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Jonathan Bernier Race Down to 3 Teams (TOR, PHI, MIN)

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Old
06-22-2013, 08:03 AM
  #501
MsMeow
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Originally Posted by RAZZIE King View Post
I don't think Muffin will work out as a defenseman...but may as a cheaply converted left wing... It's gotten to a point where I don't want to see any more of his mistakes reach the back of our net... How he got to be a +16 is anyone's guess...

Ellerby...I could sort of live with on the blue line... With the right coaching...he'd do wonders as a stopgap SAH...until one of the kids comes in and makes him expendable...
It's Muzzin's rookie season for God's sake! He was thrown into the fire because Mitchell, Green and Martinez were out for the bulk of the season.

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06-22-2013, 08:07 AM
  #502
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It's Muzzin's rookie season for God's sake! He was thrown into the fire because Mitchell, Green and Martinez were out for the bulk of the season.
He's very right to be concerned. The issues with Muzzin's game (judgement, hockey IQ, decision making) aren't ones that are real easy to fix. He can still be a decent player if he doesn't question himself, is confident, and moves the puck quick but I'd still much rather have Marty than him.

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06-22-2013, 08:11 AM
  #503
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Bernier's only weakness is the shootout. Not kidding.
Then I don't want the Flyers getting him. Philly already has the worst shootout record in the league since its inception, and watching Bryzgalov in the shootout these past two years has been physically painful.

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06-22-2013, 08:13 AM
  #504
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Then I don't want the Flyers getting him. Philly already has the worst shootout record in the league since its inception, and watching Bryzgalov in the shootout these past two years has been physically painful.
So losing a ****ing useless skills competition that isn't a part of any of the games that matters would deter you from getting a guy who could realistically fix the gaping hole in net you guys have had for YEARS? Got it.

Mike Richards is bad at breakaways. I don't want him on the Kings anymore.

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06-22-2013, 08:14 AM
  #505
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I'd imagine if Toronto was already offering those pieces LA would move Martinez for the addition of Blacker.
I haven't seen Martinez play much out on the left coast. Looking at his usage charts he is easy minutes 3rd pairing but good possession numbers on the best possession team.

Why is he out of favor?

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06-22-2013, 08:16 AM
  #506
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Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
He's very right to be concerned. The issues with Muzzin's game (judgement, hockey IQ, decision making) aren't ones that are real easy to fix. He can still be a decent player if he doesn't question himself, is confident, and moves the puck quick but I'd still much rather have Marty than him.
Kevin Bieksa had similar issues at around the same age. IMO Muzzin wasn't sheltered due to the injuries on D. Heck VV looked A LOT better this year compared to last season. Experience at the NHL level works wonders for confidence

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06-22-2013, 08:17 AM
  #507
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I haven't seen Martinez play much out on the left coast. Looking at his usage charts he is easy minutes 3rd pairing but good possession numbers on the best possession team.

Why is he out of favor?
He struggled this year. This is a what have you done for me lately league and Jake Muzzin came in and scored a bit and now people think that Muzzin stole Martinez' job. The problem comes in we have too many D. MY expectation is we carry 8 D but if that's not in the plans, one of Muzzin, Martinez, or Ellerby need to be moved off the roster. I'd like Ellerby in the AHL and I'd take the risk with him on waivers because even if he gets claimed, we don't lose anything. Mark Morris is A HELL of a developer and could maybe fix Ellerby's game. Maybe. But yeah...someone has to move.

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06-22-2013, 08:19 AM
  #508
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Originally Posted by thestonedkoala View Post
Minnesota automatically hangs up on Dean and then asks him never to call again.

BTW how about this:

To LA: Matt Frattin, San Jose's 3rd round pick (via Min/Tor) and Toronto's 2nd

To Tor: Cal Clutterbuck, Jonathan Bernier and a conditional from LA

To Minnesota:James Reimer, Jesse Blacker
That's a pretty big no from Toronto. I'm not downgrading from Reimer to Bernier for Cal freaking Clutterbuck.

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06-22-2013, 08:19 AM
  #509
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Let's cut the personal attacks out from discussion please. Thank you.

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06-22-2013, 08:22 AM
  #510
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Originally Posted by northernKing View Post
Kevin Bieksa had similar issues at around the same age. IMO Muzzin wasn't sheltered due to the injuries on D. Heck VV looked A LOT better this year compared to last season. Experience at the NHL level works wonders for confidence
I absolutely agree. I don't want to sell either guy short. Both Muzzy and Marty can be good number 5-6 guys for us next to Greene at even strength and on the 2nd PP unit. If Muzzin can get more comfortable and confident, it would do wonders for his game. You watch his games and all the bad ones it's clear he doesn't have his confidence going.

I would have no problem packaging either guy with Bernier to get what we want. Both would be nice, NHL ready additions to many teams blue lines and we don't have room for both.

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06-22-2013, 08:24 AM
  #511
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Originally Posted by sommervr View Post
I haven't seen Martinez play much out on the left coast. Looking at his usage charts he is easy minutes 3rd pairing but good possession numbers on the best possession team.

Why is he out of favor?
Not really out of favor but more of a numbers game if Mitchell's healthy.
Doughty-Regehr
Voynov-Mitchell
Greene-Muzzin
Ellerby

He'd be a better 7th dman than Ellerby but both lack consistent physical play. I'm also a big fan of Blacker so maybe I'm under selling Martinez a bit but IMO
Frattin and 1st > Bernier
Martinez > Blacker
So maybe Frattin+1st+Blacker = Bernier + Martinez

HFs math!!! Lol! Plus I want LA to get a 1st rd pick so they can trade down and add another 2nd rd pick. Would love LA to land both Robert Hagg and Jacob de la Rose

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06-22-2013, 08:43 AM
  #512
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Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
He struggled this year. This is a what have you done for me lately league and Jake Muzzin came in and scored a bit and now people think that Muzzin stole Martinez' job. The problem comes in we have too many D. MY expectation is we carry 8 D but if that's not in the plans, one of Muzzin, Martinez, or Ellerby need to be moved off the roster. I'd like Ellerby in the AHL and I'd take the risk with him on waivers because even if he gets claimed, we don't lose anything. Mark Morris is A HELL of a developer and could maybe fix Ellerby's game. Maybe. But yeah...someone has to move.
As a fan I would do the Blacker deal but I wouldn't be surprised to see the leafs give him one more camp this fall.

