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Oilers and Gagner working on extension: [UPD: Elected Arbitration]

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06-25-2013, 05:02 PM
  #501
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I just have this feeling this contract is going to be so bad.

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06-25-2013, 05:12 PM
  #502
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5 million for a 40-50 point player is just insane
We will have to sign RNH, Schultz, and Yakupov in the future. Do we really have room to hand Gagner 5 million?

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06-25-2013, 05:27 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by Nugie Boy View Post
5 million for a 40-50 point player is just insane
We will have to sign RNH, Schultz, and Yakupov in the future. Do we really have room to hand Gagner 5 million?
Or.... MacT says he has done all he can to sign Gagner to a reasonable contract and boots him.

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06-25-2013, 05:33 PM
  #504
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Originally Posted by Nugie Boy View Post
5 million for a 40-50 point player is just insane
We will have to sign RNH, Schultz, and Yakupov in the future. Do we really have room to hand Gagner 5 million?
Nope, it's gonna hurt eventually over paying all these guys by 1m (Dubnyk, Gagner, Eberle etc)

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06-25-2013, 05:34 PM
  #505
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I'm sorry to all the Gagner fans here but what the hell has he done to earn a $5 mil long term contract? He has never broken 50 pts, is average defensively, below average on faceoffs and loses more puck battles than he wins. I understand that he plays with heart and there are no better options currently at center but i would rather search for a stopgap center and deal Gagner than pay him that much long term. That could be a real anchor of a contract if he doesn't improve his overall game.
I hope the Oilers aren't stupid enough to give him that much long term. I'm having a hard time justifying anything over $4 mil/yr to be honest.
Just for reference, Hall is making 6 mil/yr so in what world is Gagner worth anywhere near that?

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06-25-2013, 05:35 PM
  #506
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I really enjoy how so many people act like Gagner wasn't a beacon of hope through some very dark days for the Oilers. He been the definition of consistent since entering the league as an 18 year old. He's been a dutiful solder through it all. Even while his linemates were a revolving door containing too few good players and too many meh to terrible ones.

He's stuck up for his teammates (even getting his face busted open doing so) and has been a positive addition to the team every year he's been here. Hell, this team now looks to him as a veteran leader and he's 23 years old!

I hate that so many people want to ship him out of town because he's short or he's bad at faceoffs. I hate that so many people look at him and think "he's a 4 million dollar forward or he can go take a hike".

**** people, how many legit centers does this team have? We don't have anyone even close to his quality or skill to take his spot.

I'm going to lose it if he gets run out of town over so little money. How many former Oilers have we watched get shipped or walk out of town over a few dollars just to go on and have successful careers elsewhere? Too ****ing many in my mind.

I want him signed. I want him on this team next year. And for years after that too. Scoring centers are hard to find and we have one who actually wants to stay an Oiler. Let him continue to be a 40 point guy. Or maybe he'll be a 50 or even 60 point guy. That's certainly not an unrealistic possibility. So pay the man.

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06-25-2013, 05:39 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
I'm sorry to all the Gagner fans here but what the hell has he done to earn a $5 mil long term contract? He has never broken 50 pts, is average defensively, below average on faceoffs and loses more puck battles than he wins. I understand that he plays with heart and there are no better options currently at center but i would rather search for a stopgap center and deal Gagner than pay him that much long term. That could be a real anchor of a contract if he doesn't improve his overall game.
I hope the Oilers aren't stupid enough to give him that much long term. I'm having a hard time justifying anything over $4 mil/yr to be honest.
Just for reference, Hall is making 6 mil/yr so in what world is Gagner worth anywhere near that?
You need NHL players to win in the NHL. Gagner is a good 2nd line C in the NHL that can still improve. Trading every player away that asks for 500K more than you feel they should just leaves you with a bunch of prospect/picks and a bottom dwelling team. Obviously you can't give in for every player and it has to work with the cap/team vision. I just happen to think that the cap and team can handle Gagner @5M for at least a season or two.

