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Wild interested in Fleury

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Old
06-23-2013, 06:53 PM
  #176
Bookman
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The Wild would be better off trading for one of your defense prospects than Fleury. I'd rather go for DePres.

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06-23-2013, 06:53 PM
  #177
Billy Mays Here
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwanmaster View Post
To Min:
Fleury
Letang

To Pit:
Granlund
Clutterbuck
Kuemper
3rd
No, just no, neither team does that, and there's this thing called a salary cap you know.

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Old
06-23-2013, 08:33 PM
  #178
Frodo Baggins
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No, just no, neither team does that, and there's this thing called a salary cap you know.
haha my thoughts exactly

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06-23-2013, 08:44 PM
  #179
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No, just no, neither team does that, and there's this thing called a salary cap you know.
Not in the land of NHL 13

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Old
06-23-2013, 10:02 PM
  #180
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I find it hard to believe there are people in Pittsburgh who still think this.

The types of goals that Fleury lets in or kicks rebounds back into the slot on (long, weak wrist shots...weak shots from bad angles...any play that involves the puck crossing the icing line anywhere) are not the types of shots that are better prevented by any strategy that any coach other than Bylsma uses (keep the puck out of the zone as much as possible...when it's in the zone, allow no cross ice passes between the circles).

I've got some problems with Bylsma, but it's just crazy to blame him for Fleury's bad goals, which have been a fixture of his game in the playoffs every year he's been there (now, in the minors and in juniors)--other than 2008. Fleury was actually worse for Todd Richards than he ever has been for Dan Bylsma, which is startling.
actually the type of goals that MAF lets in are from all kinds of different places and situations, the ones that you remember are the ones that you mentioned.

look at these playoffs and look at the number of times that these goals were scored on MAF because of a bad defensive zone decision or because our guys didn't play the situation correct.

now, is that completely on Bylsma? heck no. i'm not one who blames Dan Bylsma for global warming and Kim Kardashian's fame.

the players are certainly responsible also, but it starts with the coach.

we can disagree here, but I don't think it's random that MAF's best years in the playoffs were when he had a team play the most defensive style hockey since he got here.


is it completely bylsma? no. but I think if you put him on a team with a better defensive system and a better style, you'll get different results.

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06-23-2013, 10:11 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Ogelthorpe View Post
If positioning is in fact the difference between MAF and TV, then you are blaming the wrong coach.

However, here is why I disagree with your post.
1) An athletic goalie will always have a better chance at stopping a defensive meltdown than a "technique" guy. Look at NYR for example. When the Rangers play great D, Hank is just about unbeatable because of his positioning, technique, etc. It's when their defensive system breaks down that Hank becomes vulnerable. Position guys flourish in a defensive system.

2) If MAF simply couldn't perform due to Bylsma's system, MAF wouldn't be able to be as good as he is in the regular season. The fact that he can perform in the regular season, and not in the playoffs lately, would indicate more of a mental issue with the playoffs, rather than some technique flaw or being in an inappropriate system.

MAF has the tools to play behind any defensive system....he just needs to get his mental game in focus.
1) not true at all. MAF has a tendency to overplay pucks and fall out of position. he doesn't just line up out of position. whether it's him coming out of the net too far to take an angle away or whether he moves post to post too quickly, he usually overcommits and moves to quickly and too far.

and when that happens and when defensive style and coverage don't cover every man out there, goals happen.

vokoun on the other hand is a very good goalie who likes to stay as squared to the puck and who usually stays in good position relative to the players on the ice. when a guy blows an assignment, vokoun is there. the only downside with Vokoun was that he put a lot of rebounds in front of him instead of covering him. luckily the penguins actually cleared the front of the net for once and he was fine because his positioning was well enough to make the second save.

im not disagreeing with your original point, it is true for a number of instances, but I don't think it's true with these two.

2) regular season and playoffs are 100% different with the penguins. in the regular season, other teams don't take the time to scout and matchup with their opponent as they do in the regular season. if teams tried to prepare in the regular season like they do in the playoffs, they'd lose their minds.

that's the problem with the penguins. in the regular season, no one really tries to match the penguins system which is why you see guys put up career offensive numbers because at that point, the penguins talent becomes too much for them.

in the playoffs however, teams take the time to match up and figure out the best way to combat bylsma's 1-D system. some teams like Ottawa don't have the team structure to do so and not the talent to make up for it. some teams like the Islanders have the structure but not the talent. but when they run against a team like boston who has the talent and structure... well you remember the ECF.

maybe im reading too much into this, and I could very well be. but to me, you wont see the penguins win another cup as long as both Bylsma and MAF are there.

