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Jonathan Bernier Race Down to 3 Teams (TOR, PHI, MIN)

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Old
06-22-2013, 02:12 AM
  #476
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Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
Shame how underrated Bernier is here. It's alright though, whichever team gets him will be singing his praises soon enough, as is the nature of these boards.
just want to see him play more games

he may be underrated, but he doesn't have a huge body of work

he needs to get away from Quick to get playtime.

as for underrating, it's just buying low and overrating your own junk

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06-22-2013, 02:17 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by Creeping Death View Post
Ok awesome, Toronto has more fans. Im sure he would love more signatures, pictures, and fan interaction.

Or... He has been in LA for a few years, and may have made a few friends in the process. Trying to make it some kind of ****swinging contest doesn't change my point. If the entire reason he wants to be traded is to be a #1, going to Toronto may not be a desirable option for him compared to staying in LA. If he is going to be stuck being a number 2, he has a much better chance of at least being a winner in LA compared to Toronto. If he was from Toronto and his gf/wife lived there, I may see your point.
Don't worry, if he lands in Toronto Bernier getting starts won't be an issue

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Old
06-22-2013, 02:33 AM
  #478
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Originally Posted by Kingler View Post
Well, Bernier is our best goalie prospect who management is extremely high on.
Great, keep him.

Quote:
Bernier is a future #1 goalie.
And Zucker is a potential 30 - 50 goal scorer in the NHL.

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Seems to me like the Kings should be the one saying that we are not trading a potential franchise goalie for a potential 2nd line LW?
Franchise? He could be a solid number goaltender or a flop. He really hasn't had a lot time in the NHL. Saying Bernier is a franchise goaltender is like saying Zucker could potentially become a franchise forward.

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Goalie is the most important position on a team and yet many fans feel that anyone with a pad can make a half decent goaltender...
Well, we had luck with Roloson and Fernandez and Backstrom.

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We cannot trade our prospect/draft pick, who btw is even less proven and less accomplished than Bernier, because guys like Zucker will surely be 2nd line LW?
If Zucker busts, he could still become a solid 2nd or 3rd line winger. If Bernier busts? Well, that's a bigger issue. There is a small impact if Zucker busts, huge reward, little risk. Bernier? Huge reward, big risk.

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So your prospect is surefire material and our prospect is not? Bernier has proven he's ready to go, more so than any of the prospects mentioned as part of the package for him...
Yeah but still Bernier hasn't had a ton of workload in the NHL.

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06-22-2013, 02:47 AM
  #479
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So what are the other two teams best offers? I'm pretty
Sure for the leafs it's frattin + scrivens + 3rd/4th
For
Bernier + 4th/5th?
I'm not a NHL 13 guy thinking late picks to balance a trade but, seeing as the kings get two parts they need in the deal, the picks should be a swap where the leafs move back a round or two not lose out on a prospect all together

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Old
06-22-2013, 02:48 AM
  #480
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Minnesota offers at best Cal Clutterbuck or Devin Setoguchi and a mid-round pick (4th/5th). We can't give up much more than that and if we do, we're fools.

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06-22-2013, 02:57 AM
  #481
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Originally Posted by nazembiggs View Post
If leafs acquire Bernier, Riemer's confidence will be shot. There's no way we keep both. If Nonis gets his man Bernier, he will ship out Riemer to recoupe some of the assets lost in the Bernier deal.
How do you know this? If Reimer's confidence is shot from a trade then he's in the wrong business and quite frankly I'd question his character as a professional athlete, you simply just cannot get wrapped up in this sort of thing. Reimer doesn't have the right to own the Leafs net for the rest of his career. As good as Reimer has been to just not expect Nonis to look to add depth to the crease, and get all pissy when a trade is made would speak a lot louder about Reimer then it would about what the Leafs think about him.

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06-22-2013, 03:02 AM
  #482
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If I'm Dean Lombardi this is what I'm asking for...

Min: Coyle + 2013 2nd or Zucker + 2014 1st

Tor: Colborne + #21 or Frattin + 2014 1st

Phi: Either Couturier or Schenn or Read + #11 for JB + 2nd

just sayin these would be my target trades... we'll see if somebody bites.

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06-22-2013, 03:04 AM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Habsrback View Post
For Bernier's good he should land in MIN, as he will get clobbered with shots in Philly and Toronto. Philly needs to strengthen its D more than they need another change of G.
The Leafs give up a lot of shots sure but a lot of them are from the outside, there is a reason why the goaltending numbers were so dramatically different from the Wilson era to the Carlyle era. "He will get clobbered with shots in Philly and Toronto"....yeah just like the rest of the league. Toronto is no different then any other team when it comes to how many shots they give up or the quality. Only difference would be the Boston's Chicago's, LA's etc.

