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Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread XXII: Rumours start to heat up.

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06-22-2013, 10:39 PM
  #926
Asher
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Originally Posted by Soli View Post
To me, this screams that they can't find a good trade and we're likely looking at buyout.
It could be. Then again, maybe he's just reporting something that is obvious to us (ie. Horc won't be back next year), but may not be known by fans in general.

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06-22-2013, 10:39 PM
  #927
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I think it's more of the case that he holds more value to the Leafs than he does to any other team. It doesn't help that we have basically nothing in the pipeline in terms of centres.

Basically, I guess I wouldn't be surprised to see him moved if Nonis picks up another centre through free agency/trade. Otherwise, we'd be better off hanging onto him.

Without picking up a centre, our centres look like:

Kadri
Grabovski
Colborne
McClement

If we do pick up a centre, we'll probably need to move a centre in Colborne/Grabovski unless Nonis/Carlyle think it's ok to have McClement play LW more often.
Leafs will be buyers in FA bet they get one of Weiss or Fillpulla

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06-22-2013, 10:39 PM
  #928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soli View Post
To me, this screams that they can't find a good trade and we're likely looking at buyout.
This tactic has been used before to show players with NTCs how limited the market is. Horcoff's doesn't expire until July.

Either way, he clearly hasn't be traded pending the end of the Stanley Cup Final.

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06-22-2013, 10:39 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by doubledown99 View Post
Here is a best guess looking at both the Leafs and Oilers roster.

Peckham + Belanger + Mid round pick

For

Scrivens + Colborne

Neither Leafs player holds much value. Colborne may hold low 2nd rd value (in most years - in a draft as deep as this I don't see anybody willing to move it for him). Scrivens would maybe go for a 4th. Their are plenty goalies that are better available as UFA. Look at last year and goalies like Dan Ellis were signing for cheap all over the place. Oil could just as easily sign a comparable or better goalie for free. He also will be UFA after next season.

Peckham is a tough, gritty , mean dman that is a #6 who is good on PK. Leafs may lose Kostka and Peckham could replace him. Belanger gives them a #4 C that is good on faceoff dot. They will likely lose Bozak who was great on draws. While Belanger is nowhere near as good, he would provide Leafs insurance (in the faceoff dot). He may also be better suited under Carlyle and his system than ours (...Belanger was good in PHX under Tippet).
C'mon, it's not like the Leafs are actively trying to get rid of Scrivens and Colborne. It's more likely that MacT asked the price and Nonis told him what he's looking for. You can't just pawn off your undesirables for our young players with decent potential.

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06-22-2013, 10:42 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by iCanada View Post
I'd do the **** out of that trade.

You guys think that NJD would do something to the effect of:

Larsson+Henrique+2nd round for Gagner+Petry+7th?

Then sign one of Clowe/Horton/Clarkson/Bickell, grab a defenceman from the UFA market ala Scuderi/Ference/Leopold/Lydman/Clitsome, and maybe a fourth line center (Gordon, Smithson, Handzuz, Malholtra, Steckel) and third line agitator type ( LaRose, Lapierre, Raymond, Armstrong... maybe swing a trade for a Clutterbuck).

Hall-Henrique-Yakupov
Horton-RNH-Eberle
Paajarvi-Smith-Greening
Eager-Gordon-Brown

Lydman-Larsson
Smid-Schultz
Fistric-Belov
Really like the looks of that 3rd line

Doubt Horton or Clarkson leave the East, it's either Bickell or Clowe and will have to OVER pay Bad

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06-22-2013, 10:45 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by OILSLICK94 View Post
Leafs will be buyers in FA bet they get one of Weiss or Fillpulla
I doubt Filppula is what Nonis is looking for, but I think Weiss is something most Leafs are hoping for. Should be an interesting summer for both our teams.

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06-22-2013, 10:45 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by Kbs View Post
C'mon, it's not like the Leafs are actively trying to get rid of Scrivens and Colborne. It's more likely that MacT asked the price and Nonis told him what he's looking for. You can't just pawn off your undesirables for our young players with decent potential.
Like I said Scrivens is whatever. MacT probably asked what Nonis wanted and the price was likely low enough for MacT to say yes to. There are plenty of better options in free agency. Why give up anything of value if u can get it for free unless price was low.

Colborne has some potential but their are factors their too. He has to be on NHL roster or has to go on waivers in order to play in AHL. Do you really want to waste a roster spot (is it 23 roster spots?) on him?

Plus Eakins would know if Leafs valued him or not so MacT would have that knowledge when negotiating with Nonis. Oilers won't be over paying IMO

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06-22-2013, 10:48 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
This tactic has been used before to show players with NTCs how limited the market is. Horcoff's doesn't expire until July.

