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Oilers and Gagner working on extension: [UPD: Elected Arbitration]

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06-03-2013, 02:57 PM
  #226
KlimasLoveChild
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Originally Posted by Nugie Boy View Post
At least those players can shut down the other lines when they are on their cold spells
Can Gagner be a shutdown C?
His defensive coverage is really awful. He definitely got exposed this year but Ralphs system definitely didn't do him any favors.

It has to be one of or a combination of his lack of size, quickness and defensive smarts.

Starting without the puck every time compounds his problems.

The oilers need to bring in a quality veteran center, draft Monohan or Lindholm.

Sign Gagner to 2 years at 4mil, put him on left wing. If he can't cut it this year package him in a trade to upgrade the defence or bring in a left wing replacement.

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06-03-2013, 02:57 PM
  #227
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That's just it. At least when Gagner is in a cold spell production wise, he tries to do other things to support the team. You get an extremely consistent effort out of Gags
Yes, but not a particularly effective one if he isn't scoring.

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06-03-2013, 03:01 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild View Post
His defensive coverage is really awful. He definitely got exposed this year but Ralphs system definitely didn't do him any favors.

It has to be one of or a combination of his lack of size, quickness and defensive smarts.

Starting without the puck every time compounds his problems.

The oilers need to bring in a quality veteran center, draft Monohan or Lindholm.

Sign Gagner to 2 years at 4mil, put him on left wing. If he can't cut it this year package him in a trade to upgrade the defence or bring in a left wing replacement.
I would be ok with this. As long as it is 2 years or less

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06-03-2013, 03:03 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild View Post
His defensive coverage is really awful. He definitely got exposed this year but Ralphs system definitely didn't do him any favors.

It has to be one of or a combination of his lack of size, quickness and defensive smarts.

Starting without the puck every time compounds his problems.

The oilers need to bring in a quality veteran center, draft Monohan or Lindholm.

Sign Gagner to 2 years at 4mil, put him on left wing. If he can't cut it this year package him in a trade to upgrade the defence or bring in a left wing replacement.
If Gagner could be over 50%, it would go a loooooomg way into improving his defenssive numbers. This area is very frustrating for me in regards to Gagner's weaknesses. Improve that and he becomes a much better player to me.

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06-03-2013, 04:03 PM
  #230
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If Gagner could be over 50%, it would go a loooooomg way into improving his defenssive numbers. This area is very frustrating for me in regards to Gagner's weaknesses. Improve that and he becomes a much better player to me.
Honestly he spent last summer on balance and that first step. That probably did more for him than working on draws. Although one would've hoped the team and general had practiced this.

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06-03-2013, 04:59 PM
  #231
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Lookinng back to the beginning of this thread - there were people who wanted to sign Gags for 5yrs - 25M... I think Gags signs for 1 years and then gets traded or walks. With this teams salary constraints in the long term with the big 5, I cant see Gags getting a big money long term deal. You can only keep so many small skilled forward around and by anyones measures Gags is no where near as talented as the other guys.

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06-03-2013, 05:03 PM
  #232
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So far in his career, being inconsistent is the one thing he's kept consistent. Maybe not effort wise, though, but most definitely production wise.
How so? his point totals are mirrors yearly

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06-03-2013, 05:14 PM
  #233
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I'd offer him two years at 3 1/2 per.

A slight raise. Gets the team through the Horcoff contract. If Sam has proven himself by that point then he will be in line for a big raise.

This is going to be a tough summer for free agents.

The rumour about Vancouver putting in an offer sheet on Gagner is ridiculous. Vancouver can't make any FA offers. They've got far too much payroll to cut.

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06-03-2013, 05:19 PM
  #234
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How so? his point totals are mirrors yearly
That's a reasonable point but, more specifically, his game to game consistency, production wise, has never stopped lacking.

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06-03-2013, 06:31 PM
  #235
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Yes, but not a particularly effective one if he isn't scoring.
Not true. If he's not scoring, there are other things he'll do. Like get in a fight

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06-03-2013, 07:01 PM
  #236
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It sounds like MacT thinks Gagner is a priority to keep. So I expect him to try to lock him up longer term. 4 years is still my thought. And I also think he gets more than 4M/year. I could even see a contract similar to Hemsky's old one which was 4.1 for 6 years. Which I would be fine with.

I don't really understand why people want him signed short term. Then he is a UFA sooner and we potentially lose him for nothing. And he has less value on the trade market because of his impending status. Gagner is still a valuable asset even if he isn't a long term fit in Edmonton. Getting him signed for a reasonable sum through what will likely be some of his most productive years seems like a smart plan.

If we need to trade him in a year or two, there will be teams that are interested in picking him up. Weren't the Ducks and Hawks inquiring about him recently? He's a great 2C for any team with a big 1C and still will be a few years into his next contract.

I think the Oilers should sign him for 4+ years and use him as a trade piece down the road, if required.