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06-25-2013, 05:40 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
I really enjoy how so many people act like Gagner wasn't a beacon of hope through some very dark days for the Oilers. He been the definition of consistent since entering the league as an 18 year old. He's been a dutiful solder through it all. Even while his linemates were a revolving door containing too few good players and too many meh to terrible ones.

He's stuck up for his teammates (even getting his face busted open doing so) and has been a positive addition to the team every year he's been here. Hell, this team now looks to him as a veteran leader and he's 23 years old!

I hate that so many people want to ship him out of town because he's short or he's bad at faceoffs. I hate that so many people look at him and think "he's a 4 million dollar forward or he can go take a hike".

**** people, how many legit centers does this team have? We don't have anyone even close to his quality or skill to take his spot.

I'm going to lose it if he gets run out of town over so little money. How many former Oilers have we watched get shipped or walk out of town over a few dollars just to go on and have successful careers elsewhere? Too ****ing many in my mind.

I want him signed. I want him on this team next year. And for years after that too. Scoring centers are hard to find and we have one who actually wants to stay an Oiler. Let him continue to be a 40 point guy. Or maybe he'll be a 50 or even 60 point guy. That's certainly not an unrealistic possibility. So pay the man.
In the modern cap-era, there's no way we can be paying our top 6 forwards 30 million dollars. That literally leaves half the cap for everyone else.

Trust me, I love Gagner a lot more than most posters here. If we ship this guy out and we don't get a centre, I'll be madder than a hippo with a hernia, but there is no way I can personally justify handing out 5 million dollars to Gagner. Hemsky got 5 million dollars, and didn't live up to it...

Very conflicted. Want Gagner. Not his price tag.

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06-25-2013, 05:45 PM
  #509
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Originally Posted by nofool6110 View Post
In the modern cap-era, there's no way we can be paying our top 6 forwards 30 million dollars. That literally leaves half the cap for everyone else.

Trust me, I love Gagner a lot more than most posters here. If we ship this guy out and we don't get a centre, I'll be madder than a hippo with a hernia, but there is no way I can personally justify handing out 5 million dollars to Gagner. Hemsky got 5 million dollars, and didn't live up to it...

Very conflicted. Want Gagner. Not his price tag.
The cap will only be this low for a year or two. Expect it back above 70 within 3 years and probably approaching 80 with 5-6. So long as we can build a competitive team for the next 2 seasons with Gagner @5M, I don't see that contract as being that big an issue.

Seriously, people seem really hung up over 500K. If Gagner signed for 4.5 would all these concerns about building a team around the core disappear? If Gagner wasn't our number 2C, how much do you expect his replacement to make?

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06-25-2013, 05:46 PM
  #510
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The thought that Sam Gagner could be making as much money as Tavares next year is disgusting.

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06-25-2013, 05:48 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
You need NHL players to win in the NHL. Gagner is a good 2nd line C in the NHL that can still improve. Trading every player away that asks for 500K more than you feel they should just leaves you with a bunch of prospect/picks and a bottom dwelling team. Obviously you can't give in for every player and it has to work with the cap/team vision. I just happen to think that the cap and team can handle Gagner @5M for at least a season or two.
It's about identifying the needs of a club and fitting them all in a budget.
The Oilers are already paying top dollar to Hall and Eberle and will likely commit big money to RNH and Yakupov soon enough. Gagner doesn't have the proven track record or the potential (IMO) to warrant a $5 mil contract plus the fact that he's basically a lesser version of the guys we already have in the top 6. You can't simply overpay a player because he's a decent 2nd line center and the team is lacking in center depth.
If they can sign him to a short term $5 mil deal like 2 yrs $10 mil then i would be fine with that but long term, it could create big problems.

