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Old
06-23-2013, 10:15 PM
  #176
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Why now? Why not next year, or the year after? What's the hurry in our very recent rebuild?
Easier to quantify and explain. You could name at least a few of the players that will be taken this draft but I doubt you could name the ones for the 2014-2015 or 2015-2016 drafts outside of the likes of McDavid and quantify what they may bring to the table. It's just for discussion, after all.

Edit: Though to note, you might be too far gone for that much discussion if you admit you are wearing rose-tinted glasses.

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06-23-2013, 10:16 PM
  #177
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My confidence is that shot. Him just answering the phone makes me nervous
No GM is perfect but your taking this way out of hand for all we know Feaster might have been right there is no reason to think that he is a moron for listening to offers on one of best pieces to trade.

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06-23-2013, 10:19 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Autograph View Post
Easier to quantify and explain. You could name at least a few of the players that will be taken this draft but I doubt you could name the ones for the 2014-2015 or 2015-2016 drafts outside of the likes of McDavid and quantify what they may bring to the table. It's just for discussion, after all.

Edit: Though to note, you might be too far gone for that much discussion if you admit you are wearing rose-tinted glasses.
I can never name draftees each year. They're just a number until they're not.

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06-23-2013, 10:21 PM
  #179
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No GM is perfect but your taking this way out of hand for all we know Feaster might have been right there is no reason to think that he is a moron for listening to offers on one of best pieces to trade.
I thought the rumor was he was actively shopping? Listening to offers is a lot different than selling...?

Like Calculon said, its not a good time to sell.

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06-23-2013, 10:25 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
I thought the rumor was he was actively shopping? Listening to offers is a lot different than selling...?

Like Calculon said, its not a good time to sell.
Either way he is gathering bids, you called him an idiot for waiting to see what kind of offers there out there. Tell that wasn't completely uncalled for.

If you think Shannan is going to be the guiding hand for a successive team you will be severely disappointed if his suspensions is any indication of how well in touch he is with the game.

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06-23-2013, 10:27 PM
  #181
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Either way he is gathering bids, you called him an idiot for waiting to see what kind of offers there out there. Tell that wasn't completely uncalled for.

If you think Shannan is going to be the guiding hand for a successive team you will be severely disappointed if his suspensions is any indication of how well in touch he is with the game.
No kidding, until he actually trades Cammy you can't call him an idiot for "selling low" as we don't know what the return will be.

If he wasn't listening to offers on a player who wants out, he wouldn't be doing his job.

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06-23-2013, 10:48 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Either way he is gathering bids, you called him an idiot for waiting to see what kind of offers there out there. Tell that wasn't completely uncalled for.

If you think Shannan is going to be the guiding hand for a successive team you will be severely disappointed if his suspensions is any indication of how well in touch he is with the game.
I already said I wouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt. When he was shopping Reghre, Iginla, Bouwmeeser, etc., it turned out to bring in less than expected. I didn't write his bad history for him. Excuse me if I think someone's an idiot for letting a thief hold onto their money BEFORE the thief stole it, and likewise, excuse me for getting upset when I hear Feaster is shopping our best player at inopportune time going into the draft when I know Feaster is trying to move up (which lacks logic based on the numbers) and has a history of getting the lesser deal.

And the same bias can be questioned towards you. You've defended every deal Feaster has made, including the unreasonable justification of the RoR offer. He can do no wrong in your eyes? At least I'm willing to adjust my stance when reason prevails.

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06-23-2013, 10:55 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
I already said I wouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt. When he was shopping Reghre, Iginla, Bouwmeeser, etc., it turned out to bring in less than expected. I didn't write his bad history for him. Excuse me if I think someone's an idiot for letting a thief hold onto their money BEFORE the thief stole it, and likewise, excuse me for getting upset when I hear Feaster is shopping our best player at inopportune time going into the draft when I know Feaster is trying to move up (which lacks logic based on the numbers) and has a history of getting the lesser deal.

And the same bias can be questioned towards you. You've defended every deal Feaster has made, including the unreasonable justification of the RoR offer. He can do no wrong in your eyes? At least I'm willing to adjust my stance when reason prevails.
I make fun of Feaster a fair amount but I have gotten rather sick of the attitude that Feaster cannot do anything right including listen to offers on a player that doesn't want to be here (aka his job).

Stop deflecting and just admit you didn't need to call him out. You expect Shanahan to fix this team even though he has no history of building successful teams.

