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Jonathan Bernier Race Down to 3 Teams (TOR, PHI, MIN)

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06-22-2013, 01:51 PM
  #576
Shrimper
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Wait, has it actually been said what LA are looking for?

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06-22-2013, 01:53 PM
  #577
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Originally Posted by TopT View Post
Its kind of hard to to prove anything playing backup to Quick; dont you think ?There is a reason Lombardi and the Kings fans are asking so much for him; we know him, we have seen him play and some of us, including me, think that he is better than Quick.
I totally agree, that's why it's hard to hear things like "Bernier is a clear upgrade over Reimer", until he actually proves it, it isn't so. Reimer carried the Leafs (whom most projected would miss) to the playoffs....won games 5 and 6 in the 1st round pretty much on his own and showed he could go toe to toe with Boston.

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06-22-2013, 02:01 PM
  #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I totally agree, that's why it's hard to hear things like "Bernier is a clear upgrade over Reimer", until he actually proves it, it isn't so. Reimer carried the Leafs (whom most projected would miss) to the playoffs....won games 5 and 6 in the 1st round pretty much on his own and showed he could go toe to toe with Boston.
wait wait, I was just responding to the guy that said Bernier was a downgrade.
Also the meltdown in game 7 wasnt exactly something to brag about.

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06-22-2013, 02:02 PM
  #579
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There's also no way people can justify wanting Riemer over Bernier just because he's more proven. Bernier has never gotten the opportunity's that Riemer has gotten. Bernier will thrive in a starting goalie role.

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06-22-2013, 02:07 PM
  #580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Wait, has it actually been said what LA are looking for?
It's been reported quite a few plas over time that the going rate for Bernier has been some composite of a top prospect/1st or 2nd round picks, but our team needs are a cheap cap hit particularly for this year roster player preferably 2nd line LWer, a backup goaltender, and some picks. Ideally, we'd move back into the 1st round, get that 2nd line LWer. Realistically, we'll get a 2nd rounder or two, get a 2nd/3rd line tweener, sign a backup, and call it a day. But we can all hope!


Last edited by ThirdManIn: 06-22-2013 at 02:36 PM. Reason: deleted quote and reply
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06-22-2013, 02:08 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by northernKing View Post
How's this deal?
NJ- Bernier, Martinez, Nolan and 7th rd pick (allows NJ to draft Brodeurs son)
LA- Matteau, Urbom, 3rd in 2014 and 2nd in 2015 ( picks make up for LA having no 2nd rd picks in 2014 and 2015)
Martinez and Nolan have negligible value to the Devils. New Jersey won't trade essentially a 1st (Matteau), 2nd and 3rd plus Urbom for a goalie they don't have room for.

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06-22-2013, 02:16 PM
  #582
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It's been reported quite a few places over time that the going rate for Bernier has been some composite of a top prospect/1st or 2nd round picks, but our team needs are a cheap cap hit particularly for this year roster player preferably 2nd line LWer, a backup goaltender, and some picks. Ideally, we'd move back into the 1st round, get that 2nd line LWer. Realistically, we'll get a 2nd rounder or two, get a 2nd/3rd line tweener, sign a backup, and call it a day. But we can all hope! [/QUOTE]

Your 2nd paragraph sounds a lot like Frattin (2nd/3rd line tweener as you called it at a 925k cap hit then RFA), Scrivens (backup goalie with near league minimum cap hit of 612K then UFA) and a 2nd.

I think that's fair value.


Last edited by ThirdManIn: 06-22-2013 at 02:37 PM. Reason: edited quote
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06-22-2013, 02:17 PM
  #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Wait, has it actually been said what LA are looking for?
Yes, ad nauseam: left wingers, prospects, or picks. In that order.

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06-22-2013, 02:21 PM
  #584
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Originally Posted by nazembiggs View Post
There's also no way people can justify wanting Riemer over Bernier just because he's more proven. Bernier has never gotten the opportunity's that Riemer has gotten. Bernier will thrive in a starting goalie role.
I think any argument right now is pointless since the 2 have had 2 completely different opportunities.

