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The Workout Thread Part II - I do 3 sets of nutrition

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Old
06-24-2013, 11:43 AM
  #51
Darth Vitale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
What are you looking to strengthen CV? Lats, delts, traps?
Uh. Not sure. Let me consult the back muscle chart:



From this ^, I am guessing Trapeezius and Rhomboid development would help me best, but I don't know exactly. From this chart I'd say my deltoids and latissimus muscles are what got built up the most from doing Iron Gym pull-ups of the standard wide-grip variety. Not much else. More below...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Snooki Stackhouse View Post
Try a closer grip chin up or inverted row.
By inverted row do you mean the deal where you take a dumbbell, place it on the floor, put one shin on a chair, with the other foot on the ground, and pull the dumbell upward, towards your back?


Quote:
Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
What you are describing (front shoulder slump) is more related to your natural body geometry than anything else. The muscles you need to develop to balance this out (to some degree) are your traps and rear delts. You could try Farmers Walks, rear fly's with an exercise band, upright rows (you will need weights and also use caution on these), shrugs, etc.
I thought it was because when you build up your chest, it "pulls" your arms forward a little, if your back muscles are not equally strong". That and I'm sure my posture sucks because I work in front of a computer all day, but I figured strong back muscles would make it much easier to have good posture without thinking about it (which is the part where everyone falls apart because nobody naturally thinks about posture while their doing other stuff or even walking around most of the time).


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06-24-2013, 12:07 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Uh. Not sure. Let me consult the back muscle chart:



From this ^, I am guessing Trapeezius and Rhomboid development would help me best, but I don't know exactly. From this chart I'd say my deltoids and latissimus muscles are what got built up the most from doing Iron Gym pull-ups of the standard variety. Not much else. More below...
Are you doing perfect form pull-ups or are you cheating? You should be extending your arms fully on the negative and as you pull yourself up, bringing your chin above the bar. Doing pull-ups correctly should really help build up your entire upper back.

If you want to really isolate the rhomboid, the best exercise I know of is the reverse fly. I'm assuming you don't have a pec dec, so try "bent over dumbbell reverse flys".

If posture is what you are really worried about, you absolutely need to strengthen your abs. Your abs are what support your spine and if they are weak, it leads to back problems and slumped posture, etc.

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06-24-2013, 12:16 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Are you doing perfect form pull-ups or are you cheating? You should be extending your arms fully on the negative and as you pull yourself up, bringing your chin above the bar. Doing pull-ups correctly should really help build up your entire upper back.

If you want to really isolate the rhomboid, the best exercise I know of is the reverse fly. I'm assuming you don't have a pec dec, so try "bent over dumbbell reverse flys".

If posture is what you are really worried about, you absolutely need to strengthen your abs. Your abs are what support your spine and if they are weak, it leads to back problems and slumped posture, etc.
Form: I usually do two types on the iron gym (to compliment Perfect Push-ups). One is the wide-set grips, palms forward, the other the backward protruding grips, palms inward. I always get full extension on the way down. They just don't seem to add much to my back, only my shoulders and biceps (for the inward facing ones). Maybe I need to do the narrow grip, palms forward variety more?

Rhomboid: I don't really know if that should be a target or not for posture and back strength, sounds like maybe not.

Posture: I do have weaker abs relative to everything else. I started doing good ole fashioned crunches on the floor but not 100% I'm doing those 100% correct. I try not to go all the way down and try to avoid the "rocking back up" thing people do, and I mix straight ahead with left elbow to right knee and vice-versa. I also try to improvise a little and when doing pull-ups I sometimes do an "ab crunch" at the top of the pullup to do a two-in-one type exercise, but no idea if that helps. I assume it does since it always makes my lower core a little sore the next day. However my improv technique probably sucks.

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06-24-2013, 12:25 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
By inverted row do you mean the deal where you take a dumbbell, place it on the floor, put one shin on a chair, with the other foot on the ground, and pull the dumbell upward, towards your back?