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06-23-2013, 10:12 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwanmaster View Post
To Min:
Fleury
Letang

To Pit:
Granlund
Clutterbuck
Kuemper
3rd
hell no.

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Old
06-23-2013, 10:13 PM
  #183
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I see Mike Smith written all over the wall in Minnesota

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06-24-2013, 12:34 AM
  #184
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I see Mike Smith written all over the wall in Minnesota
I hope not.. he is overpayed, has anger issues and is a total backup goalie

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06-24-2013, 12:37 AM
  #185
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I hope not.. he is overpayed, has anger issues and is a total backup goalie
Anger issues? lolwat? source?

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Old
06-24-2013, 12:49 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by superhenderson13 View Post
actually the type of goals that MAF lets in are from all kinds of different places and situations, the ones that you remember are the ones that you mentioned.

look at these playoffs and look at the number of times that these goals were scored on MAF because of a bad defensive zone decision or because our guys didn't play the situation correct.

now, is that completely on Bylsma? heck no. i'm not one who blames Dan Bylsma for global warming and Kim Kardashian's fame.

the players are certainly responsible also, but it starts with the coach.

we can disagree here, but I don't think it's random that MAF's best years in the playoffs were when he had a team play the most defensive style hockey since he got here.


is it completely bylsma? no. but I think if you put him on a team with a better defensive system and a better style, you'll get different results.
I'll go game by game, if you want, but at least half of the goals Fleury let in were stoppable pucks that had nothing to do with systems. A full quarter of them weren't even on scoring chances.

Even if you want to pretend those didn't happen and blame every single remaining goal on Dan Bylsma, Fleury would have had a .937 save percentage and a 1.86 save percentage on those plays.

In other words, in Dan Bylsma's system, without him crapping his pants on plays like I've described, Fleury would basically have been Rask. That he didn't stop many, many stoppable shots is on him. Not the coach.

And as an FYI, Fleury's AHL playoff numbers are even worse than his NHL playoff numbers. Bylsma wasn't his coach in that league, nor was his team playing a run and gun style.

Dan Bylsma has a lot that can be hung around his neck. Fleury's struggles are not among them.

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Old
06-24-2013, 01:02 AM
  #187
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Old
06-24-2013, 03:30 AM
  #188
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I am not going to participate in the evaluation of Fleury either way.

Just say that if rumors about Wild being in the Bernier game were true, then this here thread has become a little more relevant. Russo is one of the more credible writers around, and there is enough past there with Fletcher/Yeo to think that they could be more into Fleury than most.

At least until there is a conclusion as to Backstrom, this suddenly has a bit of legs.

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06-24-2013, 06:31 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
I see Mike Smith written all over the wall in Minnesota
If our only option was to sign Smith as #1 then the job would be given to Harding.

Smith will never be a Wild player. Ever.

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06-24-2013, 08:11 AM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
I am not going to participate in the evaluation of Fleury either way.

Just say that if rumors about Wild being in the Bernier game were true, then this here thread has become a little more relevant. Russo is one of the more credible writers around, and there is enough past there with Fletcher/Yeo to think that they could be more into Fleury than most.

At least until there is a conclusion as to Backstrom, this suddenly has a bit of legs.
I agree. I would imagine another player who needs a change of scenery could be included in a potential deal who has lots of potential and given their history with the Pens, are probably aware that he'd be a bargain of an acquisition... Dustin Jeffrey.

Given their cap situation, having a flexible & useful player like Dustin can pay dividends for them.

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06-24-2013, 09:09 AM
  #191
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I agree. I would imagine another player who needs a change of scenery could be included in a potential deal who has lots of potential and given their history with the Pens, are probably aware that he'd be a bargain of an acquisition... Dustin Jeffrey.

Given their cap situation, having a flexible & useful player like Dustin can pay dividends for them.
I hope Dustin isn't moved, i'd prefer seeing Kennedy go but he's an RFA

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06-24-2013, 09:15 AM
  #192
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I hope Dustin isn't moved, i'd prefer seeing Kennedy go but he's an RFA
Come on, Jeffrey is nothing special, he is a dime a dozen playet. He played very well for a short span several seasons ago and that's it. He did not get a great deal of chances to play with the big guns but he never really forced Bylsma to use him. He is the definition of replaceable.

