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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 12.0

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Old
06-20-2013, 09:10 PM
  #401
habs76sk
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
You can swing for the fences with a big guy as easily as a small one. Petan is not Giroux. If we have a choice between a small 30 goal scorer or a big, hard hitting 25 goal scorer who can fight, I take the need player. If I have the chance to take the small 30 goal scorer or a 3rd line grinder, of course I take the small goal scorer. However, it is unlikely that there are those 30 goal scoring smurfs surrounded by only 3rd line grinder types. Guys being drafted at the #25 position are similar calibre players, differentiated by size and position more than anything else. If we have a chance at Petan or Rychel, I go for Rychel. If we have a choice between Petan and Morin, I go for Morin. Do I KNOW Rychel or Morin will be better than Petan? Nope. I am not the Almighty. However, if I am swinging for the fences, give me the power forward with 30 goal potential or the big hard hitting and fighting defenceman who can clear the crease before the 30 goal potential smurf, because Montreal needs the power forward of defenceman more than the smurf.
This is a poor argument.. You're right about one thing.. petan is not giroux.. but giroux wasn't giroux at this age, hence why we took fischer ahead of him.

The draft is not about "swinging for the fences". If your point is that all things being equal, you take the bigger player, then yes, I agree with you. But it seems to me that you are stating that you will take the bigger player every time at this age regardless of if you think the smaller player might be better. You speak in terms of goals and fights but hockey is not all about these two qualities. There are many other factors that come into play when looking at players and IMO, it is not very often two players are exactly equal. If a small player is even slightly better than the bigger player in the scouting departments eyes, you take him. No questions asked.

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06-20-2013, 10:05 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by habs76sk View Post
This is a poor argument.. You're right about one thing.. petan is not giroux.. but giroux wasn't giroux at this age, hence why we took fischer ahead of him.

The draft is not about "swinging for the fences". If your point is that all things being equal, you take the bigger player, then yes, I agree with you. But it seems to me that you are stating that you will take the bigger player every time at this age regardless of if you think the smaller player might be better. You speak in terms of goals and fights but hockey is not all about these two qualities. There are many other factors that come into play when looking at players and IMO, it is not very often two players are exactly equal. If a small player is even slightly better than the bigger player in the scouting departments eyes, you take him. No questions asked.
What do you mean by if the smaller player is even slightly better, slightly better at what ? So if the smaller player is slightly faster and is a slightly better stickhandler you take him? How many more goals does that create as opposed to the goals the bigger guy creates because he is able to drive to the net to pot rebounds or stand in front of the net and screen the goalie or tip the puck into the net ? Even if the smaller guy is willing to hit if the bigger guy does as well who will have the effect of wearing out the other team more ? No questions asked ? I have lots of them.

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06-20-2013, 10:19 PM
  #403
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What do you mean by if the smaller player is even slightly better, slightly better at what ? So if the smaller player is slightly faster and is a slightly better stickhandler you take him? How many more goals does that create as opposed to the goals the bigger guy creates because he is able to drive to the net to pot rebounds or stand in front of the net and screen the goalie or tip the puck into the net ? Even if the smaller guy is willing to hit if the bigger guy does as well who will have the effect of wearing out the other team more ? No questions asked ? I have lots of them.
Slightly better as in all around better. If the smaller player projects to be the better all around player in TTs mind, then he should be picked. It is very hard to predict who will become the next great "power forward" at this point in a players career. There are far more "Hugh Jessiman's" than "Milan Lucic's" and if you go looking for a Lucic everytime, you may eventually get one, but that player may be the only decent prospect in your prospect pool.

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06-20-2013, 10:33 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by yianik View Post
What do you mean by if the smaller player is even slightly better, slightly better at what ? So if the smaller player is slightly faster and is a slightly better stickhandler you take him? How many more goals does that create as opposed to the goals the bigger guy creates because he is able to drive to the net to pot rebounds or stand in front of the net and screen the goalie or tip the puck into the net ? Even if the smaller guy is willing to hit if the bigger guy does as well who will have the effect of wearing out the other team more ? No questions asked ? I have lots of them.
Further to this point, you are stereotyping small and large players. There are plenty of small players that play big and big players that play small.

Brendan Gallagher, Andrew Shaw, and Brad Marchand all play much bigger than they are. How many goals do they create by driving to the net or standing in front of the net? These guys play much more like powerforwards than the following players..

Nik Andropov, Tomas Vanek, and Viktor Stalberg are all big men but they don't infuse fear into anybody. They don't fight, or drive to the net hard every play. Yet they are still pretty effective players in their own right.