Either way, he clearly hasn't be traded pending the end of the Stanley Cup Final.
IIRC, I thought Horcoff was working with MacT to find a trade. I imagine if the feeling to move on is Horcoff driven or mutual, that the NTC wouldn't be a huge issue.

Unless Horcoff's only suitors are, can you imagine, a worse team than us.

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06-22-2013, 10:51 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by doubledown99 View Post
Like I said Scrivens is whatever. MacT probably asked what Nonis wanted and the price was likely low enough for MacT to say yes to. There are plenty of better options in free agency. Why give up anything of value if u can get it for free unless price was low.

Colborne has some potential but their are factors their too. He has to be on NHL roster or has to go on waivers in order to play in AHL. Do you really want to waste a roster spot (is it 23 roster spots?) on him?

Plus Eakins would know if Leafs valued him or not so MacT would have that knowledge when negotiating with Nonis. Oilers won't be over paying IMO
Scrivens could probably be had for anything, you're right about him. Honestly, I think other teams' fans that want him are going to be a little let down if they do acquire him.

As for Colborne, do you guys really want to waste a roster spot on him? I'd rather have Colborne than Belanger just like I'm assuming you would.

Also, it's not even a case of overpaying, you didn't even give us anything of value. Peckham has no value. Belanger is a scapegoat for you guys and holds no value. And a mid-round pick. Whoopdedoo.

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06-22-2013, 10:55 PM
  #935
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What is the point for Horcoff to work hard and find a trade if they are planning to buy him out anyways?

It's better for Horcoff to sit back, take the buyout &, and then have 29 teams to choose from and find a team willing to sign him on the cheap.

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06-22-2013, 10:57 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
What is the point for Horcoff to work hard and find a trade if they are planning to buy him out anyways?

It's better for Horcoff to sit back, take the buyout &, and then have 29 teams to choose from and find a team willing to sign him on the cheap.
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't believe they'd buy him out. MacT even left the door open about Horcoff returning if a trade can't be made.

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06-22-2013, 11:00 PM
  #937
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Freidmann just said on CBC that Horcoff has been given permission to talk to teams about trading for him
I would imagine the Detroit would be tops on his list. Actually I'm not sure if Holland would target Horcoff. Holland has always had a mancrush on Hemsky and i could see him targeting him to replace either Filppula and or maybe Brunner if he does'nt resign.


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06-22-2013, 11:04 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by Asher View Post
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't believe they'd buy him out. MacT even left the door open about Horcoff returning if a trade can't be made.
And that is the only way it would make sense, assuming MacT and Horcoff have both said they are fine with him coming back.

That being said, the GM came out and said it might be best for both to move on. Regardless of a potential trade, that's not the type of situation I want coming back into the room and I would rather have the leadership of this team handed over to the kids that play hard every night, i.e. Hall, Taylor.

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06-22-2013, 11:09 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by Number1RedWingsFan52 View Post
I would imagine the Detroit would be tops on his list.
I'd imagine as much as well. What would they be willing to give up for him?

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06-22-2013, 11:13 PM
  #940
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Hemsky for Smith? I'm down for that. Smith brings a lot of qualities that we can use in the bottom 6, would be ideally a 4th liner for us. Greening would be good also, I doubt we could get both but it would be a big boost for the bottom 6 if we do get both.

I wonder what is the possible "big" deal that Bluechip is talking about especially without any of the "core" being involved. I would think that big outside of the core (Big 5) would include #7, Gagner, Smid, Petry or even Klefbom.
If Gagner is dealt, I sure hope there is a contingency plan in place. Same with dealing Smid or Petry.
It would be interesting if they dealt Gagner in a package for Yandle which would allow them to deal Smid or Petry in a package for Schenn or Couturier obviously with the Oilers adding in both deals.

I want nothing to do with dealing Klefbom, too much upside there and I would hope that MacT will wait until the draft and see who will be available at 7 before dealing the pick.
Interesting times ahead. Hopefully the Hawks wrap it up on Monday so we can get the festivities underway.

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Old
06-22-2013, 11:14 PM
  #941
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Scrivens could probably be had for anything, you're right about him. Honestly, I think other teams' fans that want him are going to be a little let down if they do acquire him.

As for Colborne, do you guys really want to waste a roster spot on him? I'd rather have Colborne than Belanger just like I'm assuming you would.

Also, it's not even a case of overpaying, you didn't even give us anything of value. Peckham has no value. Belanger is a scapegoat for you guys and holds no value. And a mid-round pick. Whoopdedoo.
Hey KBS maybe you are right and Colborne has value and goes for way more than I have indicated.