The smart play would be to sign him at a reasonable rate so the contract could be tradeable in the next few seasons or if he his demands are too rich, trade him now and search like hell for a replacement, a stopgap especially if they draft a center. There are options out there. Peverley, B. Richards post buyout, Cullen or trade for Schenn or Couturier.
Signing a guy like Gagner who lets be honest, is very one dimensional at this point in his career (and hasn't even excelled at that one dimension, hasn't broken 50 pts) for $5 mil/yr long term could come back to bite the Oilers in the rear big time when they are looking to not only lock up better players but are also looking to balance out the roster with stronger, 2 way players.
It also sets a bad market value for RNH (especially if he breaks out which i think he will) who will look towards the Gagner contract as a benchmark in negotiations.

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06-25-2013, 05:53 PM
  #512
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Give him the world. 5.5 mil or whatever ******** he is asking for.
We need a new Horcoff on this team.

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06-25-2013, 05:54 PM
  #513
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Imo, Gagner shouldn't be at center anyways

I really am not comfortable signing him at anything above 4mil per season but of course that's not going to happen

Big fan of his attitude and effort tho so hopefully he proves me wrong

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06-25-2013, 05:57 PM
  #514
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6 years at $4.75 Million. Is this possible? I can live with this but anything $5 Million or above is just getting too high and becomes a bigger risk.

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06-25-2013, 05:58 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
It's about identifying the needs of a club and fitting them all in a budget.
The Oilers are already paying top dollar to Hall and Eberle and will likely commit big money to RNH and Yakupov soon enough. Gagner doesn't have the proven track record or the potential (IMO) to warrant a $5 mil contract plus the fact that he's basically a lesser version of the guys we already have in the top 6. You can't simply overpay a player because he's a decent 2nd line center and the team is lacking in center depth.
If they can sign him to a short term $5 mil deal like 2 yrs $10 mil then i would be fine with that but long term, it could create big problems.

The smart play would be to sign him at a reasonable rate so the contract could be tradeable in the next few seasons or if he his demands are too rich, trade him now and search like hell for a replacement, a stopgap especially if they draft a center. There are options out there. Peverley, B. Richards post buyout, Cullen or trade for Schenn or Couturier.
Signing a guy like Gagner who lets be honest, is very one dimensional at this point in his career (and hasn't even excelled at that one dimension, hasn't broken 50 pts) for $5 mil/yr long term could come back to bite the Oilers in the rear big time when they are looking to not only lock up better players but are also looking to balance out the roster with stronger, 2 way players.
It also sets a bad market value for RNH (especially if he breaks out which i think he will) who will look towards the Gagner contract as a benchmark in negotiations.
Yeah lets be honest. A number 2 Center who took a huge amount of pk minutes and excelled there. Some one dimensional. I see that myth needs to be pumped up here in every other post. Guess what happens when Gagner plays with other players with some modicum of all zone play? GA isn't a problem. Even on PK. Who knew? I guess its an inconvenient truth.

The 50 pts thing? Still trotting out that dead horse? Gagner has exceeded 50pt prorated production the last 2 seasons. He exceeded 60s prorated this season. Dammit that Gagner, its his fault its a lockout year and season was only 48GP. What a suckhole only getting 38pts..

Really and I have to say this using the 50pt thing still deflates any other point you might have made. Just ridiculous comment. Its as if people are mocking the anti-gagner faction with these talking points.

Yeah I think its possible it jumped the shark.

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06-25-2013, 06:00 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
It's about identifying the needs of a club and fitting them all in a budget.
The Oilers are already paying top dollar to Hall and Eberle and will likely commit big money to RNH and Yakupov soon enough. Gagner doesn't have the proven track record or the potential (IMO) to warrant a $5 mil contract plus the fact that he's basically a lesser version of the guys we already have in the top 6. You can't simply overpay a player because he's a decent 2nd line center and the team is lacking in center depth.
If they can sign him to a short term $5 mil deal like 2 yrs $10 mil then i would be fine with that but long term, it could create big problems.


