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Did we win the Kessel deal yet?

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06-30-2013, 04:30 AM
  #1
Tdot Soldier
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Did we win the Kessel deal yet?

Remember when everyone said that we got fleeced by Boston in the Kessel deal and everyone would of reversed the trade if they could? With Seguins recent downslide and Boston possibly shopping him, is it possible to say on HFboards now that we might of actually won that trade?

Let's face it, Kessel>Seguin ainec

Should there be a massive "crow feast" in the hockey universe?

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06-30-2013, 04:32 AM
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06-30-2013, 04:35 AM
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Still too early to say in my opinion.

But usually its said that the team that gets the best player wins the trade, so so far its looking good for us, partially because what we gave up wasn't a #1 franchise centermen.

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06-30-2013, 04:36 AM
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Still too early to say in my opinion.

But usually its said that the team that gets the best player wins the trade, so so far its looking good for us, partially because what we gave up wasn't a #1 franchise centermen.
Yea no doubt seguin could go on and be amazing but for the last couple years the general consensus was that "we took it up the a**" in the deal. Now it's not looking remotely lopsided at all.

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06-30-2013, 04:49 AM
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The difference make is going to be Dougie Hamilton IMO. I can't see Seguin becoming better than Phil Kessel. Franchise forwards such as Phil are not that common.

Hamilton, on the other hand, can be what Phaneuf is to us, but with much better skating. If he can move the puck out of the zone better than Dion, he's going to be amazing to watch. Defenceman tend to take longer to develop, but I can see him entering full time soon.

Knight may become a good complimentary player that pops 20 goals while providing energy. It will be interesting to see if Boston is going to put him on a line with a playmaker ( Seguin?).

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06-30-2013, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Tdot Soldier View Post
Yea no doubt seguin could go on and be amazing but for the last couple years the general consensus was that "we took it up the a**" in the deal. Now it's not looking remotely lopsided at all.
Their stats after 3 years in to their pro careers are practically identical.. It was lousy trade, I won't characterize it in the same way you did, but that will be determined if Phil signs his extension or not... BTW where are we at with that extension? I don't hear a peep about it.

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06-30-2013, 04:57 AM
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Their stats after 3 years in to their pro careers are practically identical.. It was lousy trade, I won't characterize it in the same way you did, but that will be determined if Phil signs his extension or not... BTW where are we at with that extension? I don't hear a peep about it.
Their stats may be similar but I think you can agree that Kessel showed more "superstar upside" in his first 3 years than Seguin has. Seguin has a lot of skills but I wouldn't call any of his skills top tier elite, unlike kessel. He's also proven to be more effective when it counts.

I fully agree with you that an extension will be a key point in us winning this deal.

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06-30-2013, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Tdot Soldier View Post
Their stats may be similar but I think you can agree that Kessel showed more "superstar upside" in his first 3 years than Seguin has. Seguin has a lot of skills but I wouldn't call any of his skills top tier elite, unlike kessel. He's also proven to be more effective when it counts.

I fully agree with you that an extension will be a key point in us winning this deal.
I wholeheartedly reject that assessment. Just because you want it that way doesn't necessarily make it so. And that's not because I feel Seguin has shown more "superstar upside" in his first 3 years than Kessel. I'm saying Kessel hasn't shown me superstar after 6 seasons. Most agree Kessel to this point is a complimentary player, not THE go to Guy. Anyway, talk of Kessel only pisses me off. I'm not his biggest fan. I'll go prepare for my draft day BBQ party.


Last edited by Mr Writer: 06-30-2013 at 05:12 AM.
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06-30-2013, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
I wholeheartedly reject that assessment. Just because you want it that way doesn't necessarily make it so.
If you think Kessel didn't show more "superstar upside" after 3 years, are you saying that you think Seguin could fetch two 1sts and 2nd now? Kessel was considered more of lock than Seguin after 3 years.

edit: I see you edited your post, enjoy your BBQ

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06-30-2013, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Tdot Soldier View Post
If you think Kessel didn't show more "superstar upside" after 3 years, are you saying that you think Seguin could fetch two 1sts and 2nd now? Kessel was considered more of lock than Seguin after 3 years.

edit: I see you edited your post, enjoy your BBQ
Yes but the consensus among the hockey world is that kessel never ever should have fetched that price.