I usually do inverted row on a smith machine. It's where you hang from a bar and pull yourself up with your feet remaining on the ground:



I suggested it since i assumed you don't have a heavy enough dumbbell, but if you do, the exercise you indicated is a good one.

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06-24-2013, 12:28 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snooki Stackhouse View Post
I usually do inverted row on a smith machine. It's where you hang from a bar and pull yourself up with your feet remaining on the ground:



I suggested it since i assumed you don't have a heavy enough dumbbell, but if you do, the exercise you indicated is a good one.
I have at my disposal 41 lb water bottles with handles. That should work, right? Unfortuantely as simple as that bar setup is, I don't have a bar anywhere that is low to the ground which would support my weight. Easy enough to make one if I had carpenter skills though. Where's Al Boreland when I need him?

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06-24-2013, 12:33 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Form: I usually do two types on the iron gym (to compliment Perfect Push-ups). One is the wide-set grips, palms forward, the other the backward protruding grips, palms inward. I always get full extension on the way down. They just don't seem to add much to my back, only my shoulders and biceps (for the inward facing ones). Maybe I need to do the narrow grip, palms forward variety more?
If you feel you are pretty advanced and strong enough, trying doing "around the world" and "towel" pull-ups. Just google those terms for examples.

Quote:
Rhomboid: I don't really know if that should be a target or not for posture and back strength, sounds like maybe not.

Posture: I do have weaker abs relative to everything else. I started doing good ole fashioned crunches on the floor but not 100% I'm doing those 100% correct. I try not to go all the way down and try to avoid the "rocking back up" thing people do, and I mix straight ahead with left elbow to right knee and vice-versa. I also try to improvise a little and when doing pull-ups I sometimes do an "ab crunch" at the top of the pullup to do a two-in-one type exercise, but no idea if that helps. I assume it does since it always makes my lower core a little sore the next day. However my improv technique probably sucks.
Crunches are ok, but not worth the time honestly. They found in a few studies that the bicycle crunch is one of the best exercises around for your abs. So I would suggest switching to those.

You can also do some research online and find an ab routine that works best for you. Find one with enough variations such as planks, pulses, leg raises, side jackknives, etc.

Since you are good on the bar, trying hanging leg raises, gorilla crunches, etc. These will really help blast your abs.

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06-24-2013, 01:36 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Losing belly fat depends heavily on gender and genetics, followed by diet, and then what I have found works best is interval training.

Terrapin, have you tried interval running?

Ie,

Warm up jog for 10 minutes
Sprint at 90% capacity for 30s, slow jog at around 50% capacity for 30-60s, rinse and repeat for several sets.

This is a great way to shred more fat in less time.
Sort of. My running days, one of them i'll do say a 5k as fast as I can. The other day I'll do a long run of 4-5 miles. At the end, I'll do 4 or 5 all out sprints (usually 10-15 secs a piece). My workout programs are all high intensity. If it's say chest/shoulders/tri's, i'd do say 8-12 chest presses, 8-12 shoulder presses, and 8-12 tricep extensions, all right in a row. then rest for maybe 20 seconds, then do all 3 again. I'll repeat that for 3 sets. There are usually 3 or 4 'circuits' like that, and each workout begins with core exercises.

One word about nutrition, at least as far as weight and fat loss, your total calorie intake is more important than the type of calorie you're consuming. Figure out your calorie needs, and subtract 500 a day. You should lose 1# a week.

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06-24-2013, 01:39 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
This. Interval training is by far the best way to lose body fat while maintaining muscle mass. It can be done through running, cycling, rowing, weights, etc. Just look at the physiques of track sprinters and track cyclists. The total amount of training time is lower than traditional cardio, but it's also much more painful (especially at first).
This. When I used to go to the gym, I'd see these meatheads that would do a set of curls or something. Then they'd stare at themselves in the mirror for a few minutes, sit down and send a text message, BS with the idiot beside him doing the same thing, etc. Then go back and do another set (of usually 5). These guys will brag about being in the gym for 'hours' a day, yet they really only do a few minutes of actual work. lol

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06-24-2013, 01:46 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
If you feel you are pretty advanced and strong enough, trying doing "around the world" and "towel" pull-ups. Just google those terms for examples.



