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The Value of an enforcer on the Pens 2013-2014 team

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06-24-2013, 12:24 PM
  #176
wgknestrick
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Originally Posted by BreakfastatMarios View Post
Was talking to a friend and we were debating ways the Penguins could get better, and as we kept talking, the topic of team toughness, and the fact that the bruins took liberties against Crosby came up.

My friend said imagine if someone did that to Wayne Gretzky what would happen I reckon McSorley would've decapitated them and used their skull as a chilli bowl.

Now I dont advocate decapitating people, however I do like some good Chilli

I think it would be interesting to give up a roster spot to have someone up here. I know the Penguins have BIG Mac down on the baby Pens. If not Big Mac then somebody needs to be brought in.

The thing about this is, when you have a guy like that, folks are less likely to take liberties against guys like Crosby and Malkin, and everybody plays tougher knowing someone has there back.

I do understand there are a lot of things to work on, however I do feel this is an overlooked aspect of this team, it just seems folks hit Crosby and the rest of the team doesn't retaliate all of the time.
Why do people assume that fighting back has any impact on the scoreboard?

The key is to stay focused on hockey until the game is won. Pens didn't do that and they lost. Having more players "not focused on hockey" (but getting even) is going to be 2012 PHI series all over again. Enforcers are only great to have when you are up by 4 goals.

The bigger problem is enforcement of the current rules to eliminate all of the un-punished fouls to begin with.

I also have not seen any analysis or even 1 piece of data enforcing your bolded statement. 5 min of Big Mac (or other random goon) ice time does not influence ANY actions of opposing players IMO. Lucic can hold his own with just about anyone in the NHL IMO. He is certainly big enough to grapple Mac to the ground, ending it before damage is taken.

Best revenge is always going to be scoring a goal and thanking the player as he skates out of the box. Pens still haven't been able to learn that, even after opposing players "thank" them.

Pens need mental toughness more than anything

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06-24-2013, 06:20 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by lastcupever75 View Post
$$$$

By the same token, you can say the same about lucic and Horton doing for kreci
Absolutely. When the NHL goes WWE in reffing the playoffs, the teams that recognize it, and make best use of it to their advantage are going to win the close games, especially with a solid PK to go along with it and back it up.

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06-24-2013, 06:20 PM
  #178
lastcupever75
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Has Boston learned that?


They seem to have no problem with their top guys getting involved in that stuff

Just cause Detroit played that way and won a few years ago doesn't mean the fight back style doesn't win. Case in point out last cup win

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06-27-2013, 11:50 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
This is simplistic way of thinking that we see a lot around here. I think it's part of the Pittsburgh mindset / ethic. Smash-mouth, Steelers mindset carries the day. Even in hockey, somehow.

What I'm telling you is, when you get to the playoffs, guys like Chara will pay the price. If he thinks he has to fight some goon and take a pounding in order to take the Penguins' offense off its game by roughing up Sid, he's going to rough up Sid. It wouldn't change anything. Chara is not afraid of anyone, dude. He's frickin 6'8" or whatever and has plenty of mean streak in him.

When you run into teams as big and strong as Boston, no enforcer is going to change their gameplan with respect to Crosby or Malkin or whoever. They're going to play how they're going to play and no fight is going to deter them. All you'll succeed in doing is making it easier for the other team to score when our goon is on the ice. Especially in the playoffs when everything is faster paced. Imagine the Bruins 3rd and 4th lines, which both have good scoring elements, going up against a slow-footed clod like Mac. They'd tear him apart offensively. A permanent 5 on 4 for them, every shift he plays.
I have to disagree, I remember a game with Chara when we had Big bad George. Chara ran into Crosby twice and George went out the very next shift and things calmed down.

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06-27-2013, 10:21 PM
  #180
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Just bring Zach Sill up and have him play with Glass and Vitale.

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06-27-2013, 10:43 PM
  #181
MichiganWolverines
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Originally Posted by MonsterSurge View Post
Just bring Zach Sill up and have him play with Glass and Vitale.
No, Zach Sill is a goon. Harry Z should play.

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06-27-2013, 10:49 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by MichiganWolverines View Post
No, Zach Sill is a goon. Harry Z should play.
...or Bobby Farnham. We could have two of the worst fighters in hockey history on the same line.

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06-27-2013, 10:54 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by MonsterSurge View Post
...or Bobby Farnham. We could have two of the worst fighters in hockey history on the same line.
Farnham - Adams - Harry Z

The punching bag line.

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06-28-2013, 12:34 AM
  #184
froods
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Originally Posted by MichiganWolverines View Post
Farnham - Adams - Harry Z

The punching bag line.
Jay Beagle available?

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06-28-2013, 01:15 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by froods View Post
Jay Beagle available?
He could actually win a fight. He just can't win a fight against a legit tough guy. Bobby Farnham wins fights by screwing up and hitting the guy by mistake.

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06-28-2013, 03:36 AM
  #186
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Teams like Boston and Toronto aren't tough because they have enforcers, they are tough because they have multiple guys along with their enforcers who can whip ass and still play the game. MacLaren and Orr are enforcers, but they can play. Both throw the body around and are able to contribute more than fighting alone. Then you have guys like Mark Fraser who can drop em big time and play dependable if not spectacular minutes on the blue line. Phaneuf isn't shy about dropping the mitts if he has to either. Same thing with Boston, sure they have Thornton but they've also got Lucic, Chara, Horton, McQuaid and Boychuck who can fight and play the game. Pittsburgh isn't going to be tougher just because they add a goon, there's more to it than that. Their identity has to change from being a skill team to being a tough team for it to matter, otherwise the enforcer is wasting a spot on your bench. A team with Malkin and Crosby is never going to be playing "tough" hockey no matter how much they may try, they aren't chip it in and bangers and never will be. They are fancy pants puck artists built in the mold of the enforcerless Red Wing dynasty who would be better served sticking to that and hoping Boston is out before they have to meet in the playoffs next year.

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