The smart play would be to sign him at a reasonable rate so the contract could be tradeable in the next few seasons or if he his demands are too rich, trade him now and search like hell for a replacement, a stopgap especially if they draft a center. There are options out there. Peverley, B. Richards post buyout, Cullen or trade for Schenn or Couturier.
Signing a guy like Gagner who lets be honest, is very one dimensional at this point in his career (and hasn't even excelled at that one dimension, hasn't broken 50 pts) for $5 mil/yr long term could come back to bite the Oilers in the rear big time when they are looking to not only lock up better players but are also looking to balance out the roster with stronger, 2 way players.
It also sets a bad market value for RNH (especially if he breaks out which i think he will) who will look towards the Gagner contract as a benchmark in negotiations.
I am not a fan of the 5M number either. I think it's a bit too much. But given our C situation and the fact that he's still so young, I don't see term as being that big of an issue. If Gagner forces the Oilers to overpay to keep him and he doesn't live up to the contract, then he'll be dealt.

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06-25-2013, 06:00 PM
  #517
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He's the fifth best forward on the team. How any one one justify paying your fifth best player 5 million dollars?? Keep in mind that this is the same top 6 that need to add size (which won't come cheap).

It's not a matter of what Gagner is worth on the open market. I'm sure a team like Calgary would offer him that kind of money. It's the fact that we can't afford to pay market value for a guy who is 5th on the depth chart. If he wants to be part of our future he should have to take a discount.

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06-25-2013, 06:04 PM
  #518
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
I am not a fan of the 5M number either. I think it's a bit too much. But given our C situation and the fact that he's still so young, I don't see term as being that big of an issue. If Gagner forces the Oilers to overpay to keep him and he doesn't live up to the contract, then he'll be dealt.
That's a part of the problem right there. If he doesn't live up to the contract then it will be even harder to deal him so it's not so easy to just deal him if he doesn't improve. I honestly think that anything over $4 mil is too much for him.
Don't get me wrong, i admire his fighting spirit and he's a good team guy but this is just not the right situation for he and the Oilers long term, a team in which the core is made up of smallish, skilled players.
He's a good fit for teams like Phoenix, Anaheim or Dallas.

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06-25-2013, 06:05 PM
  #519
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Give him the world. 5.5 mil or whatever ******** he is asking for.
We need a new Horcoff on this team.
you mad bro?

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06-25-2013, 06:06 PM
  #520
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
He's the fifth best forward on the team. How any one one justify paying your fifth best player 5 million dollars?? Keep in mind that this is the same top 6 that need to add size (which won't come cheap).

It's not a matter of what Gagner is worth on the open market. I'm sure a team like Calgary would offer him that kind of money. It's the fact that we can't afford to pay market value for a guy who is 5th on the depth chart. If he wants to be part of our future he should have to take a discount.
Not to make too much of a point of this but how many seasons has Gagner bettered 5th best production while seldom playing with optimal linemates?

As recently as last season he seemed like the second best forward for much of the year. Not saying this is necessarily the case longterm but suggesting he's miles apart in value from the top 4 may be stretching things as well.

The problem for the Oilers is they did this to themselves. They twice contractually tempted fate and twice were shown up for it. So at this stage Gagners agent has hands out for money they know they can get anywhere.

The Oilers org did this, to themselves.

That said if you start making decisions on the basis of what you suggest you end up dealing off very good depth offense which will not be replaced. The good clubs have this many talented topsix offensive forwards. One line clubs go nowhere.

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06-25-2013, 06:07 PM
  #521
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
It's about identifying the needs of a club and fitting them all in a budget.
The Oilers are already paying top dollar to Hall and Eberle and will likely commit big money to RNH and Yakupov soon enough. Gagner doesn't have the proven track record or the potential (IMO) to warrant a $5 mil contract plus the fact that he's basically a lesser version of the guys we already have in the top 6. You can't simply overpay a player because he's a decent 2nd line center and the team is lacking in center depth.
If they can sign him to a short term $5 mil deal like 2 yrs $10 mil then i would be fine with that but long term, it could create big problems.