I personally don't like the guy and don't see him amounting to much. Ive seen him play since he was with Camrose Kodiaks (actually seen him play live numerous times and he hasnt improved much to the project he was then). Has same deficiencies he had then. I hate that he's not gritty. I hate that he is lazy at times. I hate his board play. I don't think he is good enough for the top 6 (where I think his skill set and strengths are suited for if he was better). I don't think he has the attributes for a bottom six role. So he is a tweener. A #5 C that could fill in for a handful of games but much more and he gets exposed and taken advantage of.

I hope the Oilers don't trade for him but am bracing myself that we will based on the rumors. I hope to god we don't give up much but I guess we will find out soon enough.

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06-22-2013, 11:16 PM
  #942
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I'd imagine as much as well. What would they be willing to give up for him?
Not sure what Edmonton would want, I would be happy to include either one of Coloaiacovo and or Quincey as i dont see much of a future for either one. I could see one of Emmerton and Eaves being expendable as well as we will have way to many forwards once there all signed. I personally would do Quincey+pick for both Horcoff and Hemsky.

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06-22-2013, 11:19 PM
  #943
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Hey KBS maybe you are right and Colborne has value and goes for way more than I have indicated.

I personally don't like the guy and don't see him amounting to much. Ive seen him play since he was with Camrose Kodiaks (actually seen him play live numerous times and he hasnt improved much to the project he was then). Has same deficiencies he had then. I hate that he's not gritty. I hate that he is lazy at times. I hate his board play. I don't think he is good enough for the top 6 (where I think his skill set and strengths are suited for if he was better). I don't think he has the attributes for a bottom six role. So he is a tweener. A #5 C that could fill in for a handful of games but much more and he gets exposed and taken advantage of.

I hope the Oilers don't trade for him but am bracing myself that we will based on the rumors. I hope to god we don't give up much but I guess we will find out soon enough.
I've got no problem with where you're coming from, and I even mentioned in this thread that I think Colborne holds more value to the Leafs than any other team. Even then though, I don't think you really believe that MacT would be acquiring him because he views him as a fringe player and someone who'll amount to nothing. He'll be acquiring him because he thinks (or he got a recommendation from Eakins) that Colborne could still amount to something. That's partially why I think your proposal was a lowball.

You can have Scrivens for a pick though assuming Nonis gets this illusive veteran backup he keeps mentioning.

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06-22-2013, 11:25 PM
  #944
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Originally Posted by Soli View Post
IIRC, I thought Horcoff was working with MacT to find a trade. I imagine if the feeling to move on is Horcoff driven or mutual, that the NTC wouldn't be a huge issue.

Unless Horcoff's only suitors are, can you imagine, a worse team than us.
Supposedly Horcoff told the Oilers he wasn't interested in any non-contending teams. Given most contending teams don't have room for his contract, and if they do, didn't get to be contenders by taking bad contracts like Horcoff's, it's likely that the constraints are putting a damper on the proceedings.

Horcoff has the leverage here, as forcing the Oilers to buy him out by limiting the trading partners helps him go to a team he wants to play for just as effectively as his NMC does.

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06-22-2013, 11:27 PM
  #945
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Why is Smith limited to the 4th line? Could he not be our 3rd line centre next season? I haven't watched much of him, so I am curious.

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06-22-2013, 11:29 PM
  #946
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Not sure what Edmonton would want, I would be happy to include either one of Coloaiacovo and or Quincey as i dont see much of a future for either one. I could see one of Emmerton and Eaves being expendable as well as we will have way to many forwards once there all signed. I personally would do Quincey+pick for both Horcoff and Hemsky.
I thought Quincey was a pretty good player. I'm surprised you want to give him up so easily.

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06-22-2013, 11:30 PM
  #947
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Why is Smith limited to the 4th line? Could he not be our 3rd line centre next season? I haven't watched much of him, so I am curious.
The Oilers have no 3rd line, so if they do acquire him, it won't be for the 4th line center role which can be filled with any run of the mill cheap vet.

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06-22-2013, 11:31 PM
  #948
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Horcoff and his agent should not cooperate and force a buy-out. The player comes out ahead financially and controls (based on demand) where he goes. The Oilers will have to take back a bad contract in return in any deal.

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06-22-2013, 11:31 PM
  #949
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I am aware the Oilers are without a 3rd line centre, but I have read his name being placed on the 4th line.

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06-22-2013, 11:31 PM
  #950
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Supposedly Horcoff told the Oilers he wasn't interested in any non-contending teams. Given most contending teams don't have room for his contract, and if they do, didn't get to be contenders by taking bad contracts like Horcoff's, it's likely that the constraints are putting a damper on the proceedings.

Horcoff has the leverage here, as forcing the Oilers to buy him out by limiting the trading partners helps him go to a team he wants to play for just as effectively as his NMC does.
If he's really doing that, I'd just waive him and deal with the cap constraint for an extra year to **** him over

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