HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Should the Pens become a trapping team?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-26-2013, 02:25 PM
  #1
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
 
Jaded-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 34,592
vCash: 500
Should the Pens become a trapping team?

The Pens certainly are bucking the way the NHL is played, and how to win in the current NHL. Of the teams who were involved in games where the most goals were scored in the NHL this year they are the only ones to even make the playoffs, and they struggled there as they have each of the years since winning the cup. The question becomes, is their model flawed and bucking the current state of the NHL? Let's look at that state a little more closely.

'For the fourth straight year, the NHL saw a decline in goal scoring in 2013 with an average of 5.44 goals per game.

The league hasn't quite dropped down to the level that it was in the late 1990s and early 2000s, a period in league history that is infamously referred to as "the dead puck era." But it's something that keeps going down, even if only slightly, and the 2013 season is still one of the lowest scoring campaigns in history.

......

• Of the five teams that played in the highest scoring games this season (goals for plus goals against), four missed the playoffs (Tampa Bay, Carolina, Calgary and Florida). The Penguins, whose games featured an average of 5.92 goals per game, were the only team in the top five to make the playoffs. Tampa Bay, Carolina and Calgary all played games with an average of six goals or more.




(Goals per game for both teams)

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/blog/ey...-the-nhl-again

1990 5,805 3.46
1991 6,123 3.48
1992 7,311 3.63
1993 7,081 3.24
1994 3,727 2.99
1995 6,701 3.14
1996 6,216 2.92
1997 5,624 2.64
1998 5,830 2.63
1999 6,306 2.75
2000 6,782 2.76
2001 6,442 2.62
2002 6,530 2.65
2003 6,318 2.57
2005 7,443 3.03
2006 7,082 2.88
2007 6,691 2.72
2008 7,006 2.85
2009 6,803 2.77
2010 6,721 2.73
2011 6,545 2.66
2012 3,822 2.65

(Goals per game per team)

http://www.sportingcharts.com/articl...n-the-nhl.aspx

Now with that said the NHL has apparently noted the problem and taken a baby step in the direction of addressing the issue with slightly smaller goalie pads next year. But none of that addresses the real issue of the game, that you can load up on a bunch of mediocre talent hacks and clutch, grab and tackle skilled players to your hearts content.

How long should we fight against the current state of the NHL and play a system better suited to another era before giving in and fitting how the current NHL is played?

Jaded-Fan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 02:33 PM
  #2
TravisUlrich
Eternal Optimist
 
TravisUlrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,253
vCash: 500
I say yes. Trapping teams always seem to get better (though fewer) scoring opportunities.

TravisUlrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 02:56 PM
  #3
Karnage420*
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,032
vCash: 500
i wish we would.

but nope. we'll be the regular season kings for a few years. first round exits will be an annual affair.

thanks bylsma.

Karnage420* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 02:57 PM
  #4
Jag68Sid87
Nothing Else Maattas
 
Jag68Sid87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 30,798
vCash: 500
Did you miss Game 6 of the Cup finals? One minute to go, Bruins set up the mother of all traps, Patrick Kane walks around all of them, shoots on net, wins back the puck, gets it to Toews, to Bickell...goal.

At the end of the day, a highly skilled team won the Cup again. Since 2008, skill has won the championship four out of the six times.

Instead of the trap, if THIS team used its skill to the most of their ability, if they were complemented by people driving hard to the net (like Bickell on the tying goal), then we would be a step closer to Chicago.

Besides, who is coaching this stylistic metamorphosis? The guy whose ONLY answer to why we lose is "we didn't get to our game"?

Jag68Sid87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 03:01 PM
  #5
Jules Winnfield
Kessel is phat
 
Jules Winnfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,835
vCash: 500
I think we should be a counter-attacking team (call it the trap if you want) instead of being solely focused on getting the puck north as fast as possible, which leads to defensive breakdowns and scoring opportunities for the opposition.

Jules Winnfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 03:01 PM
  #6
Gooch
Registered User
 
Gooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Coeur d'Alene Idaho
Country: United States
Posts: 14,312
vCash: 692
Our problem is scoring goals against trapping teams in the playoffs and we're going to correct that problem by becoming a trapping team? I don't see how that in any way improves the chances of scoring against those types of teams and only serves as a source of frustration for an entire fanbase as we have to endure the worlds most boring form of system for any sport. Not to mention it's a gigantic ******** waste of the amount of money we have tied up into two generational talents. A simple no is just not enough for how horrible of an idea this is.

Gooch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 03:20 PM
  #7
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Dark Matter
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Darkness
Country: United States
Posts: 26,377
vCash: 500
Nope. Chicago and LA have shown you don't need to do it to win, if you have good depth and speed, and fans are the #1 beneficiary of not playing that POC system. Frankly if Boston still had Savard out there (which would alter their top lines significantly) I'm not sure THEY would be doing it.

