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Something brewing between Maple Leafs and Oilers?

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Old
06-20-2013, 12:52 PM
  #226
Alchemy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Gardiner + Toronto's 1st and the rights to Tyler Bozak to Edmonton for Edmonton's 1st and Shawn Horcoff.
Not sure if this is serious.

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Old
06-20-2013, 12:55 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
???? Seriously??? It's four freaking spots. You're not talking about dropping from the 7th spot to the 21st spot (or wherever the Leafs are picking). It's four spots and a high 3rd is more than fair. The difference between 7th and 11th isn't worth much more than that. As for an actual roster player worth that difference, you'd be looking at a 4th liner or 7th dman, not anything exciting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WG View Post
The going rate to trade up in the 1st round is a second based on recent draft history (where only picks are being dealt):

2012: Buffalo gets #14, Calgary gets #21, #42
2011: Toronto gets #22, Anaheim gets #30, #39
2010: LA gets #15, Florida gets #19, #59
2010: Montreal gets #22, #113 Phoenix gets #27, #57

And while these moves trade up by 4 spots or more, the value going 11 to 7 trumps moving up 6 or 7 spots to get to the middle of the round.
Buffalo counters and says to Edmonton we will give you our 3rd to go from 8 to 7.....Edmonton takes Buffalo's offer.

Based on draft value charts you need to give up a 2nd at least to move up 3 or 4 spots in the top part of the 1st round. 3rd alone doesnt do it.

Edmonton is in a strong spot if it happens you have 6 forwards and seth are drafted 1-7 and the teams want one of those 6 forwards.

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Old
06-20-2013, 12:56 PM
  #228
GordieHoweHatTrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SephF View Post
Go onto HF Leafs and look at their trade proposal thread, there are people in there that are saying stuff like "call me crazy but I see Gardiner as another Karlsson"

then someones like

"nah not Karlsson, maybe more of a Letang or a Pietroangelo".

It's pretty obvious that Leafs fans value Gardiner EXTREMELY highly.
Jake Gardiner's name should be uttered in the same league of player's as Cam Fowler. If you value Fowler, you should value Gardiner the same way. He's a phenomenal talent and his only shortfall, defensive zone coverage, can be taught. He's already shown flashes of competence defensively during the playoffs.

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Old
06-20-2013, 12:57 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Hoover View Post
I made it clear that there is no question that Schultz will be a better player than Franson. All I'm saying is for the 2013-14 season Franson would be either your best or second best D. Why are you so adamant on the idea that only goals are valuable from D? A lot of Franson's assist aren't just phantom 10 foot passes to Kessel, he creates offence with his vision.

Franson has a unique ability to take a half slap shot that has the velocity of a normal slap shot but is extremely accurate. Because of this he is able to get shots through traffic and on net very frequently. Franson often shoots low and at goalies pads to create rebounds. This is another reason why he doesn't score many goals but gets a lot of points.


Look at this pass.


He's also turned into a very good open ice hitter learning when to pick his spots but not being reckless.
Look man, I'm not decrying Franson here.
All I've said the whole time is that Franson is a 5/6 Dman who's GREAT on the PP, for all the above reasons and youtube clips you just posted.

I don't think you'll find very many posters here who are comfortable having Franson shutting down any other teams top players, which is what a top 4 dman is supposed to do. Can Franson log over 22 minutes a night? I don't think so.

Maybe he's turned a corner and is knocking at the door. I'd like to see a full season and more than 7 play off games to buy what you're selling though.

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Old
06-20-2013, 12:58 PM
  #230
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If people are bored at work, dont know if its been posted

Heres some more musings about the Gardiner + 1st for 7th

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Old
06-20-2013, 12:59 PM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Jake Gardiner's name should be uttered in the same league of player's as Cam Fowler. If you value Fowler, you should value Gardiner the same way. He's a phenomenal talent and his only shortfall, defensive zone coverage, can be taught. He's already shown flashes of competence defensively during the playoffs.
That's a fair statement and I do value Gardiner and Fowler similarly.

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06-20-2013, 12:59 PM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Look man, I'm not decrying Franson here.
All I've said the whole time is that Franson is a 5/6 Dman who's GREAT on the PP, for all the above reasons and youtube clips you just posted.

I don't think you'll find very many posters here who are comfortable having Franson shutting down any other teams top players, which is what a top 4 dman is supposed to do. Can Franson log over 22 minutes a night? I don't think so.

Maybe he's turned a corner and is knocking at the door. I'd like to see a full season and more than 7 play off games to buy what you're selling though.
Franson played big minutes in the playoffs and I thought he was pretty good. Guy is definitely better than a 5/6 dman. Not sure why people are so dead set on labelling him as 5/6 dman tops..

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Old
06-20-2013, 01:00 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Slatsmsg View Post
It will be Gardiner + Toronto's first for 7th overall, book it
it takes more than just Gardiner to get 7th overall in this draft.

It would be Gardiner + 21st for 7th or Gardiner+ Grabo+ #21 for 7th + Gagner+ something small

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Old
06-20-2013, 01:02 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Brutal. Once Horcoff is moved that leaves Belanger as our #2C.
And what, McT can't pick up a different C for some reason? Only allowed so many moves in an offseason?

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06-20-2013, 01:03 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilTheThrillKessel View Post
Franson played big minutes in the playoffs and I thought he was pretty good. Guy is definitely better than a 5/6 dman. Not sure why people are so dead set on labelling him as 5/6 dman tops..
I'm labeling him as such because that's how I view him right now.
I also said I'm willing to admit he's developed enough to play in a good D's top 4, but I want to see him do it for more than a few months and 7 play off games before I believe it.