I believe both were given the proper time to develop and should be #1 NHL goaltenders with all star potential on the right team. Reimer's had opportunity on a developing team and has shown flashes of brilliance in line with how the rest of the team looked usually and Bernier had limited playing time behind a top 5 NHL team that won a Cup in one of his seasons as the backup.

I think they would make an interesting pair for a season with 1 forcing the hand of he team to move the other and bring in a veteran backup going forward.

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06-22-2013, 02:27 PM
  #585
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Originally Posted by JimtheMagicalHamster View Post
Martinez and Nolan have negligible value to the Devils. New Jersey won't trade essentially a 1st (Matteau), 2nd and 3rd plus Urbom for a goalie they don't have room for.
Well with former King Harrold on the roster I think Martinez could be top 4 especially if Zidlicky isn't signed. Nolan provides size and toughness that the devils lack as well. NJ may not have ROOM for Bernier but do have a NEED IMO

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06-22-2013, 02:29 PM
  #586
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Originally Posted by Jack Bauer View Post
I think any argument right now is pointless since the 2 have had 2 completely different opportunities.

I believe both were given the proper time to develop and should be #1 NHL goaltenders with all star potential on the right team. Reimer's had opportunity on a developing team and has shown flashes of brilliance in line with how the rest of the team looked usually and Bernier had limited playing time behind a top 5 NHL team that won a Cup in one of his seasons as the backup.

I think they would make an interesting pair for a season with 1 forcing the hand of he team to move the other and bring in a veteran backup going forward.
I agree with mostly everything you said, except for the last part. If Bernier is aquired, Riemer will be shipped out. They can't role with 2 young guys again. And by acquiring Bernier it's clear that Nonis doesn't have faith in him. He will deal Reimer and try and get some assets back. Riemer will return the same if not more than Bernier in a trade. It would be start to move him now when his value is the highest.

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06-22-2013, 02:32 PM
  #587
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Bernier is a young (for a goalie) top end prospect that has been developed properly and is ready to become a starter. He is as proven and ready of a goaltending prospect can be without actually already being a starter. Not sure why goalie prospects arent as valued as forward prospects. When it is widely accepted that they are the most important players on a team. Its just intersting to me. Are wingers as valuable as goalies? No. A 25 year old goalie is pretty comparable to a 20 year old forward. You simply can not draft a goalie and expect any production for at least 5 years down the road. Seems to me berniers value is easily equivalent to a top 5 pick is u need a goalie.

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06-22-2013, 02:35 PM
  #588
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Bernier should net a high pick or a top end prospect. If ur team doesnt have eithet expect to give up a package equivalent to it.

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06-22-2013, 02:38 PM
  #589
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Originally Posted by nazembiggs View Post
There's also no way people can justify wanting Riemer over Bernier just because he's more proven. Bernier has never gotten the opportunity's that Riemer has gotten. Bernier will thrive in a starting goalie role.
Have you seen our past luck with acquiring young promising goalies. Bernier may end up having an excellent career, but I am unwilling to give up to much for a chance for him to bust. I don't want another Toskala situation. Especially when Riemer could still beat him out of the spot, further lowering his value. Also I don't think if the trade happens he will be flipped right after. That's how you start to burn bridges.

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06-22-2013, 02:39 PM
  #590
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Toronto, you are retarded. Every time we actually draft and develop a good player ourselves, you dummies want to trade them away. See: Kaberle, Gardiner, Reimer, Frattin, Kulemin (last summer), Rielly, and the list goes on and on. This is why we can't have nice things.

Having said that, the only way i would support Bernier coming to Toronto is if LA includes a defenseman or two.

Frattin + 1st + Scrivens + 2nd

for

Bernier + Alec Martinez + rights to Rob Scuderi

it actually addresses an area of need instead of uselessly adding to an area that doesn't need strengthening.
I don't mind that deal from a Leafs prospective, however I still don't see why Toronto has to give up their 1st round pick. I said before and I will say it again when looking at the trades that Tampa Bay got for Anders Lindback and Ben Bishop, neither one included Tampa Bay giving up a 1st round pick for two back-up Goalies. So I say those trades should have set the market for Bernier.