If we take the kind of top-end talent we have and start playing a slow, trapping game, I will hang em up. I am not paying every year to watch the NJ Devils. Ray wants me to be entertained. Trapping is in direct violation of entertainment standards.

Darth Vitale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 03:28 PM
  #8
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
 
Jaded-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 34,592
vCash: 500
On a related note, a slightly different question. The charts do not lie, the stats do not lie. The league is actively promoting the decline of goal scoring, and each year the goal scoring drops a little more.

Why?

It seems counter intuitive to what the fans actually would want to see. Granted, no one wants to see a recreation of the all star game night in and night out. But there is a lot of room between a little over five goals a game between two teams and the clown act the all star game is. All the league would have to do would be to make sure that clutching and grabbing is penalized more. If there are more PP's for a time so be it. Players would adjust.

What reason would the NHL be for driving scoring down? If anything would drive people away from the sport and keep it from growing it would be to bore people to tears like the NHL seems to be headed.

Jaded-Fan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 03:28 PM
  #9
66-29-33
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,532
vCash: 500
No thanks. Pens should play man D though.

66-29-33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 03:33 PM
  #10
PensPlz
Registered User
 
PensPlz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 4,313
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to PensPlz
Personally no. I think the Pens have too much talent to trap. But in this league, these refs with the allowance of so much obstruction, I think it is necessary to win in the playoffs.

PensPlz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 03:51 PM
  #11
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Dark Matter
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Darkness
Country: United States
Posts: 26,377
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
On a related note, a slightly different question. The charts do not lie, the stats do not lie. The league is actively promoting the decline of goal scoring, and each year the goal scoring drops a little more.

Why?

It seems counter intuitive to what the fans actually would want to see. Granted, no one wants to see a recreation of the all star game night in and night out. But there is a lot of room between a little over five goals a game between two teams and the clown act the all star game is. All the league would have to do would be to make sure that clutching and grabbing is penalized more. If there are more PP's for a time so be it. Players would adjust.

What reason would the NHL be for driving scoring down? If anything would drive people away from the sport and keep it from growing it would be to bore people to tears like the NHL seems to be headed.
Assuming there's something to your theory, my explanation would be simple: the league is trying to find subtle ways (by letting certain things go more than a few years ago), to promote Original Six franchises / make those matchups happen, along with wanting the Pens, Crapitals, LA and other more recently successful teams to do well with their higher octane offenses.

Boston, Rangers, Red Wings... all play trapping defense at times and have showed it even more in the playoffs, when they really try to slow things down. Only the Hawks don't fit the mold there, being more like Pittsburgh in their style than the other 3. Maybe you could add Montreal to this at times with Therrien in there now but I'm not sure where they're headed defensively.

Point not being conspiracy but if they allow more of the trap crap and obstruction stuff (but still less than prior lockout), they figure they're more likely to get the matchups they want at playoff time? I dunno. But it doesn't hurt them for these Original Six teams to be prominently featured in teh playoffs every year, I can tell you that.

Darth Vitale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 04:33 PM
  #12
Letang fan 58
No More Fleury
 
Letang fan 58's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,815
vCash: 500
100% no. Look at what it did to the Caps when they tried to turn a great offensive team into a defensive team. It took 3 years out of the prime of ovie/backstrom/semin's careers and didn't accomplish a thing.

trapping should only be used by weaker teams to try and level the playing field when they cant keep up with the more skilled ones.

One thing we should do though is get a couple of bigger players who are physical and can adapt to the anything goes rules come playoff time. Also get a guy with at least some skill who's big to take focus off Sid, like the Bruins/Hawks do with Bickell/Lucic. I really like the 2 skill 1 grit guy lines.

Letang fan 58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 04:55 PM
  #13
eXile59
Shirts on.
 
eXile59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 17,044
vCash: 500
Like all good teams it should be part of our playbook when protecting a lead late. It should not be our primary method of winning games.

I like the 2-1 fore check, Chicago used it & Boston did at times as well. I think most our defensive problems come from in zone coverage and our unwillingness to use a controlled break out. Instead using that stupid hail marry pass that cause more turn overs than offense.

eXile59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 05:05 PM
  #14
End of Line
Human After All
 
End of Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 20,476
vCash: 500
As our primary forecheck and system? Hell no, too much offensive firepower.

To protect leads late in the game? Yes.

__________________

"I don't know what the stronger emotion would be, the joy of winning or the pain of losing"-Sidney Crosby.
End of Line is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 05:11 PM
  #15
eXile59
Shirts on.
 
eXile59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 17,044
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by End of Line View Post
As our primary forecheck and system? Hell no, too much offensive firepower.

To protect leads late in the game? Yes.
That actually sums up what I said but more concise. I think most good teams do this now. Not even Devils use it all the time anymore.

eXile59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 05:27 PM
  #16
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 37,840
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
On a related note, a slightly different question. The charts do not lie, the stats do not lie. The league is actively promoting the decline of goal scoring, and each year the goal scoring drops a little more.

Why?

