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Old
06-25-2013, 12:53 AM
  #126
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trade gionta for a midd 2nd and be done with it

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06-25-2013, 01:10 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Ryan makes about the same that Gionta does...

Salary is not the problem. Size is.

There's nothing Gionta can do to change his size man. It is what it is. And again, it would be fine except that we're TOO SMALL.
Then get rid of the midgets who aren't scoring 20goals/season.

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06-25-2013, 01:24 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Ryan makes about the same that Gionta does...

Salary is not the problem. Size is.

There's nothing Gionta can do to change his size man. It is what it is. And again, it would be fine except that we're TOO SMALL.
He could have an operation to have longer legs. I've seen it.

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06-25-2013, 09:03 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Ryan makes about the same that Gionta does...

Salary is not the problem. Size is.

There's nothing Gionta can do to change his size man. It is what it is. And again, it would be fine except that we're TOO SMALL.
Ryan hasn't reached his UFA years yet.

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Then get rid of the midgets who aren't scoring 20goals/season.
My point exactly.

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06-25-2013, 09:17 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Then get rid of the midgets who aren't scoring 20goals/season.
Who are they going to trade?

Plecanec isn't going anywhere.
Gallagher isn't going anywhere.

That leaves Gionta and DD. DD just got signed, he's not going anywhere either. Gionta is older, at the end of his deal, easier to trade and has some value.

I mean who else are we going to trade man? DD isn't going to get dealt now.
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He could have an operation to have longer legs. I've seen it.
Great idea!
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Ryan hasn't reached his UFA years yet.
He's signed for the next two seasons.

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06-25-2013, 09:29 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Who are they going to trade?

Plecanec isn't going anywhere.
Gallagher isn't going anywhere.

That leaves Gionta and DD. DD just got signed, he's not going anywhere either. Gionta is older, at the end of his deal, easier to trade and has some value.

I mean who else are we going to trade man? DD isn't going to get dealt now.
Gionta isn't going anywhere. Easy game to play.

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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
He's signed for the next two seasons.
I know that. Still not a UFA. Watch how much he gets on his next contract. That's what I mean. We need to compare apples with apples, guys who have reached the UFA stage, when comparing contracts.

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06-25-2013, 10:48 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post

That leaves Gionta and DD. DD just got signed, he's not going anywhere either. Gionta is older, at the end of his deal, easier to trade and has some value.

I mean who else are we going to trade man? DD isn't going to get dealt now.

Great idea!

He's signed for the next two seasons.
Why do you think DD can't be traded? No NTC, and he was signed to a very cap friendly contract that any team would have signed him to. Put up 60 points but has question marks on size and softness. But still a guy some team looking for an offensive top 9 centre would look at.

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06-25-2013, 11:13 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Then get rid of the midgets who aren't scoring 20goals/season.
They were extended by Derek Zoolander mid-season.

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06-25-2013, 11:20 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Who are they going to trade?

Plecanec isn't going anywhere.
Gallagher isn't going anywhere.

That leaves Gionta and DD. DD just got signed, he's not going anywhere either. Gionta is older, at the end of his deal, easier to trade and has some value.

I mean who else are we going to trade man? DD isn't going to get dealt now.
Jeff Carter signed his massive extension and was traded less than a year later. It wouldn't be the first time that a player is traded shortly after signing. If Bergevin thinks DD needs to go then he will be traded, he's not going to worry about the fact that he just signed his new deal.

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06-25-2013, 12:44 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Gionta isn't going anywhere. Easy game to play.
Sure just ignore all the facts... easy enough.

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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I know that. Still not a UFA. Watch how much he gets on his next contract. That's what I mean. We need to compare apples with apples, guys who have reached the UFA stage, when comparing contracts.
Dude, Gionta's at the end of his career Ryan's coming into his prime. Yeah he'll cost more in two years but so what? He'll be a better player. And the cap has gone down, there are going to be adjustments for this. He's not going to be an 8 million dollar player man.