Crunches are ok, but not worth the time honestly. They found in a few studies that the bicycle crunch is one of the best exercises around for your abs. So I would suggest switching to those.

You can also do some research online and find an ab routine that works best for you. Find one with enough variations such as planks, pulses, leg raises, side jackknives, etc.

Since you are good on the bar, trying hanging leg raises, gorilla crunches, etc. These will really help blast your abs.
Medicine ball pikes are said to be the absolute best ab exercise. I'd suggest him to find 6 of the best exercises (say, pikes, bicycle crunches, leg raises, planks, kettleball swingthroughs, and hanging leg raises), break them into two workouts, and alternate them every day. But, with any workout, you gotta mix up your routines, or your body will get used to them and you'll plateau.

My abs are pretty strong now. If I'd lose this layer of blubber covering them, it would be even better!

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06-24-2013, 03:09 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
Sort of. My running days, one of them i'll do say a 5k as fast as I can. The other day I'll do a long run of 4-5 miles. At the end, I'll do 4 or 5 all out sprints (usually 10-15 secs a piece). My workout programs are all high intensity. If it's say chest/shoulders/tri's, i'd do say 8-12 chest presses, 8-12 shoulder presses, and 8-12 tricep extensions, all right in a row. then rest for maybe 20 seconds, then do all 3 again. I'll repeat that for 3 sets. There are usually 3 or 4 'circuits' like that, and each workout begins with core exercises.

One word about nutrition, at least as far as weight and fat loss, your total calorie intake is more important than the type of calorie you're consuming. Figure out your calorie needs, and subtract 500 a day. You should lose 1# a week.
So when you hit the iron you are doing giant sets?

When I'm doing interval runs, I will run say a mile, then the rest of the way it is all interval training. I do about 60 seconds of sprints with 50 seconds rest, until I'm finished the run. I also change up the trails I run so my body can't adjust to the terrain.

By the end of those runs my lungs are burning. I think the longest I go is maybe 30 minutes, which is more than enough time to shred fat. I know my body and what it can handle. Trying to do more than it can handle is always bad news.

The optimal way I've found to burn fat is hill sprints. I don't currently live near any big hills, but I try to find decent ones. When I was back in Pgh I was a hill running machine. The fat just melts off, but you need to be careful how often you do it. I did it three times a week max.

Do you have any soft hills you can run near you?

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06-24-2013, 04:20 PM
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Thanks for the tip Mr. JiggyFly (and the good news).


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06-24-2013, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
One word about nutrition, at least as far as weight and fat loss, your total calorie intake is more important than the type of calorie you're consuming. Figure out your calorie needs, and subtract 500 a day. You should lose 1# a week.
This is true but I'm speaking about nutrition for long term health, disease prevention, energy, etc. In those instances, the only thing that matters is why type of calorie you are consuming.

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06-24-2013, 05:32 PM
  #63
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I've found that this meal schedule has helped me maintain a pretty constant weight:

Breakfast around 6:30 - 1 egg or 1 breakfast bar
Snack around 10 - Clif Bar or whatever snack someone brought into work
Lunch around 12:30 - Turkey and Ham wrap, granola bar, and yogurt
Dinner around 7 - varies, but it is a small portion

I should probably space the times out better, but this seems to work just fine.

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06-24-2013, 05:53 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
So when you hit the iron you are doing giant sets?

When I'm doing interval runs, I will run say a mile, then the rest of the way it is all interval training. I do about 60 seconds of sprints with 50 seconds rest, until I'm finished the run. I also change up the trails I run so my body can't adjust to the terrain.

By the end of those runs my lungs are burning. I think the longest I go is maybe 30 minutes, which is more than enough time to shred fat. I know my body and what it can handle. Trying to do more than it can handle is always bad news.