It seems counter intuitive to what the fans actually would want to see. Granted, no one wants to see a recreation of the all star game night in and night out. But there is a lot of room between a little over five goals a game between two teams and the clown act the all star game is. All the league would have to do would be to make sure that clutching and grabbing is penalized more. If there are more PP's for a time so be it. Players would adjust.

What reason would the NHL be for driving scoring down? If anything would drive people away from the sport and keep it from growing it would be to bore people to tears like the NHL seems to be headed.
They are completely unwilling to let that happen. The refs were convinced Powerplays are their fault, not the players.

As for reason to allow clutching intentionally, well its safer if people move around more slowly.

Ogrezilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 05:38 PM
  #17
#66
Registered User
 
#66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 10,588
vCash: 500
No... Trapping and chip and chase just shows how dumbed down the NHL has become. The average athlete is better but the NHL plays some pretty nim rod hockey. Its not even fun to watch.

Neither is the Pens sloppy ass play. Its clear as day they like the free lance stuff though.

#66 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 06:48 PM
  #18
cassius
Registered User
 
cassius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,109
vCash: 500
Yes - too bad Mario would never let it happen.

He loves teams who are absolute goal machines, which is what this team is right now. Also, it explains why there were no changes during the off-season.

cassius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 07:33 PM
  #19
Jag68Sid87
Nothing Else Maattas
 
Jag68Sid87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 30,798
vCash: 500
I wouldn't even call ourselves a 'goal machine'. We're operating at probably 1/3 of what this team's TRUE offensive potential is.

This system we play is wide open, yes, but the first line is two thirds of a third line, one third generational talent. The second line has a hole on the left side. And the third line lost most of its scoring potential last summer on draft day.

This is not even close to maximizing the offensive output of a team that has Crosby centering Line 1, and Malkin centering Line 2. Not to mention the inconsistencies on the PP.

So, goal machine? Maybe in the regular season when nobody can truly prepare for us. But clearly we're not a goal machine after what transpired in Round 3.

Jag68Sid87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 07:36 PM
  #20
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
 
Jaded-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 34,592
vCash: 500
And to get back to my original point, the NHL as presently constructed penalizes teams that are skilled, and favors teams who play a trapping game. Yeah, Chicago won, I was rooting hard for them for just this reason, I would have projectile vomited if Boston got rewarded for playing like linebackers the entire post season and tackling everyone. In the end I want to see skill win out to have faith in the game. Yeah Chicago won in the end but it was a very close thing. Are we out of step and at least do we need to make adjustments if not an all out trap?

Again, the numbers do not lie. Individual stats can, but when that all encompassing and over such a long period, they speak loudly as to where the game is today.

Jaded-Fan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 07:47 PM
  #21
Jag68Sid87
Nothing Else Maattas
 
Jag68Sid87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 30,798
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
And to get back to my original point, the NHL as presently constructed penalizes teams that are skilled, and favors teams who play a trapping game. Yeah, Chicago won, I was rooting hard for them for just this reason, I would have projectile vomited if Boston got rewarded for playing like linebackers the entire post season and tackling everyone. In the end I want to see skill win out to have faith in the game. Yeah Chicago won in the end but it was a very close thing. Are we out of step and at least do we need to make adjustments if not an all out trap?

Again, the numbers do not lie. Individual stats can, but when that all encompassing and over such a long period, they speak loudly as to where the game is today.

Chicago won. Yeah it was very close but winning the Stanley Cup is RARELY the cakewalk LA made it seem like last year.

We are nowhere near 1995 right now in this league.

Jag68Sid87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 07:48 PM
  #22
Saving Greiss
Trade Malkin???
 
Saving Greiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Moncton, NB
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,361
vCash: 500
I'd be all for it in the playoffs. However, I don't think I could watch the other 82 games of it.

__________________
Evgeni Malkin - the best player in the NHL
Saving Greiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2013, 07:45 AM
  #23
Le Magnifique 66
Let's Go Pens
 
Le Magnifique 66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,478
vCash: 500
The Devils and their trapping system still had Stevens, Niedermayer and most importantly Brodeur. We don't have that. I know we have more power up front but at the end of the day we don't have the D or goalie to rely on

Le Magnifique 66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2013, 07:51 AM
  #24
WVP
Registered User
 
WVP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 13,316
vCash: 500
Claude Noel just gave a long breakdown on XM yesterday about scoring goals in today's NHL. Number 1? Going to the net. We didn't do that at all vs Boston.

WVP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2013, 07:53 AM
  #25
Le Magnifique 66
Let's Go Pens
 
Le Magnifique 66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,478
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVP View Post
Claude Noel just gave a long breakdown on XM yesterday about scoring goals in today's NHL. Number 1? Going to the net. We didn't do that at all vs Boston.
Bennett did it once in Boston and he beat the D and beat Rask but unfortunately ended off the post. We do need more players that are whiling to go hard to the net

Le Magnifique 66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:29 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.