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Seattle III: All Along the Watchtower (UPD: Rumored expansion 2014-15 Post#829)

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06-24-2013, 03:12 PM
  #101
gstommylee
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Originally Posted by MuzikMachine View Post
How busy is Key Arena with non-sports events? There are some teams such as the Oilers that use their home arena as their default practice arena (some practices are elsewhere), could a Seattle NHL team do that as well?
There are other ice rinks seattle could use as practices in the region.

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06-24-2013, 03:16 PM
  #102
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How busy is Key Arena with non-sports events? There are some teams such as the Oilers that use their home arena as their default practice arena (some practices are elsewhere), could a Seattle NHL team do that as well?
Off and on. I think using Showare Center in Kent makes the most sense.

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06-24-2013, 03:25 PM
  #103
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The Canucks use Rogers Arena to practice as well

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06-24-2013, 03:33 PM
  #104
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Why not just modify the old Arena at Seattle Center (not the Key) and use that? The Showare Center idea seems good, but I don't think that the Thunderbirds and the City of Kent, after a while when they're hurt from the NHL coming, would be keen about that.

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06-24-2013, 03:45 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
Why not just modify the old Arena at Seattle Center (not the Key) and use that? The Showare Center idea seems good, but I don't think that the Thunderbirds and the City of Kent, after a while when they're hurt from the NHL coming, would be keen about that.
I don't think it is going to hurt, I actually think it might help. Besides, I do believe Showare center is losing money, not sure they can turn away usage of the ice facilities there.

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06-24-2013, 04:04 PM
  #106
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Why not just modify the old Arena at Seattle Center (not the Key) and use that? The Showare Center idea seems good, but I don't think that the Thunderbirds and the City of Kent, after a while when they're hurt from the NHL coming, would be keen about that.
Currently being used as storage for the Opera House I believe which is a shame because there is a ton of history in that old building.

Would need a ton put into it to make it an acceptable facility though and as someone else noted, the Showare Center in Kent is losing money and would jump at the chance to host the NHL team for practice and collect those $'s.

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06-24-2013, 04:20 PM
  #107
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I don't think you could fit a full sheet of ice in there anyway unless a bunch of work was put in to it. When the T-Birds played in there the ice had pretty close to square corners. I remember watching the puck shot to the corner and nobody wanted to go after it because they were going to get destroyed.

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06-24-2013, 04:25 PM
  #108
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Welcome to HF boards Kodi

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06-24-2013, 04:33 PM
  #109
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Thanks!

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06-24-2013, 04:35 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
Why not just modify the old Arena at Seattle Center (not the Key) and use that? The Showare Center idea seems good, but I don't think that the Thunderbirds and the City of Kent, after a while when they're hurt from the NHL coming, would be keen about that.
Are you talking about Mercer Arena? The Seattle Opera is using the Mercer Arena space for storage and set construction.

(Seattle PI article from 2010.)

Another thing to consider (from my partner who has performed there): McCaw Hall, the opera house next to the arena, was completely renovated in 2003, the year the arena was closed. It's possible that the backstage wall of McCaw was constructed so close to the arena that there are now insufficient fire exits for spectators, which wouldn't be a problem at a practice facility but would preclude its use for a public event.

Finally, the cost to refurbish Mercer, at least according to the Wiki article, could be in the $20 million range. The article does not indicate if the ice plant is still intact.

It may have been a good idea if there was an NHL team in Seattle 20-30 years ago but, bottom line, due to lack of finances, insufficient infrastructure and logistical reasons, I don't believe Mercer Arena can be used for a practice facility.


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06-24-2013, 04:52 PM
  #111
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The NHL used the tools they had at their disposal, but I don't think the NHL used Winnipeg as so much as Winnipeg volunteered to be used by saying they were ready to buy.

There is a big difference between the NHL saying we might move a team to XYZ, and actually having the purchaser in Bettman's office with a cheque already to go and Bettman telling the CoG they are facing a 5:00pm deadline.

So far all we have seen from the NHL for the last year is wishy-washy at best. Grow a pair and give the CoG a real deadline again. Get this over with.
Yes. I think we agree.

Winnipeg was a real threat. They could have pulled the trigger on that threat in May 2010, but Glendale caved-in.