And if the guy actually steps up and plays like a star for us then PAY HIM. That would be a great problem to have.
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Originally Posted by Burke the Legend View Post
Why do you think DD can't be traded? No NTC, and he was signed to a very cap friendly contract that any team would have signed him to. Put up 60 points but has question marks on size and softness. But still a guy some team looking for an offensive top 9 centre would look at.
He won't be traded because MB just signed him. He's not going anywhere.
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They were extended by Derek Zoolander mid-season.
Exactly.
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
Jeff Carter signed his massive extension and was traded less than a year later. It wouldn't be the first time that a player is traded shortly after signing. If Bergevin thinks DD needs to go then he will be traded, he's not going to worry about the fact that he just signed his new deal.
Not impossible. Just not likely.

Somebody's got to go and Gionta's the most likely. He's also older, has some value and at the end of his deal. Makes sense to deal him.

I have no objection to dealing DD whatsoever. I just don't think this is going to happen when we just signed the guy. I also don't think he would be as valued as Gionta is. Teams aren't going to line up for DD man, even if his contract is reasonable. Actually, I'd prefer it if we could trade BOTH guys.


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Old
06-25-2013, 12:47 PM
  #136
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I'd keep GIonta based on how much he think he is Worth. I think he should get 3 years at 3M$ a pop max. Anymroe then that and I'd let him ride the last season of his contract, then bye bye and good luck.

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06-25-2013, 12:51 PM
  #137
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It's like the Gionta fanboys would prefer a mediocre, frail, unimposing lineup rather than identifying weaknesses and areas to improve.

We have too many smurfs.
Gionta has become injury prone.
0.5ppg is not good enough for a 1st line centre.
He has 1-year left at 5m.

Hopefully he plays less than that in a Habs jersey, but if not, hopefully he doesn't play any more.

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06-25-2013, 12:57 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Not impossible. Just not likely.

Somebody's got to go and Gionta's the most likely. He's also older, has some value and at the end of his deal. Makes sense to deal him.

I have no objection to dealing DD whatsoever. I just don't think this is going to happen when we just signed the guy. I also don't think he would be as valued as Gionta is. Teams aren't going to line up for DD man, even if his contract is reasonable.
And us trading for Ryan is somehow more likely?

The simple fact that you think Gionta has more value than DD should be a sign that DD is the guy we should be dealing away instead of Gionta.

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06-25-2013, 01:02 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
It's like the Gionta fanboys would prefer a mediocre, frail, unimposing lineup rather than identifying weaknesses and areas to improve.

We have too many smurfs.
Gionta has become injury prone.
0.5ppg is not good enough for a 1st line centre.
He has 1-year left at 5m.

Hopefully he plays less than that in a Habs jersey, but if not, hopefully he doesn't play any more.
He's only the 1st line RW because nobody else on the team is better than him at that position. Get the player that's an upgrade first and then make a decision on Gionta's future.

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06-25-2013, 01:04 PM
  #140
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He's only the 1st line RW because nobody else on the team is better than him at that position. Get the player that's an upgrade first and then make a decision on Gionta's future.
His 5m can go straight to Clarkson. If one is so inclined.

Or, y'know, trade him for another player.

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06-25-2013, 01:07 PM
  #141
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And us trading for Ryan is somehow more likely?

The simple fact that you think Gionta has more value than DD should be a sign that DD is the guy we should be dealing away instead of Gionta.
Ryan would be the guy I'd go after for sure. If we can't get him, target somebody else.

All I'm saying is that we have to be actively looking to trade for guys that aren't smurfs. Ryan would be ideal but we never seem to be willing to pay the price for guys like that.

Trading Gionta is not that hard. Finding a RW to replace him who's not a smurf is not that hard. This guy isn't impossible to replace man. We just have to have the will to do it.

What will happen, the specifics of what we could get, the logistics... all that stuff is speculative. What isn't speculative is that we're too small and we need to fix it. That seems to be pretty straight forward. Gionta is the easiest and best one for us to deal, that seems straight forward as well. If we want to start advancing in the playoffs and actually becoming a threat around the league, we've got to get bigger. It's as simple as that. And it doesn't have to be a choice between size OR skill. You can have both. Gionta isn't Gretzky... it's not like we're trying to replace a superstar.

