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Flames to throw "big bucks" at Bryan Bickell?

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Old
06-21-2013, 07:11 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
This is such crap it is a rebuild and has been called one, get off your high horse for moving 6 spots later in the draft for the first time in 4 years.
Actually it's a retool. It's the same crap that Toronto pulled for years. Do you know the difference between a rebuild and a retool? During a rebuild you acquire high quality players through the draft. A retool has you chasing overpriced FAs in the hopes they will solve all your problems. AKA Bryan Bickell at $4M+/year.

If you expect the 6th overall to be your savior I'd be worried. Those other first rounders are a few years from having any sort of impact.

You have no stars and you can't attract any either. We went through this phase, too, with the Heatley and Hossa saga. Looks like the Flames want to emulate that part of our history too.

Call it whatever you want. No one should believe anything Feaster says anyway. From "If management wants to rebuild they can find another GM to do it" to "Guess it's a rebuild".

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06-21-2013, 07:20 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Actually it's a retool. It's the same crap that Toronto pulled for years. Do you know the difference between a rebuild and a retool? During a rebuild you acquire high quality players through the draft. A retool has you chasing overpriced FAs in the hopes they will solve all your problems. AKA Bryan Bickell at $4M+/year.

If you expect the 6th overall to be your savior I'd be worried. Those other first rounders are a few years from having any sort of impact.

You have no stars and you can't attract any either. We went through this phase, too, with the Heatley and Hossa saga. Looks like the Flames want to emulate that part of our history too.

Call it whatever you want. No one should believe anything Feaster says anyway. From "If management wants to rebuild they can find another GM to do it" to "Guess it's a rebuild".
So getting #6 in this draft and going just throwing him into the lineup = success? Or you have someone fill those holes while we develop our young players so we don't rush them?

You were trolling and I called you on it get over it, a rebuild is when you remove the old core and build a new one core as much as we would simply like to fast forward 4 years and begin assembling all of our prospects we can't so we have to pay someone to play and unlike Edmonton we have been able to bring several players already and didn't try to trade for Heatley. Again stop acting like this is our long term solution it is a stop gap and with 25 million in cap space (more when Cammy is gone) we can offered to overpay 3rd liners for a few years.

I never once said the #6 pick is the savior those are your words but if Edmonton has shown us anything giving up on trying to win and collecting a #1 overall pick or two doesn't fix ****.

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06-21-2013, 07:22 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Actually it's a retool. It's the same crap that Toronto pulled for years. Do you know the difference between a rebuild and a retool? During a rebuild you acquire high quality players through the draft. A retool has you chasing overpriced FAs in the hopes they will solve all your problems. AKA Bryan Bickell at $4M+/year.

If you expect the 6th overall to be your savior I'd be worried. Those other first rounders are a few years from having any sort of impact.

You have no stars and you can't attract any either. We went through this phase, too, with the Heatley and Hossa saga. Looks like the Flames want to emulate that part of our history too.

Call it whatever you want. No one should believe anything Feaster says anyway. From "If management wants to rebuild they can find another GM to do it" to "Guess it's a rebuild".
Feaster has officially called it a "rebuild" if that's what's putting your panties in a knot.

Also, there us no source saying Feaster will go after Bickell. Just because he went after Wideman and Hudler last summer when he had Bouwmeester and Iginla on the roster doesn't mean he'll do it this summer.

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06-21-2013, 07:22 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Actually it's a retool. It's the same crap that Toronto pulled for years. Do you know the difference between a rebuild and a retool? During a rebuild you acquire high quality players through the draft. A retool has you chasing overpriced FAs in the hopes they will solve all your problems. AKA Bryan Bickell at $4M+/year.

If you expect the 6th overall to be your savior I'd be worried. Those other first rounders are a few years from having any sort of impact.

You have no stars and you can't attract any either. We went through this phase, too, with the Heatley and Hossa saga. Looks like the Flames want to emulate that part of our history too.

Call it whatever you want. No one should believe anything Feaster says anyway. From "If management wants to rebuild they can find another GM to do it" to "Guess it's a rebuild".
This is a huge load of crap. You are aware there's a salary cap in effect, right? And a cap floor? The Flames need to clear that floor in order to be cap eligible. Throwing big bucks at FAs is the only way they are going to be able to do that.