Seguin not being worth that doesn't mean kessel was. Remember...the bruins got hamilton too........it's gonna take longer than this to know who truly won it, but if seguin becomes and remains a 30 goal scorer and hamilton develops into what he should...than you guys have been outrageously robbed. Kessel has one dimension...seguin is more allrounded.

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06-30-2013, 05:36 AM
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How is Knight doing?

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06-30-2013, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by dreamingofdrouin View Post
Yes but the consensus among the hockey world is that kessel never ever should have fetched that price.

Seguin not being worth that doesn't mean kessel was. Remember...the bruins got hamilton too........it's gonna take longer than this to know who truly won it, but if seguin becomes and remains a 30 goal scorer and hamilton develops into what he should...than you guys have been outrageously robbed. Kessel has one dimension...seguin is more allrounded.
what tools is seguin "more allrounded" in?

1. Shot Quality (both Velocity/Accuracy) = Kessel (elite)
2. Skating Effectiveness (both Speed/Agility) = Kessel (elite)
3. Passing/Playmaking Ability = Kessel (elite)
4. Physical Strength / Tenacity = Seguin (seguins still no power forward)
5. Defensive Positioning/Anticipation = Seguin (not by much, kessel has vastly improved)

Seguin has a good tool set he just isn't elite in any catagorys

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06-30-2013, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
Their stats after 3 years in to their pro careers are practically identical.. It was lousy trade, I won't characterize it in the same way you did, but that will be determined if Phil signs his extension or not... BTW where are we at with that extension? I don't hear a peep about it.
It won't be handled until at least after the draft probably not until he has added some pieces from free agency. That way he can appeal to Kessel wanting to win, showing proof possibly allowing a slight discount for him to stay for 8 years.

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06-30-2013, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Tdot Soldier View Post
what tools is seguin "more allrounded" in?

1. Shot Quality (both Velocity/Accuracy) = Kessel (elite)
2. Skating Effectiveness (both Speed/Agility) = Kessel (elite)
3. Passing/Playmaking Ability = Kessel (elite)
4. Physical Strength / Tenacity = Seguin (seguins still no power forward)
5. Defensive Positioning/Anticipation = Seguin (not by much, kessel has vastly improved)

Seguin has a good tool set he just isn't elite in any catagorys
Well said. Kessel was not quite healthy in those first years due to his complications with cancer. He was poorly utilized in Boston, because he wasn't expected to be a go-to guy. When he is the conductors, he is amongst the most effective offensive guys in the NHL. Much like Patrick Kane, he is clearly going to be the go-to guy on the line and demonstrated it during the playoffs.

Our first line was a positive possession and productive line unlike the Kopitar top line. I'd even say the Getzlaf line as a whole underperformed despite being complete unlike our top scoring line. We are still missing a big two-way top centre, it produced against the Boston shut down line. That unit was able to neutralize Pittsburgh's top line, by the way.

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06-30-2013, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tdot Soldier View Post
what tools is seguin "more allrounded" in?

1. Shot Quality (both Velocity/Accuracy) = Kessel (elite)
2. Skating Effectiveness (both Speed/Agility) = Kessel (elite)
3. Passing/Playmaking Ability = Kessel (elite)
4. Physical Strength / Tenacity = Seguin (seguins still no power forward)
5. Defensive Positioning/Anticipation = Seguin (not by much, kessel has vastly improved)

Seguin has a good tool set he just isn't elite in any catagorys

Yah..i don't disagree with that assesment..but i think it's too early to write seguin off just cause of one down year....i mean he's 21 years old.....pk subban had a rough year last season...now he's a norris trophy winner.