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Old
06-20-2013, 01:03 PM
  #236
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I'm loosing it over the fact Toronto fans wanna ship out Franson and Gardiner. Probably our only 2 bright spots on Defence this season (Okay, Fraser was somewhat shiny). Christ people, how are we ever supposed to get better if we keep trading away our assets. Keep these guys and let them GROW.

F^&* the 7th overall pick.

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Old
06-20-2013, 01:03 PM
  #237
s7ark
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Originally Posted by ponokanocker View Post
And what, McT can't pick up a different C for some reason? Only allowed so many moves in an offseason?
Like who? Teams don't seem to trade top 6 Cs all that often.

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Old
06-20-2013, 01:04 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by jughead42 View Post
If MacTavish is even half serious about fixing the mess in Edmonton he's going to be after toughness, and he's going to be after defencemen. I think a sweet deal for both clubs would be something like this:

MacLaren
Gunnarsson
Kulemin
Grabovski
1st round pick

for

Eberle
1st round pick


The Leafs move up in the draft to grab a better prospect, and get a pretty good albeit expensive player who might be dynamite riding shotgun for Kadri.

The Oilers add depth up the middle, get a more meat and potatoes winger to replace Eberle, a top 4 defenceman who's still young enough to grow with the core of the team but provide instant credibility (Gunnarsson is a totally underrated defenceman) to the blue line rather than potential alone. In MacLaren they guy some legit toughness, size, and ability to play a role on the team.

If it's not anything as ambitious as this, it's probably something smaller involving former Eakins players like Mark Fraser who's a tough defenceman they could use or Matt Frattin, a big winger they could really use, but not especially tough.
That would be a good deal for Toronto. Unrealistic, though, with the number of players going to Edm compared to To.

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Old
06-20-2013, 01:08 PM
  #239
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Gardiner is an enigma. Tons of skating skill, good at handling/moving the puck but the question is on hockey IQ and toughness. He seems soft but maybe his hockey IQ is good enough? I think it is too early for the Leafs to give up on him.

As for the other scrubs the Leaf fans keep mentioning. IMHO, I don't know why you are so concerned about Franson. Good player, good shot from the point, but not very quick or mobile. He's a 5th/6th dman for a reason. But, if Edm wanted him, why not?

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06-20-2013, 01:08 PM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SephF View Post
Go onto HF Leafs and look at their trade proposal thread, there are people in there that are saying stuff like "call me crazy but I see Gardiner as another Karlsson"

then someones like

"nah not Karlsson, maybe more of a Letang or a Pietroangelo".

It's pretty obvious that Leafs fans value Gardiner EXTREMELY highly.
You obviously don't see the sarcasm

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Old
06-20-2013, 01:09 PM
  #241
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I think Toronto might be best off sending Scrivens to Edmonton, he'd be good under Eakins and have more of an opportunity. He wants to be a #1 or at least push for that and Riemer >>> Dubnyk. I think he should likely be a part of any moving up deal.

But who do the leafs take at #7?

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Old
06-20-2013, 01:11 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by supert View Post
Great because we don't want him . How many Oiler fans do you see wanting that slow moving bonehead head case . He would have to where a slow moving vehicle sign to play in the west . Keep him and his bone headed mistakes away from the Oilers . We are trying to fix are D .
I'm quite aware of the Oilers' philosophy. Keep drafting away. Perhaps another forward to "fix that D".

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Old
06-20-2013, 01:12 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Alexander Baigle View Post
I think Toronto might be best off sending Scrivens to Edmonton, he'd be good under Eakins and have more of an opportunity. He wants to be a #1 or at least push for that and Riemer >>> Dubnyk. I think he should likely be a part of any moving up deal.

But who do the leafs take at #7?
The Oilers aren't trading for a back up goalie with the #7 pick.

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Old
06-20-2013, 01:14 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
The Oilers aren't trading for a back up goalie with the #7 pick.
Yes obviously he meant Scrivens for the 7th straight up. durrrrrrrr

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Old
06-20-2013, 01:19 PM
  #245
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For Oilers fans who consider Gardiner + 21st for 7th realistic, if the situation was reversed would you be willing to give up J. Schultz for the 7th pick?
Obviously the team needs are different, but value-wise the argument is there... Does anyone think Anaheim would give up the Cam Fowler + 26th for the 7th?

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Old
06-20-2013, 01:19 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by Quares27 View Post
Yes obviously he meant Scrivens for the 7th straight up. durrrrrrrr
Where's the rest of the trade proposal then herpdeerrrrrrrrrrrrr

**** off with that ****.

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Old
06-20-2013, 01:19 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by BowDangles View Post
In the video from the OP Kipper states that he doesn't believe that MacT has any interest in dropping below #20 in this years draft..

Because of this I doubt that #7 is at play, maybe it is something based around Gagner, Hemsky or Horcoff?
Not likely. Toronto has no need for any of those players.

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06-20-2013, 01:25 PM
  #248
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Didn't the Oilers have a bunch of trades ready to announce once the lockout ended too?

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Old
06-20-2013, 01:25 PM
  #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Where's the rest of the trade proposal then herpdeerrrrrrrrrrrrr

**** off with that ****.
I absolutely meant that Scrivens should be IN the deal, involved (If you, like, read the post...) If Toronto were just getting the pick straight up, and not simply moving up, I'd assume Gardiner + Scrivens would be the starting point.

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Old
06-20-2013, 01:27 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by veedubn1 View Post
Not likely. Toronto has no need for any of those players.
Yep. The only EDM assets I'd even be interested in are Yakupov or the 7th overall pick.

Not sure we make the greatest trading partners. It seems like EDM needs D, TO has D but needs nothing from EDM besides a pick upgrade.

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