Just because you are big, doesn't mean you will be a "powerforward"

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06-20-2013, 10:35 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by habs76sk View Post
Slightly better as in all around better. If the smaller player projects to be the better all around player in TTs mind, then he should be picked. It is very hard to predict who will become the next great "power forward" at this point in a players career. There are far more "Hugh Jessiman's" than "Milan Lucic's" and if you go looking for a Lucic everytime, you may eventually get one, but that player may be the only decent prospect in your prospect pool.
I agree with you on the futility of trying to draft the next Lucic. Unfortunately he is unique and more unfortunately, he is a Bruin. While I understand what you are saying and while I believe that skating and skill are most important in the quality of the player you have, hockey is a contact sport and so size and physical play are also factors in determining who the better player is. I think a few people on this board, and Im not saying you are one of them, think they are on the high and mighty ground because they think for BPA its all about the beautiful skill a player has and anybody mentioning size and toughness is a neanderthal. This aint ice-dancing baby, its hockey. Having said that, if the smaller player is better overall in terms of what he brings, taking into account the physical aspects, then sure you take him. Ryder versus Gallagher ? You know.

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06-20-2013, 11:00 PM
  #406
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So where we at now? at 25 seed

Rychel or Ristolainen or perhaps Mantha?
I got to be honest, Mantha is kinda of the sexy pick of this year NA class. I kind of like it and a guy who likes to score and at 6'4, it's nice for a change. His backgornd doesn't hurt either.
I see a good chance that one of those guy will be avaible come 25th pick.

just a odd question, would Max Domi slips down to 18-19 pick and if so, do we try to make a move up and get him?

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06-20-2013, 11:09 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
So where we at now? at 25 seed

Rychel or Ristolainen or perhaps Mantha?
I got to be honest, Mantha is kinda of the sexy pick of this year NA class. I kind of like it and a guy who likes to score and at 6'4, it's nice for a change. His backgornd doesn't hurt either.
I see a good chance that one of those guy will be avaible come 25th pick.

just a odd question, would Max Domi slips down to 18-19 pick and if so, do we try to make a move up and get him?
Ristolainen hands down for me. Most of the big D guys we will have a chance to draft are tough, physical but likely limited offense type guys. Ristolainen is big and can hit hard but he also has a good offensive game. Easy answer for me. In terms of Domi, he is good, and as to moving up, maybe, depends on what you give up and whats around, but yes, you would consider doing it.


Last edited by yianik: 06-20-2013 at 11:10 PM. Reason: wrong word
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06-20-2013, 11:23 PM
  #408
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Judge for yourself.



For me, Baptiste is in the mix at 34/36.

Get him at 55 and I'll be over the moon thrilled.
Wow, that dude has nice feet. Now, I say that merely as a casual highlight watcher, but he looks to have uncommon foot agility, both with the puck and without. He may be a bit raw overall, but with those feet, and his young age, he's got something solid to build on. He strikes me as a guy who can create space for himself to develop his game, which on the mental level doesn't look so bad. That's potentially a big separator from prospects who have everything else but the footwork, and lose their advantage because the extra time and space they have in junior to use their big shot or soft hands or big frame steadily dwindles as they progress against fundamentally solid if unspectacular prospects.

I visit this thread more or less regularly but haven't seen much talk about him. Would That or Blind Gardien or another OHL watcher have more insights (of course it wouldn't be bad to hear from turnbuckle either)?

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06-20-2013, 11:35 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
So where we at now? at 25 seed

Rychel or Ristolainen or perhaps Mantha?
I got to be honest, Mantha is kinda of the sexy pick of this year NA class. I kind of like it and a guy who likes to score and at 6'4, it's nice for a change. His backgornd doesn't hurt either.
I see a good chance that one of those guy will be avaible come 25th pick.

just a odd question, would Max Domi slips down to 18-19 pick and if so, do we try to make a move up and get him?
If Ristolainen starts to fall, there will be plenty of suitors. Someone is bound to fall so if it is Domi, one concern you really hear about is his diabetes. Skill wise he is very good and one would have to think he has the diabetes under control. The jury is out on Mantha as to his desire and compete level. At #25 that risk may be mitigated somewhat, but it depends who else is there or offered through trade. There could be major movement with teams jockeying up and down the boards due to the depth this year. It will be fun to watch.

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06-20-2013, 11:35 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by Souffle View Post
Wow, that dude has nice feet. Now, I say that merely as a casual highlight watcher, but he looks to have uncommon foot agility, both with the puck and without. He may be a bit raw overall, but with those feet, and his young age, he's got something solid to build on. He strikes me as a guy who can create space for himself to develop his game, which on the mental level doesn't look so bad. That's potentially a big separator from prospects who have everything else but the footwork, and lose their advantage because the extra time and space they have in junior to use their big shot or soft hands or big frame steadily dwindles as they progress against fundamentally solid if unspectacular prospects.

