in the zone too early to not get caught? What if we asked him, hey if you didn't cheat defensively how many more goals could you have scored?

Besides, if Mantha playing better defensively implies he scores 20 fewer goals, then he's entirely right in playing the way he does. No way he cost his team 20 goals defensively.

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06-20-2013, 11:41 AM
  #267
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Bergevin doesn't see the #Habs moving up very high in the draft from where they sit at 25. Too costly. Could be slight movement up or down.

Amanda Stein ‏@amandacstein 13m
#Habs Marc Bergevin on upcoming draft: "Early seconds, 34 and 36 those are really good picks... they are appealing picks."

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06-20-2013, 11:42 AM
  #268
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Arpon Basu ‏@ArponBasu 30s
Bergevin doesn't see the #Habs moving up very high in the draft from where they sit at 25. Too costly. Could be slight movement up or down.
I just fist pumped at the computer.

Slight movement down, I'll take it if I don't like what's on the board.

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06-20-2013, 11:43 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Arpon Basu ‏@ArponBasu 30s
Bergevin doesn't see the #Habs moving up very high in the draft from where they sit at 25. Too costly. Could be slight movement up or down.
Well there goes my plan to draft Drouin.....

Interesting to consider though.

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06-20-2013, 11:45 AM
  #270
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It's not like I'm Mantha's agent but what can he answer on this one? Guy asks him how many goals he would have scored if he played better defensively. He answered honestly, gave up a number and that's it. He would have answered otherwise, say 30 goals like the scout said. Then we'd say, hey man guy knows he won't score as much if he plays defensive hockey so he only cares about the numbers he puts up on the board.

Mantha is a goal-scorer first-and-foremost. Of course he'll look to score as much as he can. Is anyone going to criticize a defensive-minded forward for coming back in the zone too early to not get caught? What if we asked him, hey if you didn't cheat defensively how many more goals could you have scored?

Besides, if Mantha playing better defensively implies he scores 20 fewer goals, then he's entirely right in playing the way he does. No way he cost his team 20 goals defensively.
I don't think the number he gave interests the scouts so much as the psychology behind Mantha's answer - what way does he think about the game? Which you do get an indication of from what he said, as I wrote in my post.

On the other hand, of course, you could say "who cares?". Do I really care that much about Mantha's defense if I believe he can pot 50 in the NHL like he can in junior? Probably not. But if the Sabres' scouts don't think he can put up 50 in the NHL and they don't see a commitment to him becoming a more-rounded player...they don't have much use for him.

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06-20-2013, 11:49 AM
  #271
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Well there goes my plan to draft Drouin.....

Interesting to consider though.
how do ya think i feel (see username) lol

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06-20-2013, 11:52 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post

Amanda Stein ‏@amandacstein 13m
#Habs Marc Bergevin on upcoming draft: "Early seconds, 34 and 36 those are really good picks... they are appealing picks."
Sounds to me like if we move up at all.. 34 and 36 won't be in play. Which I like. I'd rather have basically 3 1st rounders.

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06-20-2013, 11:52 AM
  #273
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how do ya think i feel (see username) lol
Well there's always that trade proposals thread....


...... basically the draft thread's ugly, inbred, half-sister.





10 days...

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06-20-2013, 11:52 AM
  #274
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Morin would be highway robbery at #25.
really? he's not even on the top 30 from ISS. not disputing he may very well turn out to be an exccellents player and i'd love bergy to take a guy with his size...but i think central scouting has him 23rd for NA skaters doesnt really seem like a stretch for us to nab him at 25


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06-20-2013, 11:55 AM
  #275
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really? he's not even on the top 30 from ISS. not disputing he may very well turn out to be an exccellents player and i'd love bergy to take a guy with his size...but i think central scouting has him 17th for NA players don't they? doesnt really seem like a stretch for us to nab him at 25
The ISS lists mean nothing, for most of the year they didn't have Domi in the top 30. IIRC last year they had Grigorenko above Yakupov for most of the year.

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