So we are not "hoping they will solve all our problems". We tried a retool for years and it didn't work. This is a rebuild.

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06-21-2013, 07:29 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
So getting #6 in this draft and going just throwing him into the lineup = success? Or you have someone fill those holes while we develop our young players so we don't rush them?

You were trolling and I called you on it get over it, a rebuild is when you remove the old core and build a new one core as much as we would simply like to fast forward 4 years and begin assembling all of our prospects we can't so we have to pay someone to play and unlike Edmonton we have been able to bring several players already and didn't try to trade for Heatley. Again stop acting like this is our long term solution it is a stop gap and with 25 million in cap space (more when Cammy is gone) we can offered to overpay 3rd liners for a few year.

I never once said the #6 pick is the savior those are your words but if Edmonton has shown us anything giving up on trying to win and collecting a #1 overall pick or two doesn't fix ****.
The whole strategy is a stop-gap solution and the end result is a mediocre team with huge holes from a lack of legit stars. Draft picks are the only way any Canadian team is going to attract superstars. If you think you're somehow different from the rest of Canada it's time for a reality check. Looks to me like Calgary is trying to fill its ranks with a bunch of bottom 6 and top 6 tweeners. Just enough to maybe sneak into the playoffs and flame out like they have for the better part of a decade.

So, what's the plan? Draft some prospects this year, stock the shelves and acquire enough FA talent to avoid the top draft talents in future years and say how much more honorable your rebuild was because you didn't follow "The Edmonton Method" as you end up with the same results as 2006-2013? That's a shame. I was really hoping the BofA would become meaningful again.

Bryan Bickell for 5 years or whatever at an absurd price just shows to me there is no commitment from your ownership to rebuild with the most chance of success possible. It looks like it's playoff revenue that is most important to your franchise right now. We'll see how good Feaster can pull off the retool but I see the Leafs pre-Burke written all over the Flames.

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06-21-2013, 07:32 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
The whole strategy is a stop-gap solution and the end result is a mediocre team with huge holes from a lack of legit stars. Draft picks are the only way any Canadian team is going to attract superstars. If you think you're somehow different from the rest of Canada it's time for a reality check. Looks to me like Calgary is trying to fill its ranks with a bunch of bottom 6 and top 6 tweeners. Just enough to maybe sneak into the playoffs and flame out like they have for the better part of a decade.

So, what's the plan? Draft some prospects this year, stock the shelves and acquire enough FA talent to avoid the top draft talents in future years and say how much more honorable your rebuild was because you didn't follow "The Edmonton Method" as you end up with the same results as 2006-2013? That's a shame. I was really hoping the BofA would become meaningful again.

Bryan Bickell for 5 years or whatever at an absurd price just shows to me there is no commitment from your ownership to rebuild with the most chance of success possible. It looks like it's playoff revenue that is most important to your franchise right now. We'll see how good Feaster can pull off the retool but I see the Leafs pre-Burke written all over the Flames.
I really don't know what you expect the Flames to do. Dress 23 rookies all year? Dress 6 guys and play them in every position all year? The team needs players, they have to sign them to get them, just like every other team. What exactly would your brilliant plan be to manage this team?

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06-21-2013, 07:34 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
The whole strategy is a stop-gap solution and the end result is a mediocre team with huge holes from a lack of legit stars. Draft picks are the only way any Canadian team is going to attract superstars. If you think you're somehow different from the rest of Canada it's time for a reality check. Looks to me like Calgary is trying to fill its ranks with a bunch of bottom 6 and top 6 tweeners. Just enough to maybe sneak into the playoffs and flame out like they have for the better part of a decade.

So, what's the plan? Draft some prospects this year, stock the shelves and acquire enough FA talent to avoid the top draft talents in future years and say how much more honorable your rebuild was because you didn't follow "The Edmonton Method" as you end up with the same results as 2006-2013? That's a shame. I was really hoping the BofA would become meaningful again.