Seattle was a weaker threat. As much as I like the idea of Seattle being an NHL city next season, I think (and its very debateable) that it would have been setting the city up to fail. Give Seattle 2 or 3 years to prepare with a new arena, and then we're talking.

Quebec on the other hand was/is a viable threat. So why not just leak Quebec's name to the media? My guess is Quebec didn't want to play ball? Its all just speculation???

Maybe the NHL was serious and would have moved to Seattle on July 2nd? I really don't believe it, but when it comes to the Coyotes fiasco, never say never

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06-24-2013, 05:02 PM
  #112
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Yes. I think we agree.

Winnipeg was a real threat. They could have pulled the trigger on that threat in May 2010, but Glendale caved-in.

Seattle was a weaker threat. As much as I like the idea of Seattle being an NHL city next season, I think (and its very debateable) that it would have been setting the city up to fail. Give Seattle 2 or 3 years to prepare with a new arena, and then we're talking.

Quebec on the other hand was/is a viable threat. So why not just leak Quebec's name to the media? My guess is Quebec didn't want to play ball? Its all just speculation???

Maybe the NHL was serious and would have moved to Seattle on July 2nd? I really don't believe it, but when it comes to the Coyotes fiasco, never say never
The selling price of 220 million seemed way to high for Seattle, in my opinion. Maybe that is the price the league wanted from Quebec. Meanwhile Quebec probably has a standing offer of 170 million. So Gary couldn't use Quebec as plan B.

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06-24-2013, 05:08 PM
  #113
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The selling price of 220 million seemed way to high for Seattle, in my opinion. Maybe that is the price the league wanted from Quebec. Meanwhile Quebec probably has a standing offer of 170 million. So Gary couldn't use Quebec as plan B.
How is it high for seattle?

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06-24-2013, 05:08 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Charon of Styx View Post
The selling price of 220 million seemed way to high for Seattle, in my opinion. Maybe that is the price the league wanted from Quebec. Meanwhile Quebec probably has a standing offer of 170 million. So Gary couldn't use Quebec as plan B.
What makes you think 220 is too high? I know its more than valuation of the yotes, but if new owners feel that 220 is the amount they feel it is worth?

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06-24-2013, 05:20 PM
  #115
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It was rumored that the 220 included the relocation cost

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06-24-2013, 05:23 PM
  #116
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It was rumored that the 220 included the relocation cost
Interesting, first I had heard of that. Would make sense though.

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06-24-2013, 05:24 PM
  #117
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What makes you think 220 is too high? I know its more than valuation of the yotes, but if new owners feel that 220 is the amount they feel it is worth?
Look what other teams have sold for, none come close to 220. Almost all teams that sold included the arena or plenty of neighboring real estate. The Habs went for 500
But that included the Bell Center. A new arena is worth 300 by itself.

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06-24-2013, 05:29 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Charon of Styx View Post
Look what other teams have sold for, none come close to 220. Almost all teams that sold included the arena or plenty of neighboring real estate. The Habs went for 500
But that included the Bell Center. A new arena is worth 300 by itself.
Doesn't seem way out of place based on the Forbes values. Middle of the pack for the league.

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations...on:asc_search:

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06-24-2013, 05:29 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Charon of Styx View Post
Look what other teams have sold for, none come close to 220. Almost all teams that sold included the arena or plenty of neighboring real estate. The Habs went for 500
But that included the Bell Center. A new arena is worth 300 by itself.
Maybe the new owners feel that with new building and RSN they can get good ROI?

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06-24-2013, 05:44 PM
  #120
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Doesn't seem way out of place based on the Forbes values. Middle of the pack for the league.

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations...on:asc_search:
What Forbes guesstimate and what actually happens are 2 different things. For example they claim Dallas is worth 240 but in 2011 gagliardi bought the stars and 50% of the American Airlines Arena for 265. The American Airlines arena cost over 400 million to build. Atlanta sold for 110 Gary added 60 as a relocation. Cost. Tampa sold for 200 but there was all kinds of other real estate thrown in.