Feaster has made several mistakes he
1) He didn't contact the NHL about the RFA ruling (I called for his head for this)
2) His calling out Edmonton for rebuilding and then rebuilding.
3) Making the team smaller and softer and then complaining about us being soft.

I do not blame him for the Iginla and Jbo trades as the had NTC and had final say and the offers were all low.


Last edited by MarkGio: 06-23-2013 at 10:59 PM. Reason: No need to insult. I didn't
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06-23-2013, 10:57 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
No kidding, until he actually trades Cammy you can't call him an idiot for "selling low" as we don't know what the return will be.

If he wasn't listening to offers on a player who wants out, he wouldn't be doing his job.
Ok, you're right. He's a pending idiot


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06-23-2013, 11:04 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
I make fun of Feaster a fair amount but I have gotten rather sick of the attitude that Feaster cannot do anything right including listen to offers on a player that doesn't want to be here (aka his job).

Stop deflecting and just admit you didn't need to call him out. You expect Shanahan to fix this team even though he has no history of building successful teams.

Feaster has made several mistakes he
1) He didn't contact the NHL about the RFA ruling (I called for his head for this)
2) His calling out Edmonton for rebuilding and then rebuilding.
3) Making the team smaller and softer and then complaining about us being soft.

I do not blame him for the Iginla and Jbo trades as the had NTC and had final say and the offers were all low.
Actually, I expect anyone with a heartbeat (again) to bring in a GM.

And I won't debate the Iginla and Bouwmeester deals again, and again, and here once more. Its a results business and excuses don't leave (good) legacies, IMO.

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06-23-2013, 11:05 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Ok, you're right. He's a pending idiot

Too funny! I may be a pessimist, but i too shutter to think of all the thing Feaster could and probably will screw up particularly in the next few weeks....Shanny where are you?

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06-23-2013, 11:13 PM
  #187
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Too funny! I may be a pessimist, but i too shutter to think of all the thing Feaster could and probably will screw up particularly in the next few weeks....Shanny where are you?
For the last time when has Shanny ever built a successful team in the NHL or AHL? When has he ever even run a franchise? When was the last time he had to hire a GM? When was the last time he himself was a GM? When was the last time he was trained by a team to take up a management position?

I think you will find his credentials rather nonexistent and yet this is the man who is going not only gut our front office but bring in a new GM to take the reins. If you want to be pessimistic this is the first place you should start as he is nothing but a name and he certainly isn't coming in with a large amount of respect for the way in which he has done his current job.

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06-23-2013, 11:14 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Using Cammy to move up a few spots is foolish, when he could yield a 1st at the deadline.
There was nothing in the quote that indicated Feaster was "trying to move up a few spots". And even if Cammalleri does fetch a 1st at the deadline, it will be a late first and by all accounts a late first next year is equivalent to a mid 2nd this year. So if Cammalleri returned a 2nd and a prospect the deal would actually be pretty close to a deadline return. Also keep in mind that a good deadline return will require Cammalleri to have a good season and stay healthy, with his durability issues the last few years is that a risk worth taking for a marginally better deal?

Also Cammalleri has reportedly asked for a trade. If he doesn't want to be here it is in the best interest of the club to ship him out asap so that his want out attitude doesn't poison the youth.

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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
Moving Cammalleri right now is a big mistake for two reasons; one, he carries a 6M cap hit and 7M in actual salary next season and the Flames most likely aren't going to retain some of the cap hit, and second, the cap is going down next season.

If the Flames insist on getting rid of Cammalleri now while demanding the other team swallow the entire cap hit, the return is going to be meager at best.

If the Flames are smart and actually want maximum value for their assets, they'll hold off until the deadline, where the cap hit will be negligible, the demand much higher than the supply and teams won't have to worry about a falling cap.
On the other side of the coin he has requested a trade, he turned on teammates and an organization once before, we could be better offer moving him now.

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06-23-2013, 11:23 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
There was nothing in the quote that indicated Feaster was "trying to move up a few spots". And even if Cammalleri does fetch a 1st at the deadline, it will be a late first and by all accounts a late first next year is equivalent to a mid 2nd this year. So if Cammalleri returned a 2nd and a prospect the deal would actually be pretty close to a deadline return. Also keep in mind that a good deadline return will require Cammalleri to have a good season and stay healthy, with his durability issues the last few years is that a risk worth taking for a marginally better deal?

Also Cammalleri has reportedly asked for a trade. If he doesn't want to be here it is in the best interest of the club to ship him out asap so that his want out attitude doesn't poison the youth.