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06-22-2013, 03:10 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by Malakian#13 View Post
If I'm Dean Lombardi this is what I'm asking for...

Min: Coyle + 2013 2nd or Zucker + 2014 1st

Tor: Colborne + #21 or Frattin + 2014 1st

Phi: Either Couturier or Schenn or Read + #11 for JB + 2nd

just sayin these would be my target trades... we'll see if somebody bites.
If you are Dean Lombardi, you are having very short conversations ending with no.

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06-22-2013, 03:14 AM
  #485
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Originally Posted by Malakian#13 View Post
If I'm Dean Lombardi this is what I'm asking for...

Min: Coyle + 2013 2nd or Zucker + 2014 1st .
Minnesota automatically hangs up on Dean and then asks him never to call again.

BTW how about this:

To LA: Matt Frattin, San Jose's 3rd round pick (via Min/Tor) and Toronto's 2nd

To Tor: Cal Clutterbuck, Jonathan Bernier and a conditional from LA

To Minnesota:James Reimer, Jesse Blacker

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06-22-2013, 03:14 AM
  #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlowlyOilersfan View Post
If you are Dean Lombardi, you are having very short conversations ending with no.
I doubt that but I don't have time to argue about something neither you or I know for certain so we will see in the next week or so.

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06-22-2013, 04:00 AM
  #487
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As long as he doesn't go to Toronto I'm happy...

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06-22-2013, 04:05 AM
  #488
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As long as he doesn't go to Toronto I'm happy...
We appreciate your support, Britain.

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06-22-2013, 04:19 AM
  #489
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Originally Posted by thestonedkoala View Post
And Zucker is a potential 30 - 50 goal scorer in the NHL.
NOBODY is a potential 30-50 goal scorer. Maybe Stamkos. But they were saying that about Nugent-Hopkins and Landeskog. Taylor Hall and Seguin haven't cracked 30 let alone 50. Tavares has cracked 30 just once and you're saying Zucker is a potential FIFTY goal scorer?

Good bud in Minnesota, eh?

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Originally Posted by thestonedkoala View Post
Franchise? He could be a solid number goaltender or a flop. He really hasn't had a lot time in the NHL. Saying Bernier is a franchise goaltender is like saying Zucker could potentially become a franchise forward.
Bernier has a better chance of being a franchise goaltender than Zucker does of being "a potential 30-50 goal scorer" - LEts not forget, Lombardi developed and then traded some "back-up" who had a few more games than Bernier under his belt. Calgary sure has done OK with Kipper.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thestonedkoala View Post
Well, we had luck with Roloson and Fernandez and Backstrom.
Roloson had 102 games under his belt with TWO teams before he became the starter in Minnesota. Fernandez had a whopping total of THIRTY THREE NHL games under his belt when Minnesota made him the starter. Backstrom had ZERO NHL experience before coming your starter.

Bad argument, dude.


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Originally Posted by thestonedkoala View Post
If Zucker busts, he could still become a solid 2nd or 3rd line winger.
Just ask Angelo Esposito. I mean, HIS numbers were good, weren't they? Dany Roussin had 113 goals in 2 season in the minors! POTENTIAL 30-50 GOALS A YEAR!!! Um, what NHL team is Dany playing for?


Quote:
Originally Posted by thestonedkoala View Post
If Bernier busts? Well, that's a bigger issue. There is a small impact if Zucker busts, huge reward, little risk. Bernier? Huge reward, big risk.
Quite the opposite.



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Originally Posted by thestonedkoala View Post
Yeah but still Bernier hasn't had a ton of workload in the NHL.
Neither did your previously mentioned 3 starters.

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Old
06-22-2013, 04:37 AM
  #490
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Some people really like Muzzin and his potential. Hell of a shot. Zero brains. I much prefer Martinez, though I won't be crying if Marty is moved for Muzzin to get that #6 spot.

I'd be much more upset to see Ellerby any higher than #8 on our depth charts.
I don't think Muffin will work out as a defenseman...but may as a cheaply converted left wing... It's gotten to a point where I don't want to see any more of his mistakes reach the back of our net... How he got to be a +16 is anyone's guess...

Ellerby...I could sort of live with on the blue line... With the right coaching...he'd do wonders as a stopgap SAH...until one of the kids comes in and makes him expendable...

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06-22-2013, 04:45 AM
  #491
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As long as he doesn't go to Toronto I'm happy...
Sounds good to me. You'll be happy and so will I.

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06-22-2013, 05:59 AM
  #492
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What are Berniers main weaknesses as a goalie? Im just wondering why some people say he has better "upside" over Reimer? And please dont say because he was drafted higher 7 years ago. They have pretty comparable stats, and Reimer plays on the significantly worse team / worse team defensively.