You can come up with all kinds of false objections as to why we can't trade him but we CAN and we SHOULD.

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06-25-2013, 01:43 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Ryan would be the guy I'd go after for sure. If we can't get him, target somebody else.

All I'm saying is that we have to be actively looking to trade for guys that aren't smurfs. Ryan would be ideal but we never seem to be willing to pay the price for guys like that.

Trading Gionta is not that hard. Finding a RW to replace him who's not a smurf is not that hard. This guy isn't impossible to replace man. We just have to have the will to do it.

What will happen, the specifics of what we could get, the logistics... all that stuff is speculative. What isn't speculative is that we're too small and we need to fix it. That seems to be pretty straight forward. Gionta is the easiest and best one for us to deal, that seems straight forward as well. If we want to start advancing in the playoffs and actually becoming a threat around the league, we've got to get bigger. It's as simple as that. And it doesn't have to be a choice between size OR skill. You can have both. Gionta isn't Gretzky... it's not like we're trying to replace a superstar.

You can come up with all kinds of false objections as to why we can't trade him but we CAN and we SHOULD.
And whose to say we haven't been trying to get bigger players that can score? You make it sounds as if it's as simple as making a few phone calls. Guys like Ryan cost an arm and a leg to acquire and even then it's not that easy. How much are you willing to overpay to get a guy like him because Gionta and a pick/prospect isn't going to cut it. Put the shoe on the other foot, if someone calls asking for Pacioretty what will you want in return?

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06-25-2013, 01:52 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Capitaine Gionta View Post
You missed the point. There's nothing quite like seeing Gionta entering the zone full speed on the wing and slapping a puck directly in the goalie's logo.
i kinda like gionta ...but damn that is so true

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06-25-2013, 01:54 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Ryan would be the guy I'd go after for sure. If we can't get him, target somebody else.

All I'm saying is that we have to be actively looking to trade for guys that aren't smurfs. Ryan would be ideal but we never seem to be willing to pay the price for guys like that.

Trading Gionta is not that hard. Finding a RW to replace him who's not a smurf is not that hard. This guy isn't impossible to replace man. We just have to have the will to do it.

What will happen, the specifics of what we could get, the logistics... all that stuff is speculative. What isn't speculative is that we're too small and we need to fix it. That seems to be pretty straight forward. Gionta is the easiest and best one for us to deal, that seems straight forward as well. If we want to start advancing in the playoffs and actually becoming a threat around the league, we've got to get bigger. It's as simple as that. And it doesn't have to be a choice between size OR skill. You can have both. Gionta isn't Gretzky... it's not like we're trying to replace a superstar.

You can come up with all kinds of false objections as to why we can't trade him but we CAN and we SHOULD.
I've seen you say trade Gionta several times. Okay, name me one team that would be willing to take a 34, (turning 35 in January) year old winger coming off two major surgeries?

Add in the fact that the salary cap is coming down. I don't think (at the moment) the prospect of trading Gionta is quite as easy as you may think. If he can stay healthy this year, maybe try and move him at the trade deadline, depending on what position the Habs are sitting.

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06-25-2013, 01:54 PM
  #145
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And whose to say we haven't been trying to get bigger players that can score? You make it sounds as if it's as simple as making a few phone calls. Guys like Ryan cost an arm and a leg to acquire and even then it's not that easy. How much are you willing to overpay to get a guy like him because Gionta and a pick/prospect isn't going to cut it. Put the shoe on the other foot, if someone calls asking for Pacioretty what will you want in return?
Dude, nobody is saying this... why even ask the question? Everyone here is HOPING that's exactly the case.

If Ryan is too expensive, then move on. And who cares about Pacioretty?

Bottom line is that the team needs to get bigger and the only way to do this is to move out some of the smaller guys. You keep saying "well what about DD" to that I say... SURE trade him too. Get rid of both of them if you can. I'm just not going to waste my time talking about a player who just got signed because I know he's not going to be dealt.