Thanks for the reply

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06-22-2013, 08:55 AM
  #513
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So losing a ****ing useless skills competition that isn't a part of any of the games that matters would deter you from getting a guy who could realistically fix the gaping hole in net you guys have had for YEARS? Got it.

Mike Richards is bad at breakaways. I don't want him on the Kings anymore.
If he's bad in the shootout doesn't that mean he's also bad on breakaways? Philly gives up plenty of breakaways.

And shootout points can also determine whether you make the playoffs.

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06-22-2013, 08:58 AM
  #514
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
If he's bad in the shootout doesn't that mean he's also bad on breakaways? Philly gives up plenty of breakaways.

And shootout points can also determine whether you make the playoffs.
we didn't win a single shootout this year in fact I think only Bozak scored

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06-22-2013, 09:06 AM
  #515
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Originally Posted by sommervr View Post
If Toronto was to make the deal how much more would need to be added to get Alec Martinez to come over? Say: Frattin + 21st +- ??? Bernier Amart
Frattin + 21st +Ross

Bernier
Amart

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06-22-2013, 09:15 AM
  #516
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we didn't win a single shootout this year in fact I think only Bozak scored
That was actually pretty hilarious.

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06-22-2013, 09:17 AM
  #517
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Originally Posted by kinghock View Post
Frattin + 21st +Ross

Bernier
Amart
Right here is were any deal dies. I truly hope if Nonis is moving the 1st, it's to improve in an actual area of need.

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06-22-2013, 09:27 AM
  #518
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Originally Posted by kinghock View Post
Frattin + 21st +Ross

Bernier
Amart
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Right here is were any deal dies. I truly hope if Nonis is moving the 1st, it's to improve in an actual area of need.
If he acquires the Islanders 1st by taking on DiPietros contract, Id be much more willing to move our 1st for Bernier.

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06-22-2013, 09:28 AM
  #519
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If he acquires the Islanders 1st by taking on DiPietros contract, Id be much more willing to move our 1st for Bernier.
That i'm ok with, as long as we are drafting in the same area (or better). This is NOT the year to bow out of the 1st round.

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06-22-2013, 10:31 AM
  #520
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So if the Kings can't afford a roster player who makes over $1.5M cap hit in return for Bernier, then why wouldn't GM's tell Lombardi to take a hike with his demands and just wait to offer sheet Bernier? It'll be a 2nd round pick. What's stopping them from stripping Lombardi of all his leverage and doing that?

I'm confused because I kept reading that Lombardi will match no matter what if it's for a 2nd rounder. Now, I'm seeing that any return for Bernier needs to (preferably) be around $1.5M or below because the cap situation.
What is stopping that from happening is that Bernier is probably dealt and re-signed by his new team before he would ever become available to offersheet.

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06-22-2013, 10:36 AM
  #521
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Then I don't want the Flyers getting him. Philly already has the worst shootout record in the league since its inception, and watching Bryzgalov in the shootout these past two years has been physically painful.
Terrible logic.

I, for one, would absolutely love to have Bernier in Philly, but that all depends on the price (which I don't think is as high as some Kings fans are posting ITT).

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06-22-2013, 11:10 AM
  #522
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Originally Posted by sommervr View Post
I haven't seen Martinez play much out on the left coast. Looking at his usage charts he is easy minutes 3rd pairing but good possession numbers on the best possession team.

Why is he out of favor?
During the lockout, Martinez played in Finland. He took a puck to the
face and it was brutal. He had 1 or 2 metal plates put in his face...
It made for a rough go and start to this season.

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06-22-2013, 11:23 AM
  #523
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If I'm Dean Lombardi this is what I'm asking for...

Min: Coyle + 2013 2nd or Zucker + 2014 1st

Tor: Colborne + #21 or Frattin + 2014 1st

Phi: Either Couturier or Schenn or Read + #11 for JB + 2nd

just sayin these would be my target trades... we'll see if somebody bites.
Well, I won't say you won't get any of that, but I'll just say that if I were a GM you wouldn't get Coyle, Zucker, Couturier, or Schenn straight up, no way I'd give #11 straight up for Bernier either.

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06-22-2013, 11:26 AM
  #524
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What are Berniers main weaknesses as a goalie? Im just wondering why some people say he has better "upside" over Reimer? And please dont say because he was drafted higher 7 years ago. They have pretty comparable stats, and Reimer plays on the significantly worse team / worse team defensively.

Reimers weaknesses are rebound control, glove hand, and puck handling. What about Bernier?
Bernier is terrible in shootouts and puck control. Also, he is a very sound technical goalie, and extremely calm; because of that, he'll make some saves look easy, due to his technique, but he will struggle mostly with directional changes and tip ins, due to the fact he doesn't "fight" for the puck like other more aggressive goalies. Also, he tends to stay in the crease more. For a smaller goalie, that gives the opposition more room to shoot... but because of his technique and reflexes, he stops almost all the shots he can see. It's extremely rare you see him let in a "bad goal."

That's just my take though.

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06-22-2013, 11:29 AM
  #525
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Phi: Either Couturier or Schenn or Read + #11 for JB + 2nd
omg wow

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