I visit this thread more or less regularly but haven't seen much talk about him. Would That or Blind Gardien or another OHL watcher have more insights (of course it wouldn't be bad to hear from turnbuckle either)?
Might just be me but his skating style rerminds me of Tomas Kopecky

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06-20-2013, 11:54 PM
  #411
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Here's my Mock Draft 1st and 2nd round (Let me know how it is)

1. Colorado: Nathan Mackinnon
2.Florida: Seth Jones
3. Tampa Bay: Jonathan Drouin
4. Nashville: Valery Nichushkin
5. Carolina: Alexsander Barkov
6. Flames: Sean Monahan
7. Edmonton: Darnell Nurse
8. Sabres: Rasmus Ristolainen
9. Devils: Hunter Shinkaruk
10. Dallas: Ryan Pulock
11. Flyers: Nikita Zadorov
12. Phoenix: Elias Lindholm
13. Winnipeg: Max Domi
14. Columbus: Bo Horvat
15. NY Islanders: Adam Erne
16. Sabres: Ryan Hartman
17. Detroit: Josh Morrissey
18. Ottawa: Fredrik Gauthier
19. Columbus: Kerby Rychel
20. Sharks: Curtis Lazar
21. Toronto: Anthony Mantha
22. Flames: Zack Fucale (G)
23. Washington: Valentin Zykov
24. Vancouver: Morgan Klimchuk
25. Montreal: Alexander Wennberg
26. Ducks: Ian McCoshen
27. Columbus: Robert Hägg
28. Flames: Samuel Morin
29. Dallas: Steve Santini
30. Chicago: Shea Theodore
_________
Round 2.

31. Florida: Ryan Kujawinski
32. Colorado: Mirco Müller
33. Tampa Bay: Chris Bigras
34. Montreal: Nic Petan
35. Carolina: Andre' Burakowsky
36. Montreal: Keaton Thompson
37. Edmonton: Tristan Jarry (G)
38. Buffalo: Justin Bailey
39. New Jersey: Madison Bowey
40. Dallas: William Carrier
41. Flyers: Emile Poirier
42. Phoenix: Anthony Duclair
43. Winnipeg: J.T. Compher
44. Columbus: Pavel Buchnevich
45. Ducks: Jason Dickinson
46. Minnesota: Nick Sørensen
47. Detroit: Jacob de la Rose
48. Blues: Laurent Dauphin
49. Sharks: Conner Hurley
50. Sharks: Will Butcher
51. Toronto: Oliver Bjorkstrand
52. Buffalo: Marc-Olivier Roy
53. Washington: Rinat Valiyev
54. Dallas: Ryan Fitzgerald
55. Montreal: Jordan Subban
56. Edmonton: Zach Natasiuk
57. LA Kings: Eric Roy
58. Sharks: Eric Comrie (G)
59. Winnipeg: Artturi Lehkonen
60. Boston: Tom Vanelli
61. Winnipeg: Brett Pesce

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06-20-2013, 11:55 PM
  #412
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Baptiste doesn't get enough air time here. He'd be a very nice pick up at 55. Good size and skating. Also has solid skills.
Agreed...Baptiste would be a great pick at 55.

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06-20-2013, 11:57 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Judge for yourself.



For me, Baptiste is in the mix at 34/36.

Get him at 55 and I'll be over the moon thrilled.
Jeez louise! What a draft this is going to be! And he's ranked 61st! He'd be a great pick with our 2nd even better with Dallas' third!

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06-21-2013, 12:00 AM
  #414
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At 5"10 Domi is not gona fall to 25, he's the size of Plek. It's not gona be a problem for him he's also very stocky.

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06-21-2013, 12:16 AM
  #415
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Originally Posted by GrindNMuck View Post
Here's my Mock Draft 1st and 2nd round (Let me know how it is)
Well I'd be fist pumping with the pick at 25, then punching my couch with the subsequent picks. Somehow you've managed to make the team smaller and softer after adding more players.

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06-21-2013, 12:22 AM
  #416
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Well I'd be fist pumping with the pick at 25, then punching my couch with the subsequent picks. Somehow you've managed to make the team smaller and softer after adding more players.
I thought and did research on the 25th pick, i thought if they could get him, Him and Collberg could be a Sweden factor on the same line down the road. And for Montreal's 2nd round pick, i had to pick Subban haha

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06-21-2013, 12:23 AM
  #417
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Originally Posted by habshound247 View Post
If Ristolainen starts to fall, there will be plenty of suitors. Someone is bound to fall so if it is Domi, one concern you really hear about is his diabetes.
I'm assuming Domi was at the NHL Combine -- if so, his medical records would have been made available and if it wasn't under control, tests would have revealed it. Reminds of the year Bobby Clark was drafted.