Gionta on the other hand, is on the last year of his deal. Makes sense to talk about what to do with him because we're going to have to make a decision one way or the other. And (in my opinion) it makes little sense to hang onto him now.

Its time to close the chapter on Smurf Village and try a different path.
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I've seen you say trade Gionta several times. Okay, name me one team that would be willing to take a 34, (turning 35 in January) year old winger coming off two major surgeries?
Nashville, Columbus... offensively challenged teams. The guy has one year left on his deal, teams can take a flyer on him. Then we have cap space open to add players.

Like I said, Gionta's not a bad player and if our team was bigger it wouldn't be a problem. The problem is our core set of forwards are way too small as a group.
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Add in the fact that the salary cap is coming down. I don't think (at the moment) the prospect of trading Gionta is quite as easy as you may think. If he can stay healthy this year, maybe try and move him at the trade deadline, depending on what position the Habs are sitting.
So on the one hand he's a great player who we shouldn't trade and on the other he's a busted up 34 year old who nobody would want on their roster? Which is it?

Everyone knows what Gionta brings to the table. He wouldn't be hard to move now in the last year of his deal. The returns might not be great, but we're not giving up anything great anyway. What we get in return is cap space and the ability to start getting bigger up front.

Getting bigger has to be done. We can waste another year and try to do it in 2014 but what's the point of that?


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Old
06-25-2013, 02:10 PM
  #146
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Nashville, Columbus... offensively challenged teams. The guy has one year left on his deal, teams can take a flyer on him. Then we have cap space open to add players.
Maybe, but both of those teams have good young players waiting to crack the lineups. As well as internal salary caps. Who's to say that either team would be interested in taking a 5mil chance.

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Like I said, Gionta's not a bad player and if our team was bigger it wouldn't be a problem. The problem is our core set of forwards are way too small as a group.
I like him too, but you can't argue that with his age, and his past two injuries, that he's not a risk. I'm with you on trying to trade him, I just don't think it will be an easy task.

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So on the one hand he's a great player who we shouldn't trade and on the other he's a busted up 34 year old who nobody would want on their roster? Which is it?
I've never said either, I've clearly stated that Gionta will be difficult to move.

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Everyone knows what Gionta brings to the table. He wouldn't be hard to move now in the last year of his deal. The returns might not be great, but we're not giving up anything great anyway. What we get in return is cap space and the ability to start getting bigger up front.

Getting bigger has to be done. We can waste another year and try to do it in 2014 but what's the point of that?
I disagree, Gionta is a year older, and coming off another serious injury. So no, everyone doesn't know what he will bring to the table. I don't think Gionta knows for sure how he's going to bounce back this season.

I agree, we do have to get bigger. But imo we should hang on to Gionta for this season. Either trade him at the deadline, or let him walk at the end of the season.

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06-25-2013, 02:29 PM
  #147
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Maybe, but both of those teams have good young players waiting to crack the lineups. As well as internal salary caps. Who's to say that either team would be interested in taking a 5mil chance.



I like him too, but you can't argue that with his age, and his past two injuries, that he's not a risk. I'm with you on trying to trade him, I just don't think it will be an easy task.



I've never said either, I've clearly stated that Gionta will be difficult to move.



I disagree, Gionta is a year older, and coming off another serious injury. So no, everyone doesn't know what he will bring to the table. I don't think Gionta knows for sure how he's going to bounce back this season.

I agree, we do have to get bigger. But imo we should hang on to Gionta for this season. Either trade him at the deadline, or let him walk at the end of the season.
He had the same injury last year but to a different arm, and he came back just fine this year. Plus he only has 1 year on his deal, it's not a big risk, but with the cap going down, your not going to able to trade Gionta for picks, it's going to be with another contract coming back, something maybe like Gionta to Buffalo for Drew Stafford.

Thing about Gio is he is small but scores dirty goals, looked at all 14 of his goals this year, 11 came from being around the crease, that alone prorates to 19-20 goals from Gionta being a net presences.