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06-22-2013, 02:39 PM
  #591
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Hearing that #Leafs are still very much involved in Jonathan Bernier trade discussion w/#LAKings. Matt Frattin could be in the mix.

https://twitter.com/Berger_BYTES/sta...08063034114049

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06-22-2013, 02:40 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by Rusty Batch View Post
Bernier is a young (for a goalie) top end prospect that has been developed properly and is ready to become a starter. He is as proven and ready of a goaltending prospect can be without actually already being a starter. Not sure why goalie prospects arent as valued as forward prospects. When it is widely accepted that they are the most important players on a team. Its just intersting to me. Are wingers as valuable as goalies? No. A 25 year old goalie is pretty comparable to a 20 year old forward. You simply can not draft a goalie and expect any production for at least 5 years down the road. Seems to me berniers value is easily equivalent to a top 5 pick is u need a goalie.
The reason their not valued as high is because generally a lot of goalies look good when their young, yet turn out to be nothing. Goalies also take longer to develop and become starting goalies.

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06-22-2013, 02:44 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I totally agree, that's why it's hard to hear things like "Bernier is a clear upgrade over Reimer", until he actually proves it, it isn't so. Reimer carried the Leafs (whom most projected would miss) to the playoffs....won games 5 and 6 in the 1st round pretty much on his own and showed he could go toe to toe with Boston.
He's not a clear upgrade but I still feel Bernier has a lot of untapped upside- and can be better than Reimer (or at least has less glaring flaws until Reimer can prove otherwise- qualitatively).

Frattin + 1st is overkill however. That would be a no-go on our end. I think we're in a position where we're looking to add insurance (I'll refrain from using the term "upgrade" with Bernier) but we're not going to overpay for an asset like Bernier.

The absolute most I see us offering is Frattin OR 1st and a B prospect (like a Blacker). Even then, I would be hesitant.

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06-22-2013, 02:44 PM
  #594
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Originally Posted by garyjones93 View Post
Have you seen our past luck with acquiring young promising goalies. Bernier may end up having an excellent career, but I am unwilling to give up to much for a chance for him to bust. I don't want another Toskala situation. Especially when Riemer could still beat him out of the spot, further lowering his value. Also I don't think if the trade happens he will be flipped right after. That's how you start to burn bridges.
Not burning bridges, giving Reimer a chance to start somewhere else. Nonis has his vision of this team and it doesn't include Riemer. As much as we may not want him to acquire a goalie, it's clear he wants one. That's his decision to make, I just hope he's not being pressured by tim leiweke.

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06-22-2013, 02:44 PM
  #595
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Price for Bernier is going to be too high for Fletcher's liking. It's likely down to the Leafs and Flyers. Was really hoping Tampa would go after him last off-season, and I'd love to see Bernier be Brodeur's replacement in Jersey.

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06-22-2013, 02:45 PM
  #596
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I am still laughing at the fact that someone said Reimer has been hit or miss.

In his two non concussion seasons he has posted .921 and .924 SV%, with a .923 SV% against Boston in the first round. All this while playing for a team that is generally pretty bad defensively (gave up second most shots against in the league this year).

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06-22-2013, 02:50 PM
  #597
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It appears we have a bidding war folks...


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06-22-2013, 03:14 PM
  #598
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Matt Frattin
2013 2nd

For
J.Bernier
Scudari's rights (should you not want to resign him)

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06-22-2013, 03:20 PM
  #599
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there will be no war over bernier... matt read and a 3rd is the best value you get from philly... have a great day

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06-22-2013, 03:39 PM
  #600
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
I am still laughing at the fact that someone said Reimer has been hit or miss.

In his two non concussion seasons he has posted .921 and .924 SV%, with a .923 SV% against Boston in the first round. All this while playing for a team that is generally pretty bad defensively (gave up second most shots against in the league this year).
Teams shoot from anywhere and everywhere when they play Toronto, simply because James Reimer is in net. It's not exactly a secret that he has the worst rebound control of any goalie in the league. Unfortunately this artificially inflates his save percentage, which Leafs fans then point to and think he's a good NHL goalie.

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