Reimers weaknesses are rebound control, glove hand, and puck handling. What about Bernier?

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06-22-2013, 06:11 AM
  #493
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
What are Berniers main weaknesses as a goalie? Im just wondering why some people say he has better "upside" over Reimer? And please dont say because he was drafted higher 7 years ago. They have pretty comparable stats, and Reimer plays on the significantly worse team / worse team defensively.

Reimers weaknesses are rebound control, glove hand, and puck handling. What about Bernier?
Bernier's only weakness is the shootout. Not kidding.

Here's what I wrote up for a Wild fan asking about him.

Really, really good. He's the type of goalie who will be good for a long time because of the style he plays. He's one of the best fundamental goalies you can see. He's not a butterfly goalie like most NHL goalies nowadays. He's so good at reading shots that he knows when to stand up and make the easier save that way. Good reads, VERY calm in the net, good rebound control. Athletic but obviously nowhere near the athletic level of Quick or Fleury. Not a good puck handler. Knows when to slow down the play and cover a puck. Good glove. Whoever gets him is getting a GREAT goalie. As a goalie myself, Bernier is a guy I love to watch because he's so technically sound.

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06-22-2013, 06:24 AM
  #494
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Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
Bernier's only weakness is the shootout. Not kidding.

Here's what I wrote up for a Wild fan asking about him.

Really, really good. He's the type of goalie who will be good for a long time because of the style he plays. He's one of the best fundamental goalies you can see. He's not a butterfly goalie like most NHL goalies nowadays. He's so good at reading shots that he knows when to stand up and make the easier save that way. Good reads, VERY calm in the net, good rebound control. Athletic but obviously nowhere near the athletic level of Quick or Fleury. Not a good puck handler. Knows when to slow down the play and cover a puck. Good glove. Whoever gets him is getting a GREAT goalie. As a goalie myself, Bernier is a guy I love to watch because he's so technically sound.
But thats one of Torontos biggest weaknesses

Anyways, Id love to add him as a Leafs fan. But it obviously depends on the price. Id prefer to move guys like Frattin/Colborne than move our 1st rounder, unless we're acquiring a 1st rounder in some other move.

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06-22-2013, 06:47 AM
  #495
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
What are Berniers main weaknesses as a goalie? Im just wondering why some people say he has better "upside" over Reimer? And please dont say because he was drafted higher 7 years ago. They have pretty comparable stats, and Reimer plays on the significantly worse team / worse team defensively.

Reimers weaknesses are rebound control, glove hand, and puck handling. What about Bernier?
Shootout, he absolutely sucks at them. Not the best puck handler. Everything he really is pretty good. He like to really good rebound control. People think Berniers is a product of our team defense, but 3 out top six dmen went down and Quick struggled it was Bernier who led the charge for us in the middle of the season. He played great with patched up defense.

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06-22-2013, 07:33 AM
  #496
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I doubt that but I don't have time to argue about something neither you or I know for certain so we will see in the next week or so.
I think you guys are both right, you are right in thinking Dean will ask for that.......he is right thinking GM's will decline those demands.

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06-22-2013, 07:46 AM
  #497
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Originally Posted by Malakian#13 View Post
If I'm Dean Lombardi this is what I'm asking for...

Min: Coyle + 2013 2nd or Zucker + 2014 1st

Tor: Colborne + #21 or Frattin + 2014 1st

Phi: Either Couturier or Schenn or Read + #11 for JB + 2nd

just sayin these would be my target trades... we'll see if somebody bites.

Dean Lombardi must like the sound of dial tones.

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06-22-2013, 07:50 AM
  #498
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Originally Posted by Malakian#13 View Post
If I'm Dean Lombardi this is what I'm asking for...

Min: Coyle + 2013 2nd or Zucker + 2014 1st

Tor: Colborne + #21 or Frattin + 2014 1st

Phi: Either Couturier or Schenn or Read + #11 for JB + 2nd

just sayin these would be my target trades... we'll see if somebody bites.
If you are Dean Lombardi, no trade would ever be completed with you ever.

These are hilarious.

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06-22-2013, 07:58 AM
  #499
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If Toronto was to make the deal how much more would need to be added to get Alec Martinez to come over?

Say:

Frattin + 21st +- ???

Bernier
Amart

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06-22-2013, 08:01 AM
  #500
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Originally Posted by sommervr View Post
If Toronto was to make the deal how much more would need to be added to get Alec Martinez to come over?

Say:

Frattin + 21st +- ???

Bernier
Amart
I'd imagine if Toronto was already offering those pieces LA would move Martinez for the addition of Blacker.

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