Bryan Bickell for 5 years or whatever at an absurd price just shows to me there is no commitment from your ownership to rebuild with the most chance of success possible. It looks like it's playoff revenue that is most important to your franchise right now. We'll see how good Feaster can pull off the retool but I see the Leafs pre-Burke written all over the Flames.
It's like you keep posting the same thing without reading what others are saying. You are mocking the Flames because some guy on a forum suggested signing Bickell as a possibility.

Who has more draft picks in this draft? Who did the Flames trade at the trade deadline? Who will likely finish last next season?

Everything suggests the Flames are rebuilding and will take their time, including management, yet you still seem to think the Flames are acting like "lulz rebuild 5 years 6 mil for bickell".

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06-21-2013, 07:34 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
The whole strategy is a stop-gap solution and the end result is a mediocre team with huge holes from a lack of legit stars. Draft picks are the only way any Canadian team is going to attract superstars. If you think you're somehow different from the rest of Canada it's time for a reality check. Looks to me like Calgary is trying to fill its ranks with a bunch of bottom 6 and top 6 tweeners. Just enough to maybe sneak into the playoffs and flame out like they have for the better part of a decade.

So, what's the plan? Draft some prospects this year, stock the shelves and acquire enough FA talent to avoid the top draft talents in future years and say how much more honorable your rebuild was because you didn't follow "The Edmonton Method" as you end up with the same results as 2006-2013? That's a shame. I was really hoping the BofA would become meaningful again.

Bryan Bickell for 5 years at an absurd price just shows to me there is no commitment from your ownership to rebuild with the most chance of success possible. It looks like it's playoff revenue that is most important to your franchise right now. We'll see how good Feaster can pull off the retool but I see the Leafs pre-Burke written all over the Flames.
Did you even ****ing read the OP? The "fan" is speculating on what he thinks they will do he has no proof or sources and yet you are taking it is a fact. We aren't going to simply roll over and play dead for the next few years we will continue to try and draft well where we finish but aren't simply going to ice a joke of a roster unless we cannot bring in anyone.

It isn't a retool we are officially rebuilding, you can use whatever word you want but we are stocking the shelves with the purpose of building a new core, we just don't think that being force feed literally the worst team in the league for several years is what needs to happen to build a new team but I guess your right no team can build a core like Boston's without top 3 picks (Oh wait ).

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06-21-2013, 07:38 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by DBU View Post
I really don't know what you expect the Flames to do. Dress 23 rookies all year? Dress 6 guys and play them in every position all year? The team needs players, they have to sign them to get them, just like every other team. What exactly would your brilliant plan be to manage this team?
It's just backwards. I mean, rebuilding is more than just throwing players onto a team and saying "ok, go". It needs momentum, and players need to buy into it. The only way you get superstars is if you're in the top 3 position overall, or maybe if you get lucky. Good GMs won't count on luck.

The crap that comes out of Feaster's mouth makes me question if he even has an idea about what he's supposed to be doing. The mandate in Calgary changes every month and the minute Feaster gets working on one thing (IE, making the playoffs and no rebuild) he changes everything and now it's a rebuild.

It stinks of ownership meddling. And it looks like ownership is too impatient or too proud to do a proper rebuild that has the best chance of success. But that's just my impression from watching their moves over the last year or so. I literally see zero plans in action. Maybe that's Feaster, maybe that's ownership, who knows.

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06-21-2013, 07:41 PM
  #85
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It's like you keep posting the same thing without reading what others are saying. You are mocking the Flames because some guy on a forum suggested signing Bickell as a possibility.

Who has more draft picks in this draft? Who did the Flames trade at the trade deadline? Who will likely finish last next season?

Everything suggests the Flames are rebuilding and will take their time, including management, yet you still seem to think the Flames are acting like "lulz rebuild 5 years 6 mil for bickell".
Alright, fine. I personally hope they really are taking their time. We'll see in the off-season if the Flames really are committed to a rebuild.

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06-21-2013, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
It's just backwards. I mean, rebuilding is more than just throwing players onto a team and saying "ok, go". It needs momentum, and players need to buy into it. The only way you get superstars is if you're in the top 3 position overall, or maybe if you get lucky. Good GMs won't count on luck.