On the other side of the coin he has requested a trade, he turned on teammates and an organization once before, we could be better offer moving him now.
Feaster said in his recent pressers that he wants to move up, not down. And what do you mean mid second this year = late first next year?


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06-23-2013, 11:25 PM
  #190
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Feaster said in his recent pressers that he wants to move up, not down.
Yes. But acquiring additional picks is not moving down....

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06-23-2013, 11:32 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
Yes. But acquiring additional picks is not moving down....
Yes... but given that this is all utter speculation, I can only assume he's trying to move up when he says he's trying to move up. If he said he's looking for additional picks, however...

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06-23-2013, 11:41 PM
  #192
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Yes... but given that this is all utter speculation, I can only assume he's trying to move up when he says he's trying to move up. If he said he's looking for additional picks, however...
he also said he wants a physical stay at home defenseman, to add size to RW and he has stated he would like to add a 2nd.

You really need to relax man, your blind hate for Feaster is starting to make you look foolish.

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06-23-2013, 11:44 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
No kidding, until he actually trades Cammy you can't call him an idiot for "selling low" as we don't know what the return will be.

If he wasn't listening to offers on a player who wants out, he wouldn't be doing his job.
Pretty big difference between passively 'listening to offers' and actively 'shopping the player.'

The former suggests the Flames are simply gauging interest but would be content to keep Cammalleri if the offers aren't good enough. The later however, implies the Flames want to move him and will, if they can find a partner even if the return isn't great.

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On the other side of the coin he has requested a trade, he turned on teammates and an organization once before, we could be better offer moving him now.
That would of course depend on the offers and whether or not they feel Cammalleri is the type of player to sulk or become a locker room cancer, to the point where his value at the deadline is detrimentally affected because of a poor season.

So the question becomes, is a healthy Cammalleri at a 6M cap hit (7M in real salary) worth more to teams in a falling cap environment than a pouting Cammalleri at the deadline with a comparatively paltry cap hit.

I can't speak for the Flames' methods, but if they were smart and interested in maximizing asset value, they'd establish exactly what they want in return if they're trading Cammalleri; something they would be happy with regardless of when the trade was made. If a team is willing to meet that criteria now, then they're free to make the move. If however no team comes close, then they'd be better off waiting until the deadline to see if the offers improve.

Regardless, I don't believe keeping an unhappy Cammalleri for six months would adversely affect prospect development, at least not permanently.

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06-24-2013, 12:00 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
he also said he wants a physical stay at home defenseman, to add size to RW and he has stated he would like to add a 2nd.

You really need to relax man, your blind hate for Feaster is starting to make you look foolish.
I don't hate Feaster, I just have no confidence in him. I would absolutely love him if he managed the Oilers

I think he said twice now that he wants to move up. He thinks it drops off after 3, and I even heard he offered all picks to Colorado for the 1st. I'm just putting the pieces together.

Could he be trading our entire roster for a ice cream sandwich? Yes, he very well could be for all we know. I'm just saying, given all of his comments, I see him trying to move up when I hear a trade rumor, and not land an ice cream sandwich. But nothing would surprise me, especially when it comes to ice cream sandwiches.

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06-24-2013, 12:07 AM
  #195
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Pretty big difference between passively 'listening to offers' and actively 'shopping the player.'

The former suggests the Flames are simply gauging interest but would be content to keep Cammalleri if the offers aren't good enough. The later however, implies the Flames want to move him and will, if they can find a partner even if the return isn't great.



That would of course depend on the offers and whether or not they feel Cammalleri is the type of player to sulk or become a locker room cancer, to the point where his value at the deadline is detrimentally affected because of a poor season.

So the question becomes, is a healthy Cammalleri at a 6M cap hit (7M in real salary) worth more to teams in a falling cap environment than a pouting Cammalleri at the deadline with a comparatively paltry cap hit.

I can't speak for the Flames' methods, but if they were smart and interested in maximizing asset value, they'd establish exactly what they want in return if they're trading Cammalleri; something they would be happy with regardless of when the trade was made. If a team is willing to meet that criteria now, then they're free to make the move. If however no team comes close, then they'd be better off waiting until the deadline to see if the offers improve.

Regardless, I don't believe keeping an unhappy Cammalleri for six months would adversely affect prospect development, at least not permanently.
I am saying what matters in the end is the return. Passing judgement on Feaster at this junction for a move that has not been made, a move that may not be made at all, is premature.