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06-03-2013, 07:57 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Not true. If he's not scoring, there are other things he'll do. Like get in a fight
And his play along the boards is improving, save for when an opponent or the boards get involved.

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06-03-2013, 08:01 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Not true. If he's not scoring, there are other things he'll do. Like get in a fight
Gagners a killer!! Gagners a mess!! haha.. couldn't resist but you have to give the guy credit for showing up. I didn't realize that he has actually been in five or six fights. I think he actually beat Conroy and Jokinen in a couple.

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06-03-2013, 08:20 PM
  #239
17Kurri
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Not true. If he's not scoring, there are other things he'll do. Like get in a fight
That's tied in with effort and caring, which I'm not disputing.

That said, when was last time a Gagner fight, for example, inspired the team to a win?

Besides, he's not here to fight. He's here for his offense. But his offense isn't enough for all the aspects of his game that he is lacking.

I like the guy because he was our fist real shining light after so many years, but his light is dimming with each year, imo.

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06-03-2013, 08:28 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by 17Kurri View Post
That's a reasonable point but, more specifically, his game to game consistency, production wise, has never stopped lacking.
Way too unfair. By that definition every player is inconsistent. You can't expect a player to be on all game every game it's just not realistic.

Gagner is one of the most hard-working players I've ever seen. He takes his career incredibly seriously and his compete level is right alongside Hall's. And it has paid off for him. If anyone deserves a pay raise it's that guy. Hell, we gave Hemsky a pay raise and he could care less on most days.

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06-03-2013, 08:32 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Blue And Orange View Post
I'd much rather buy out Belanger than Horcoff. As crappy as his cap hit is, Belanger cannot play hockey. He can win faceoffs and that's it.

If only Gagner had Belanger's faceoff ability, that would solve A LOT of problems.
I agree, that Belanger would be preferable. Money wise though....... It has to be Horcoff.

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06-03-2013, 09:13 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Way too unfair. By that definition every player is inconsistent. You can't expect a player to be on all game every game it's just not realistic.

Gagner is one of the most hard-working players I've ever seen. He takes his career incredibly seriously and his compete level is right alongside Hall's. And it has paid off for him. If anyone deserves a pay raise it's that guy. Hell, we gave Hemsky a pay raise and he could care less on most days.
But that's what makes a great top 6 player. Take Taylor Hall, for example. He creates or converts a scoring chance almost every single period, never mind every single game.

Gagner disappears for half a dozen games or more at a time, creating or converting nothing. If he can change that pattern, I'm all for keeping him long-term, despite the FO% problems. And moving him to the wing is a non starter. He's more effective in open ice.

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06-03-2013, 09:55 PM
  #243
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4 years @ 4 mil

I think you need to line up your players and pay them for what they are. A second line player should not make first line money.

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06-03-2013, 10:02 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Njoy Oilers View Post
I agree, that Belanger would be preferable. Money wise though....... It has to be Horcoff.
In a perfect world, we use the amnesty buy-out on Horcoff's current contract and re-sign him to a three year deal with a $2.5M cap hit.

I was just wondering, is it possible to do that?

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06-03-2013, 10:17 PM
  #245
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In a perfect world, we use the amnesty buy-out on Horcoff's current contract and re-sign him to a three year deal with a $2.5M cap hit.

I was just wondering, is it possible to do that?
No.
You buy him out, you can't re sign him.

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06-03-2013, 10:23 PM
  #246
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No.
You buy him out, you can't re sign him.
I'm ok with that!!

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06-03-2013, 10:44 PM
  #247
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I'm ok with that!!
yay, lets go into free agency with one more hole (to add to numerous others)

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06-03-2013, 10:46 PM
  #248
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Gagner is a tradeable asset, we need better asset management. Sign the man for 4+ years. If the Oilers get in cap trouble in 2 years, then simply trade him for other assets.

Losing him now to UFA would be unnessacary and dumb. We have both the cap space to handle him and the need for centers.

Thats why im also a fan of building a team through FA. The only thing you give up is cap space, and they can land you assets down the road

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06-03-2013, 10:50 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by 17Kurri View Post
That's a reasonable point but, more specifically, his game to game consistency, production wise, has never stopped lacking.
Show me any guy in the league outside of Stamkos who scores like a machine.
Game to game consistency isn't something that very many players bring to the table.
I guess by your standards 90% of the league is "lacking".

Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
I don't really understand why people want him signed short term. Then he is a UFA sooner and we potentially lose him for nothing. And he has less value on the trade market because of his impending status. Gagner is still a valuable asset even if he isn't a long term fit in Edmonton. Getting him signed for a reasonable sum through what will likely be some of his most productive years seems like a smart plan.
Exactly.

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06-03-2013, 10:59 PM
  #250
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I think 4.5/season for 5 years would be a fair contract and not cap crippling to the team. He's a legitimate 2nd line center and deserves to be paid like one. He might not be the ideal #2C for the Oilers but i'm sure he'd thrive on some other teams.

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