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06-24-2013, 09:16 AM
  #193
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Fleury needs a new start with a new team. Wouldn't surprise me if Pittsburgh traded him to Minnesota. Pittsburgh in turn would probably sign Mike Smith to be their #1 goalie for next year or use the assets they acquired for Fleury (I'm thinking some prospects and a bottom 6 player) to get themselves a #1 goalie.

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06-24-2013, 10:02 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by superhenderson13 View Post
1) not true at all. MAF has a tendency to overplay pucks and fall out of position. he doesn't just line up out of position. whether it's him coming out of the net too far to take an angle away or whether he moves post to post too quickly, he usually overcommits and moves to quickly and too far.

and when that happens and when defensive style and coverage don't cover every man out there, goals happen.

vokoun on the other hand is a very good goalie who likes to stay as squared to the puck and who usually stays in good position relative to the players on the ice. when a guy blows an assignment, vokoun is there. the only downside with Vokoun was that he put a lot of rebounds in front of him instead of covering him. luckily the penguins actually cleared the front of the net for once and he was fine because his positioning was well enough to make the second save.

im not disagreeing with your original point, it is true for a number of instances, but I don't think it's true with these two.

2) regular season and playoffs are 100% different with the penguins. in the regular season, other teams don't take the time to scout and matchup with their opponent as they do in the regular season. if teams tried to prepare in the regular season like they do in the playoffs, they'd lose their minds.

that's the problem with the penguins. in the regular season, no one really tries to match the penguins system which is why you see guys put up career offensive numbers because at that point, the penguins talent becomes too much for them.

in the playoffs however, teams take the time to match up and figure out the best way to combat bylsma's 1-D system. some teams like Ottawa don't have the team structure to do so and not the talent to make up for it. some teams like the Islanders have the structure but not the talent. but when they run against a team like boston who has the talent and structure... well you remember the ECF.

maybe im reading too much into this, and I could very well be. but to me, you wont see the penguins win another cup as long as both Bylsma and MAF are there.
Once again, you are blaming the wrong coach. If MAF is doing these things you mention wrong, and TV plays a better game for our system as you say, then it was up to Meloche to tell MAF to not be too aggressive and use TV's game as an example. It's the goalie who needs to read and react to game situations and adjust accordingly, and I say this as a guy who played the position and currently coach the position. TV was able to get the job done behind the same players/mistakes that MAF was seeing.

As for your comment about MAF having his best years when the team played its best defensively in front of him.....well, no duh! Every goalie should have their best performances/numbers when the team plays it's best in front of them. This isn't specific to MAF. The whole idea is to play great in both zones, regardless of who is in net.

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06-24-2013, 10:03 AM
  #195
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Fleury needs a new start with a new team. Wouldn't surprise me if Pittsburgh traded him to Minnesota. Pittsburgh in turn would probably sign Mike Smith to be their #1 goalie for next year or use the assets they acquired for Fleury (I'm thinking some prospects and a bottom 6 player) to get themselves a #1 goalie.
How about if the Wild just sign Smith and we call it a day?

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06-24-2013, 10:07 AM
  #196
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Pretty sure given the open support the entire Penguins organization has given Marc-Andre Fleury recently, he is 100% not going anywhere before the start of the 2013-14 season.

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06-24-2013, 10:21 AM
  #197
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Pretty sure given the open support the entire Penguins organization has given Marc-Andre Fleury recently, he is 100% not going anywhere before the start of the 2013-14 season.
I would agree with this.

There is only 2 things that could happen that makes RS move MAF

1) Some team throws out an offer that Shero just can't say no to...ie, huge overpayment.
2) Letang resigns at an amount that is higher than expected and Shero gets a pretty good offer for MAF and moves MAF to clear up some cap space.

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06-24-2013, 01:37 PM
  #198
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Well, this can be closed now.

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Old
06-24-2013, 01:39 PM
  #199
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Well, I guess Fleury to Minnesota is not an option anymore with the recent signing of Niklas Backstrom.

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06-24-2013, 04:13 PM
  #200
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Well, I guess Fleury to Minnesota is not an option anymore with the recent signing of Niklas Backstrom.
Spot on..

It think we are done here..

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