The optimal way I've found to burn fat is hill sprints. I don't currently live near any big hills, but I try to find decent ones. When I was back in Pgh I was a hill running machine. The fat just melts off, but you need to be careful how often you do it. I did it three times a week max.

Do you have any soft hills you can run near you?
LOL, i don't last very long doing sprints. After about 15 seconds I"m done! I used to run a lot, but developed that ITBS in my right knee, so i have to kinda take it easy running. It's been great for two months, but Saturday I ran 5 miles that had a lot of hills (first time running hills in years) and my damn knee's acting up again.

Yeah that Supreme 90 program is pretty good. It's very similar to the P90x, except the workouts are only like 45 minutes, as opposed to 60-75. I'm not sure how effective it would be for bulking up or building muscle, but it seems great for burning calories and cutting weight. And I really think all the core 'routines' help with running too.

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06-25-2013, 05:35 AM
  #65
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Good thread, lots of useful info.

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06-25-2013, 03:13 PM
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I haven't heard a conclusive answer to this, but is it better to run before or after lifting? I've heard people suggest that you should do cardio on a seperate day, but I'm trying to get all of my workouts in my limited time at the gym.

I've been doing my lifting, then run for about 2-3 miles.

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06-25-2013, 03:31 PM
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I haven't heard a conclusive answer to this, but is it better to run before or after lifting? I've heard people suggest that you should do cardio on a seperate day, but I'm trying to get all of my workouts in my limited time at the gym.

I've been doing my lifting, then run for about 2-3 miles.
My understanding is that you should do cardio after lifting if you are doing it in the same workout. I don't remember why though. I think it has to do with lifting being more of an anaerobic exercise.

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06-25-2013, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by WickedWrister View Post
I haven't heard a conclusive answer to this, but is it better to run before or after lifting? I've heard people suggest that you should do cardio on a seperate day, but I'm trying to get all of my workouts in my limited time at the gym.

I've been doing my lifting, then run for about 2-3 miles.
It depends on what your goal is; lose weight, build muscle, train for a race, just get into shape, etc.

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06-25-2013, 03:39 PM
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My understanding is that you should do cardio after lifting if you are doing it in the same workout. I don't remember why though. I think it has to do with lifting being more of an anaerobic exercise.
I think the school of thought is, you want the most energy for your 'main' workout. If I were training for a half marathon, and trying to improve my time, I would run first, then lift. If I were trying to build muscle, I'd lift first. If you're trying to lose weight or get into shape, I'd say to probably lift first (assuming you're lifting hard). You'll burn through most of your glycogen stores while lifting, and when you jog after, you should be burning primarily fat. If you ran first, you may not have the muscle glycogen needed to lift effectively.

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06-25-2013, 09:11 PM
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I think the school of thought is, you want the most energy for your 'main' workout. If I were training for a half marathon, and trying to improve my time, I would run first, then lift. If I were trying to build muscle, I'd lift first. If you're trying to lose weight or get into shape, I'd say to probably lift first (assuming you're lifting hard). You'll burn through most of your glycogen stores while lifting, and when you jog after, you should be burning primarily fat. If you ran first, you may not have the muscle glycogen needed to lift effectively.
Posts like this is why this thread is so valuable. I don't even know what questions to ask let alone the terminology of the actual science behind the answers. Thanks for this info and giving me the word 'glycogen' to learn about to better my understanding of this all.

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06-25-2013, 09:51 PM
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I'm a big fan of P90X.

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06-26-2013, 06:06 AM
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Posts like this is why this thread is so valuable. I don't even know what questions to ask let alone the terminology of the actual science behind the answers. Thanks for this info and giving me the word 'glycogen' to learn about to better my understanding of this all.
Thanks. I'm not a trainer or anything. Just an idiot that has way too much time on his hands, and reads a ton articles, message boards, magazines, etc.