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06-21-2013, 12:30 AM
  #418
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I thought and did research on the 25th pick, i thought if they could get him, Him and Collberg could be a Sweden factor on the same line down the road. And for Montreal's 2nd round pick, i had to pick Subban haha
Everyone would be thrill to pick Wennberg, but I don't like any of your second round picks with the players that are available. With your list I would of taken Burakowski at #34, Bailey at #36 and one of Vanelli/Lehkonen/Sanford at #55.

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06-21-2013, 12:34 AM
  #419
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Everyone would be thrill to pick Wennberg, but I don't like any of your second round picks with the players that are available. With your list I would of taken Burakowski at #34, Bailey at #36 and one of Vanelli/Lehkonen/Sanford at #55.
Thank you for your opinion, i respect it.

It's not my final Mock Draft, i am still working on it, and doing research on some players. Some players on my list will drop or rise, and players that are not on my 1st and 2nd round Mock might be on there soon.

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06-21-2013, 12:36 AM
  #420
Chris Cutter
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Originally Posted by GrindNMuck View Post
Thank you for your opinion, i respect it.

It's not my final Mock Draft, i am still working on it, and doing research on some players. Some players on my list will drop or rise, and players that are not on my 1st and 2nd round Mock might be on there soon.
Well let's just say your list of 2nd rounders coming to MTL isn't very sexy when those players are not what I'd call big

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06-21-2013, 12:45 AM
  #421
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Well let's just say your list of 2nd rounders coming to MTL isn't very sexy when those players are not what I'd call big
What do you mean by 'Big'.? Petan is 5''10 165 pounds, and put up 120 points, if Montreal gets him, that's a steal. And for Subban, Yeah he's small but he is an offensive defensemen, with quick feet and good hockey IQ and im sure his brother will work with him a lot if they are on the same team.

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06-21-2013, 12:51 AM
  #422
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What do you mean by 'Big'.? Petan is 5''10 165 pounds, and put up 120 points, if Montreal gets him, that's a steal. And for Subban, Yeah he's small but he is an offensive defensemen, with quick feet and good hockey IQ and im sure his brother will work with him a lot if they are on the same team.
Subban is a 5 foot 9 defenseman, I don't need to say more. He might become a John Michael Liles but with the amount of Puck Moving Defenseman Montreal have not only in their current line-up (Markov although he doesn't have many years left, his older brother and Diaz) but also in their prospect pool (Beaulieu, Nygren, Bennett) I don't see it as a big deal since we have our fair share of undersized offensive defensemen. Petan is ranked 33rd in North American skaters so he wouldn't really be a steal at where you have him slotted (34th). From what I've learn over the years, points don't tell the whole story when it comes to players playing in the CHL or Corey Locke and his 151 pts would have been the steal of the 2003 draft. Now I usually don't comment on this thread to critisize since I haven't seen most of these prospects play but I don't know, I'd prefer if Timmins and co picked bigger players than the ones you named.

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06-21-2013, 12:53 AM
  #423
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I thought and did research on the 25th pick, i thought if they could get him, Him and Collberg could be a Sweden factor on the same line down the road. And for Montreal's 2nd round pick, i had to pick Subban haha
Don't listen to these small man fearing fools, Wennberg and Petan would be stellar. However I'd definitely take Bowey then at 36 if he were available....

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06-21-2013, 12:54 AM
  #424
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Subban is a 5 foot 9 defenseman, I don't need to say more. He might become a John Michael Liles but with the amount of Puck Moving Defenseman Montreal have not only in their current line-up (Markov although he doesn't have many years left, his older brother and Diaz) but also in their prospect pool (Beaulieu, Nygren, Bennett). Petan is ranked 33rd in North American skaters so he wouldn't really be a steal at where you have him slotted (34th). Now I usually don't comment on this thread to critisize since I haven't seen most of these prospects play but I don't know, I'd prefer if Timmins and co picked bigger players than the ones you named.
It's my make up Mock Draft.. Settle down buddy. I did put Subban pretty high on the draft, but he is good. And im sure he would be good down the road with his brother. And Montreal does have some good future prospects but that doesn't mean Bennett, Nygren will be on the team, they could get traded down the road.

You have to think ahead not next season.

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06-21-2013, 12:55 AM
  #425
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Originally Posted by GrindNMuck View Post
Thank you for your opinion, i respect it.

It's not my final Mock Draft, i am still working on it, and doing research on some players. Some players on my list will drop or rise, and players that are not on my 1st and 2nd round Mock might be on there soon.
Nice job. I think Barkov may go higher than Nickushkin but it is the draft so who knows. I think the #19 Columbus pick could be the spot for a potential move up if someone starts falling that TT likes. I'd love to see Montreal land one of Morrissey, Horvat or Lazar with their 1st pick.

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