The crap that comes out of Feaster's mouth makes me question if he even has an idea about what he's supposed to be doing. The mandate in Calgary changes every month and the minute Feaster gets working on one thing (IE, making the playoffs and no rebuild) he changes everything and now it's a rebuild.

It stinks of ownership meddling. And it looks like ownership is too impatient or too proud to do a proper rebuild that has the best chance of success. But that's just my impression from watching their moves over the last year or so. I literally see zero plans in action. Maybe that's Feaster, maybe that's ownership, who knows.
????????????????????????????????????????????????

The mandate has changed ONCE. From going for it with Iginla and crew, to rebuilding with Baertschi and higher draft picks.

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06-21-2013, 07:56 PM
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Glencross took a discount to get his NTC because he wants to be in Alberta regardless of how we do. He wants to win but only here and is willing to be one of the veterans that sees us through the rebuild. Glencross will not waive his NTC so it is moronic to talk about him being traded.
Time will tell. Iggy eventually moved on despite being "a never move on" player. The only problem is they moved on much to late to maximize his trade value.

When Calgary has no hope of making the playoffs before training camp begins and Glencross sees his buddies like Iggy, JayBo, etc. getting chances to play for something will he change his mind? I'm betting he will and if he doesn't the organization still needs to try and ship him out to get something for him instead of losing him as a free agent next season or him just become an old diminishing player. He will be 31 this season and secondary players a lot of the time can be washed up and out of the league a few short seasons after peaking in their late 20s.

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06-21-2013, 08:13 PM
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I was referring more to Ottawa's model.
Ottawa had a top scoring center in Speeza, a still very valuable but aging Alffy and hit an absolute homerun in the draft with Karlsson.

The only core piece on a top team the Flames have is Giordano who'd probably be more like the 5th to 7th piece on a contender, a very very good but not elite prospect in Baertschi and an average prospect pool.

Flames fans are in for a few painful years.

If they had of choose to sell their secondary assets 4 or 5 years ago it could have been a retool like Ottawa but now it needs to be a complete rebuild.


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06-21-2013, 08:18 PM
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????????????????????????????????????????????????

The mandate has changed ONCE. From going for it with Iginla and crew, to rebuilding with Baertschi and higher draft picks.
If I wanted facts I wouldn't be on HF.

The notion that Feaster can't make up his mind is hilarious he tried to surround Iginla and co with talent to win and when our goaltending fell apart we pulled the plug and started the rebuild. We are looking to become tough to play against in order to not just protect the youth but make our team at least something to play against. We don't expect to make the playoffs but the notion that only top 3 picks build teams is retarded and flat out wrong.

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Time will tell. Iggy eventually moved on despite being "a never move on" player. The only problem is they moved on much to late to maximize his trade value.

When Calgary has no hope of making the playoffs before training camp begins and Glencross sees his buddies like Iggy, JayBo, etc. getting chances to play for something will he change his mind? I'm betting he will and if he doesn't the organization still needs to try and ship him out to get something for him instead of losing him as a free agent next season or him just become an old diminishing player. He will be 31 this season and secondary players a lot of the time can be washed up and out of the league a few short seasons after peaking in their late 20s.
Glencross owns a farm, is a huge cowboy, and is very involved with the Stampede. He loves hockey and winning but is equally concerned about where he will be living as he cares about his farm and farming lifestyle just as much. He had the chance to walk and go to a contender and ask Feaster for a NTC because he doesn't want to go anywhere but here.

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06-21-2013, 08:18 PM
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The Flames obviously aren't close to the situation Ottawa was in, but how is Giordano a 5th-7th defenceman? How is Baertschi not an elite prospect?

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06-21-2013, 08:24 PM
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Bickell has always had the tools, and always been able to put them together, but his issue has always been effort. It's why he got benched last year for so long. If I'm bowman I'm real nervous about paying him anything above $2.5 next year

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06-21-2013, 08:24 PM
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Ottawa had a top scoring center in Speeza, a still very valuable but aging Alffy and hit an absolute homerun in the draft with Karlsson.

The only core piece on a top team the Flames have is Giordano who'd probably be more like the 5th to 7th piece on a contender, a very very good but not elite prospect in Baertschi and an average prospect.

Flames fans are in for a few painful years.