Glycogen is the stored form of glucose, and is your body's main source of short term, quick energy. You hear about marathon runners eating spaghetti dinners the night before the race to 'carb load'. Then they eat those gel packs during the race. Once your glycogen stores are used, your body will start using fat (and a little protein) for energy. But since your body's not used to it (most of ours arent'), it's not as effective. You hear about those marathoners 'hitting the wall'.

You burn mainly fat during long, low intensity runs/workouts. You hear about the 'fat burning zone'. But it's kind of a crock.

So again, if you're trying to bulk up, run a fast race time, play a sport, increase your weights or speed, you want to eat or drink something pre workout. If you're trying to lose weight, current research shows that working out on an empty stomach, especially after a 12-14 hour fast (like first thing in morning) is best.

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06-26-2013, 06:07 AM
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I'm a big fan of P90X.
I heard it's really good. It was just too long (and expensive) for me!

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06-26-2013, 10:24 AM
  #74
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Good thread, lots of useful info.
This. The Body Building site is a great place to view workout options, but don't use their forum. A couple of the posters I encountered are quite rude. People here are friendlier, and enjoy hockey. What's not to love?!

Anyways, the last 2 years I was off and on at the gym, and didn't see anyyyyy results. However, this summer I've been going 4 times a week for about 45 minutes about each day to just work on upper body. Disappointing enough, I haven't seen much results in my chest or abs. Although, my arms are noticeably bigger. I'm 6'2 and I weigh 186. I had some love handles and a small gut when I started (I started about 2 months ago and weighed about 195). The only encouraging thing I guess is that my love handles are a bit less noticeable. But, my chest hasn't changed a whole lot. Am I doing something wrong?


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06-26-2013, 10:43 AM
  #75
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This. The Body Building site is a great place to view workout options, but don't use their forum. A couple of the posters I encountered are quite rude. People here are friendlier, and enjoy hockey. What's not to love?!

Anyways, the last 2 years I was off and on at the gym, and didn't see anyyyyy results. However, this summer I've been going 4 times a week for about 45 about each day to just work on upper body. Disappointing enough, I haven't seen much results in my chest or abs. Although, my arms are noticeably bigger. I'm 6'2 and I weigh 186. I had some love handles and a small gut when I started (I started about 2 months ago and weighed about 195). The only encouraging thing I guess is that my love handles are a bit less noticeable. But, my chest hasn't changed a whole lot. Am I doing something wrong?
Well at 6'2, 186lbs, you're pretty lean. As someone else said, working out is only half the battle. We'd need to know what you're eating.

The most basic premise, and one I use for my weight loss/gain patients is this: To lose weight, you need to consume less calories than you burn. To gain weight, you need to consume more calories than you burn. And to maintain, you need to consume the same amount as you burn.

The first thing you need to do is figure out how many calories a day your body needs. There's tons of online TDEE calculators. I use very technical equations in my field, but most of the online ones are close. Be sure to add in your activity factor BTW. Let's just say that you require 2000kcal/day. For you to gain weight (muscle), you should try to eat 2500kcal/day. 3500kcal equals 1lb. So eating 500 more kcal/day over a week, should gain you 1lb per week. It would be helpful to keep a food 'diary', weigh your food, etc so you know just how much you are eating.

I know what you're thinking, 'but i don't want to gain weight!'. Fair enough. But you can't really add muscle without gaining a few lbs. And it won't be as much as you think, because the more lean muscle you have, the more fat you burn to maintain those muscles. So you may gain 10lbs of muscle, but lose 5lbs of fat. Make sense? Also, you want to eat very high protein. For you, probably somewhere around 140-180g/day.

It's hard to really lose fat and gain muscle at the same time, cause they require completely different approaches nutritionally. So I think you could either try cutting a few more lbs to lose your love handles, or you could try bulking, which should still help with the love handles, but should make your chest bigger (thus making your abs look smaller). I'd say for you, eat more, eat more protein, work out harder, and do some HIIT on your non-lifting days.

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