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06-25-2013, 02:35 PM
  #148
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Dude, nobody is saying this... why even ask the question? Everyone here is HOPING that's exactly the case.

If Ryan is too expensive, then move on. And who cares about Pacioretty?
In the post I quoted you had just said we have been unwilling to pay the price to get those players. But you're also saying if it's too expensive just move on.

That's EXACTLY what we've been doing. We inquire about these players but the asking price is too much so we move on. If you want to trade for guys like Ryan you have to overpay or get very lucky. You don't seem willing to overpay either so we end up in the same position, not getting anyone.


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Bottom line is that the team needs to get bigger and the only way to do this is to move out some of the smaller guys. You keep saying "well what about DD" to that I say... SURE trade him too. Get rid of both of them if you can. I'm just not going to waste my time talking about a player who just got signed because I know he's not going to be dealt.
You don't get bigger by getting rid of players, you get bigger by getting big players. So go out and get the big players and then decide whose going to leave to make room for him.

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Gionta on the other hand, is on the last year of his deal. Makes sense to talk about what to do with him because we're going to have to make a decision one way or the other. And (in my opinion) it makes little sense to hang onto him now.
So what is your plan exactly? Trade Gionta for picks/prospects, and then what? Hope to land a big UFA? That's seems incredibly shortsighted unless someone is willing to overpay for Gionta right now.

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Getting bigger has to be done. We can waste another year and try to do it in 2014 but what's the point of that?
The point is to get the right player, and he might not be available to us right now. Also a 2nd place finish is hardly a waste, with better goaltending and a bit more luck who knows what could've happened in the playoffs. Not too mention the Gally's, Tinordi, Beaulieu, etc... will all continue to develop. The only guys who are being "wasted" are guys like Markov, Gionta that you want us to trade anyways.

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06-25-2013, 02:35 PM
  #149
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Maybe, but both of those teams have good young players waiting to crack the lineups. As well as internal salary caps. Who's to say that either team would be interested in taking a 5mil chance.
I think Nashville would really want him. It's not important though, some team out there would.

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I like him too, but you can't argue that with his age, and his past two injuries, that he's not a risk. I'm with you on trying to trade him, I just don't think it will be an easy task.

I've never said either, I've clearly stated that Gionta will be difficult to move.

I disagree, Gionta is a year older, and coming off another serious injury. So no, everyone doesn't know what he will bring to the table. I don't think Gionta knows for sure how he's going to bounce back this season.
Everyone knows what they get with Gionta, he's been around forever. I haven't heard this injury is all that serious and unless it's more severe than has been reported, then it's not going to scare anyone off.
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I agree, we do have to get bigger. But imo we should hang on to Gionta for this season. Either trade him at the deadline, or let him walk at the end of the season.
Why hang onto him? We're too small right? So move on. What does hanging onto him do for us? Deal him and replace him with a bigger player. Maybe that player is a little younger, maybe its somebody we take a chance on, maybe it's a package deal for a better player...

No reason not to do it now though. Seriously, I don't want us trading away a captain at the trade deadline. Bring in a new guy, name a captain and move on.

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06-25-2013, 02:37 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
He had the same injury last year but to a different arm, and he came back just fine this year. Plus he only has 1 year on his deal, it's not a big risk, but with the cap going down, your not going to able to trade Gionta for picks, it's going to be with another contract coming back, something maybe like Gionta to Buffalo for Drew Stafford.

This about Gio is he is small but scores dirty goals, looked at all 14 of his goals this year, 11 came from being around the crease, that alone prorates to 19-20 goals from Gionta being a net presences.
True, but he's also a year older. The older you get, the harder it is to come back from these types of injuries. So just because he came back fine this year, doesn't guarantee the same results. As for the trade you suggested, I don't see how it makes sense for Buffalo. As Stafford is 7 years younger. He also makes 1 mil less than Gionta, and is signed for 2 seasons.

I know, I've watched Gionta for years. Being a fellow midget myself, I've always had a ton of respect for what he can do. I just don't think a lower end team would be willing to dish out 5mil for the 19-20 goals you feel he's going to get this year.

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