If they had of choose to sell their secondary assets 4 or 5 years ago it could have been a retool like Ottawa but now it needs to be a complete rebuild.
If that is true than Spezza was a average top 6 centerman and Karlsson was a decent prospect

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06-21-2013, 08:26 PM
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The Flames obviously aren't close to the situation Ottawa was in, but how is Giordano a 5th-7th defenceman? How is Baertschi not an elite prospect?
I meant the 5 to 7th most important player if you looked at teams like Chicago, Boston, Pittsburgh, LA. He is a very good player but he isn't close to being a superstar.

Baertschi is a very very good prospect but I don't see him being the next perennial all-star building block player like Iggy was which is why I don't classify him as elite. He should be a very good player but perennial top 25 or so scorer building block player I highly doubt.

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06-21-2013, 08:28 PM
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The Flames obviously aren't close to the situation Ottawa was in, but how is Giordano a 5th-7th defenceman? How is Baertschi not an elite prospect?
He's saying if he was part of an elite team, Giordano would be the 5th-7th most valuable player, not a 5th-7th d-man. I can't comment on Baertschi.

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06-21-2013, 08:30 PM
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Pure speculation, but take it for what it's worth. Flames GM Jay Feaster has made it clear he wants to make his team "tougher" to play against. Bickell will be his ideal target. Plus ownership have also made it abundantly clear they have no interest in waiting 3-5 years for their prospects to develop.

Expect a 5 year offer in the $4.5 - 5 million/year range.
First off why would Bickell go from a possible Stanley Cup winning Chicago Blackhawks to Calgary sorry i dont see it happening and the way that Calgary is tearing apart the club why would Bickell play on a rebuilding club and Calgary would be dumb enough to grossly over pay Bickell who at the most is only worth $3 million and they would pay him $4.5 million to $5 million yeah good luck with that.

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06-21-2013, 08:34 PM
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First off why would Bickell go from a possible Stanley Cup winning Chicago Blackhawks to Calgary sorry i dont see it happening and the way that Calgary is tearing apart the club why would Bickell play on a rebuilding club and Calgary would be dumb enough to grossly over pay Bickell who at the most is only worth $3 million and they would pay him $4.5 million to $5 million yeah good luck with that.
I want you to be right, but unfortunately the low bids are likely going to be $3m.

And why not Calgary? The only reason he would leave Chicago would be for money. If Feaster offers him the most money, I see no reason why he wouldn't take it.

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06-21-2013, 08:39 PM
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First off why would Bickell go from a possible Stanley Cup winning Chicago Blackhawks to Calgary sorry i dont see it happening and the way that Calgary is tearing apart the club why would Bickell play on a rebuilding club and Calgary would be dumb enough to grossly over pay Bickell who at the most is only worth $3 million and they would pay him $4.5 million to $5 million yeah good luck with that.
Yea it would really hurt our cap for the next few years I mean you need tons of cap room for all of your rookies right?

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06-21-2013, 08:45 PM
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Actually it's a retool. It's the same crap that Toronto pulled for years. Do you know the difference between a rebuild and a retool? During a rebuild you acquire high quality players through the draft. A retool has you chasing overpriced FAs in the hopes they will solve all your problems. AKA Bryan Bickell at $4M+/year.

If you expect the 6th overall to be your savior I'd be worried. Those other first rounders are a few years from having any sort of impact.

You have no stars and you can't attract any either. We went through this phase, too, with the Heatley and Hossa saga. Looks like the Flames want to emulate that part of our history too.

Call it whatever you want. No one should believe anything Feaster says anyway. From "If management wants to rebuild they can find another GM to do it" to "Guess it's a rebuild".
The other differences is that rebuilds take at least like 5 years and 5 (or more, preferably) coaches during that span

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06-21-2013, 09:09 PM
  #99
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Bickell will probably get 4.25-4.5 with term from whoever targets him and he probably won't be worth it.

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06-21-2013, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Yea it would really hurt our cap for the next few years I mean you need tons of cap room for all of your rookies right?
No where did i mention hurting your cap? All i said is that it would be dumb to way over pay for Bickell it's going to take tons of help to save Calgary once they finish cleaning house.

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