And just so its clear where I stand, I lean towards the idea that Feaster will mess this up. He has not yet, however.

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06-24-2013, 12:14 AM
  #196
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I'm not a Filppula fan but if he wants to come here on a reasonable UFA contract - why not. Gives us more options for trades whilst helping our lineup stay competitive. He may fit well into Bob's system.
He doesn't want to go anywhere on a reasonable contract. He wants $5.5m for 7 years (outside of Detroit) or 8 years (Detroit).

Then again, if you compare him with what a guy like Bickell is going to get ($4.5m for a third-line winger) he'll be a god damned steal.

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To me, it seems like he was the weakest link on the second line, playing wing. I don't think that that's really support for him being a first line centre, and I think that if we were going to rely on him to fill that role, we would all be severely disappointed. Hudler was the other winger on that line. Having seen him play first hand last year for us, do we really think Hudler's a top line guy?
Hudler was just outside the top 90 in Pts/60 at ES, and was top 90 (and better than Stamkos, Parise, and Iginla, among others) at Pts/60 on the PP. Maybe if he weren't playing on the second and third line with guys like Cervenka and Comeau, he might put up even BETTER numbers.

As for Filppula, if he can get back to his "verge of breakout" 2009-10 form when he scored 35 points in 55 games between the second and third lines while playing excellent defense, then yes I believe he can be a first-line center.

Long term, I'd put him as a ~60 point, solid two-way center as the lowest scoring linemate in the middle of Baertschi/Filppula/Hudler, with the other two around 70, maybe even getting up towards 80. Sort of like a Kariya/Rucchin/Selanne dynamic but with less speed on the right side and less of a scoring gap between the wingers and the center.

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06-24-2013, 12:17 AM
  #197
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He doesn't want to go anywhere on a reasonable contract. He wants $5.5m for 7 years (outside of Detroit) or 8 years (Detroit).

Then again, if you compare him with what a guy like Bickell is going to get ($4.5m for a third-line winger) he'll be a god damned steal.



Hudler was just outside the top 90 in Pts/60 at ES, and was top 90 (and better than Stamkos, Parise, and Iginla, among others) at Pts/60 on the PP. Maybe if he weren't playing on the second and third line with guys like Cervenka and Comeau, he might put up even BETTER numbers.

As for Filppula, if he can get back to his "verge of breakout" 2009-10 form when he scored 35 points in 55 games between the second and third lines while playing excellent defense, then yes I believe he can be a first-line center.

Long term, I'd put him as a ~60 point, solid two-way center as the lowest scoring linemate in the middle of Baertschi/Filppula/Hudler, with the other two around 70, maybe even getting up towards 80. Sort of like a Kariya/Rucchin/Selanne dynamic but with less speed on the right side and less of a scoring gap between the wingers and the center.
I am thinking the same thing. I am terrified that we might give Filppula a 7-8 year contract but I think a Baertschi - Filppula - Hudler line would surpass expectations.

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06-24-2013, 12:19 AM
  #198
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if feaster uses cammy to move up thats on weisbrod. he will say whether its the right move. and he knows more than any of us


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06-24-2013, 12:39 AM
  #199
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Boy, I missed a lot of fun debate today. Regarding the O'Reilly debacle, it may or may not have been a mistake. Daly's word was taken as gospel, but in reality, the final decision would have been made after an appeal through some sort of legal process. Feaster believed he would win said process, and there was no real follow-up as far as I'm concerned. I still view that as a case of the media making a big deal out of it.

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06-24-2013, 12:48 AM
  #200
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Hudler was just outside the top 90 in Pts/60 at ES, and was top 90 (and better than Stamkos, Parise, and Iginla, among others) at Pts/60 on the PP. Maybe if he weren't playing on the second and third line with guys like Cervenka and Comeau, he might put up even BETTER numbers.
How so? He wouldn't have been getting protected, and likely would have spent more time in his own end chasing the puck. We issue is that we'll be putting three guys on the first line who will all be relying on each other. My impression of a real first-liner is someone who can actually be a difference-maker in his own right, and Filppula and Hudler, for me at least, are more apt to ride the wings of elite players and capitalize on their presence.

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As for Filppula, if he can get back to his "verge of breakout" 2009-10 form when he scored 35 points in 55 games between the second and third lines while playing excellent defense, then yes I believe he can be a first-line center.
35 points in 55 games and good defensive play are second-line traits, both offensively and defensively, in my opinion.

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