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06-24-2013, 07:02 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Charon of Styx View Post
What Forbes guesstimate and what actually happens are 2 different things. For example they claim Dallas is worth 240 but in 2011 gagliardi bought the stars and 50% of the American Airlines Arena for 265. The American Airlines arena cost over 400 million to build. Atlanta sold for 110 Gary added 60 as a relocation. Cost. Tampa sold for 200 but there was all kinds of other real estate thrown in.
The major difference being the league owns the team and (right or wrong) doesn't want to sell it on blue light special. So - you end up having this saga drag on for X number of years. Forbes is like a psuedo appraisal of franchise value and the NHL is sticking to their number to sell.

Plus - as someone else noted, it likely includes a relocation fee.

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06-24-2013, 07:32 PM
  #122
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Welcome to HF boards Kodi
SD nice to see the avatar change!

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06-24-2013, 07:39 PM
  #123
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There is probably mention of this on the Phoenix boards, so apologies in advance to the mods if this is in the wrong spot. From CD5:

Quote:
Chris Daniels ‏@ChrisDaniels5 2h
MT @PaulGiblinAriz: #Glendale will not release deal pts of emerging #Coyotes agreement today. City Council will meet in private again Tues.
Also, I see a lot of you had thoughts on the practice facility thing, and my suggestions about Castle Ice, so thanks. The reason I was using Castle Ice as the example is isn't that the one Huscroft owns? Reason I ask is that perhaps if it came to it, his NHL connections could help him land that business. BTW, the reason it's probably run down if that's the case is the damn building it's in used to be a grocery store in a strip mall that's pretty non-descript up there by Liberty HS.

I will say ShoWare or Everett or Key Arena itself might be better facilities, but my guess is that such a facility will end up being on the Eastside if one is built. I'd think Bellevue or Issaquah.

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06-24-2013, 08:00 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by maruk14 View Post
Doesn't seem way out of place based on the Forbes values. Middle of the pack for the league.

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations...on:asc_search:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charon of Styx View Post
What Forbes guesstimate and what actually happens are 2 different things. For example they claim Dallas is worth 240 but in 2011 gagliardi bought the stars and 50% of the American Airlines Arena for 265. The American Airlines arena cost over 400 million to build. Atlanta sold for 110 Gary added 60 as a relocation. Cost. Tampa sold for 200 but there was all kinds of other real estate thrown in.
These things shouldn't be an indictment of the Forbes values; or imply anything about markets.

Selling a franchise is a negotiation, business men are savvy negotiators and for a franchise changes hands, the owner has to have the motivation to sell.

Either the owner wants out and the buyer has the negotiating power to get the team cheaper than franchise value;
Or the owner has no reason to sell unless he's blown out of the water.

The NHL has to play hardball, because they can't let the appearance of value for its franchises slip; and all these prospective or would-be owners are bargain hunting. Ice Edge, Reinsdorf, Balsillie, Stotland, True North, Hulsizer, Reinsdorf again, Jamison, Renaissance Sports & Entertainment (mostly Ice Edge again) have all kicked the tires on the Coyotes not necessarily because they are interested in owning a hockey team in Phoenix, but because they see an opportunity to get a valuable asset at a discount price.


Last edited by KevFu: 06-24-2013 at 08:09 PM.
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06-24-2013, 08:15 PM
  #125
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These things shouldn't be an indictment of the Forbes values; or imply anything about markets.

Selling a franchise is a negotiation, business men are savvy negotiators and for a franchise changes hands, the owner has to have the motivation to sell.

Either the owner wants out and the buyer has the negotiating power to get the team cheaper than franchise value;
Or the owner has no reason to sell unless he's blown out of the water.

The NHL has to play hardball, because they can't let the appearance of value for its franchises slip; and all these prospective or would-be owners are bargain hunting. Ice Edge, Reinsdorf, Balsillie, Stotland, True North, Hulsizer, Reinsdorf again, Jamison, Renaissance Sports & Entertainment (mostly Ice Edge again) have all kicked the tires on the Coyotes not necessarily because they are interested in owning a hockey team in Phoenix, but because they see an opportunity to get a valuable asset at a discount price.
Yeah the NHL is really playing hardball with RSE, 45 million down borrow the rest, we'll even supply an 80.million dollaR line of credit at no interest.

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