I'm a habs fan...and i really hate boston more than toronto...but if i heard that montreal was in talks to acquire tyler seguin it would get me more excited than hearing they were trying to sign kessel. so seguin and hamilton is just never going to sound like anything other than a grave error on the part of brian burke....he just wanted his american star and he paid the price of 2 ontarion boys to get it and i really can;t see how any leafs fan is ever going to be ok with that unless seguin turns out to be a 4th liner...which i really don't see happening.

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06-30-2013, 06:35 AM
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This guy has superstar written all over him? Sorry never saw Sakic/Yzerman involved in this kind of foolishness.

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06-30-2013, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tdot Soldier View Post
Remember when everyone said that we got fleeced by Boston in the Kessel deal and everyone would of reversed the trade if they could? With Seguins recent downslide and Boston possibly shopping him, is it possible to say on HFboards now that we might of actually won that trade?

Let's face it, Kessel>Seguin ainec

Should there be a massive "crow feast" in the hockey universe?
I think we ALWAYS tied that trade. We got the best current player in the deal, and Boston got a lot too, in the way of talent for the FUTURE. That's why it's impossible to declare a winner yet.

If Boston trades Seguin for a crapload, then they're still doing very well as far as that trade goes.

And as long as we re-sign Kessel, so are we.

No need to puff out the chest over and over and act like we "won".

We BOTH won.

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06-30-2013, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by dreamingofdrouin View Post
.he just wanted his american star and he paid the price of 2 ontarion boys to get it and i really can;t see how any leafs fan is ever going to be ok with that unless seguin turns out to be a 4th liner...which i really don't see happening.
I don't care about what province the player is from like Habs fans seem to. Kessel leaving as a UFA will make it tough to lose those two, nothing else. We have a consistent top 10 scorer as a result of the trade, I'm ok with it.

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06-30-2013, 06:45 AM
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06-30-2013, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Tdot Soldier View Post
If you think Kessel didn't show more "superstar upside" after 3 years, are you saying that you think Seguin could fetch two 1sts and 2nd now? Kessel was considered more of lock than Seguin after 3 years.

edit: I see you edited your post, enjoy your BBQ
I'm saying neither Kessel or Seguin are worth that price. The fact that Burke agreed to Boston's price is only due to BB's stubbornness. I would have told PS to screw off, I'll offer sheet your player and give up a 1st and a 2nd. And if Boston matched, so be it. I would have never have made that deal to begin with. If it were me... just me being an armchair GM, my top 6 does not include one Phil Kessel. Nonis has some serious work to do now if he thinks he can build a championship caliber team with Lupul whatever center and Kessel as the first line. It ain't happening. No way no how...you may as well forget it.

Thanks. My draft party BBQs are legendary.

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06-30-2013, 06:53 AM
  #21
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Their stats are similar to start. BUT, Kessel is a playoff performer and always has been given the chance which in my opinion puts him ahead by miles.

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06-30-2013, 06:54 AM
  #22
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Yes. Burke won.

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06-30-2013, 06:55 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
I'm saying neither Kessel or Seguin are worth that price. The fact that Burke agreed to Boston's price is only due to BB's stubbornness. I would have told PS to screw off, I'll offer sheet your player and give up a 1st and a 2nd. And if Boston matched, so be it. I would have never have made that deal to begin with. If it were me... just me being an armchair GM, my top 6 does not include one Phil Kessel. Nonis has some serious work to do now if he thinks he can build a championship caliber team with Lupul whatever center and Kessel as the first line. It ain't happening. No way no how...you may as well forget it.

Thanks. My draft party BBQs are legendary.
Good thing you aren't a GM, because if you offersheet, you would have never got a kaberle deal.

Burke won both deals with Boston by not offersheeting.

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06-30-2013, 06:56 AM
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Yes. Burke won.
Agreed. He would hav won large if RW could coach is out of the bottom 5

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06-30-2013, 06:58 AM
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Kessel = top 10 scorer in the world
Seguin = Overrated soft head case
Hamilton = human pylon with little between the ears
Knight = Bust

Safe to say we won it

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