The smart play would be to sign him at a reasonable rate so the contract could be tradeable in the next few seasons or if he his demands are too rich, trade him now and search like hell for a replacement, a stopgap especially if they draft a center. There are options out there. Peverley, B. Richards post buyout, Cullen or trade for Schenn or Couturier.
Signing a guy like Gagner who lets be honest, is very one dimensional at this point in his career (and hasn't even excelled at that one dimension, hasn't broken 50 pts) for $5 mil/yr long term could come back to bite the Oilers in the rear big time when they are looking to not only lock up better players but are also looking to balance out the roster with stronger, 2 way players.
It also sets a bad market value for RNH (especially if he breaks out which i think he will) who will look towards the Gagner contract as a benchmark in negotiations.
The smart play would be to sign the center who is already an Oiler and wants to continue to be an Oiler instead of chancing it that the can Oilers sign a big name on the UFA market (without drastically overpaying for said UFA) or trading a kings ransom to Philly for one of their young centers (who probably aren't available anyways).

The contract Hall signed will act as a benchmark in negotiations for both RNH and Yakupov when they require their next contracts. If either player wants to use Gagner as a comparable, I'm sure management would kindly remind the players that Gagner signed a cheap bridge contract before signing away any UFA years and I doubt that's what either RNH or Yakupov are looking for. But if they are, more power to them. That just pushes their big pay days further down the road.

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06-25-2013, 06:07 PM
  #522
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If he gets $4.5M+, it's because he's purely a stopgap. A desperate move to not let a player walk a la Hemsky.

His future on the Oilers isn't at center and they can't be paying a small winger that much.


Good teams don't have centers like Gagner. Plain and simple.

Try to find a comparable center on Chicago, Boston, Detroit, Los Angeles, Pittsburgh or San Jose.

Won't happen.

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06-25-2013, 06:11 PM
  #523
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
He's the fifth best forward on the team. How any one one justify paying your fifth best player 5 million dollars?? Keep in mind that this is the same top 6 that need to add size (which won't come cheap).

It's not a matter of what Gagner is worth on the open market. I'm sure a team like Calgary would offer him that kind of money. It's the fact that we can't afford to pay market value for a guy who is 5th on the depth chart. If he wants to be part of our future he should have to take a discount.
And if he won't bend knowing someone will likely offersheet him at 5M? Do we lose him for a 1st + 2nd + 3rd? Do we trade him before that happens for picks/prospects?

Vancouver - 5 players above 5M
Chicago - 6 players above 5M
Boston - 5 players above 5M
LA - 5 players above 5M
Pittsburgh - 5 players above 5M
Carolina - 5 players above 5M
SJ - 5 players above 5M

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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
That's a part of the problem right there. If he doesn't live up to the contract then it will be even harder to deal him so it's not so easy to just deal him if he doesn't improve. I honestly think that anything over $4 mil is too much for him.
Don't get me wrong, i admire his fighting spirit and he's a good team guy but this is just not the right situation for he and the Oilers long term, a team in which the core is made up of smallish, skilled players.
He's a good fit for teams like Phoenix, Anaheim or Dallas.
He's a 23 year old top 6 C that had top teams calling about his availability this season. At worst we'd have to retain 1M on the contract, but he'd still have trade value.

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06-25-2013, 06:15 PM
  #524
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
If he gets $4.5M+, it's because he's purely a stopgap. A desperate move to not let a player walk a la Hemsky.

His future on the Oilers isn't at center and they can't be paying a small winger that much.


Good teams don't have centers like Gagner. Plain and simple.

Try to find a comparable center on Chicago, Boston, Detroit, Los Angeles, Pittsburgh or San Jose.

Won't happen.
So random association induces causality now?

What a specious point.

Frankly if thats your starting point mechanism of logic you should give up now.

Of course you're not stating that it would be impossible to build a contender with a Center like Gagner in the mix.

Can we also get over this mythical fixation that theres one formula to build a contending team now? This hasn't been the case ever.

Good clubs assemble good talent and good depth talent and find players to supplement that talent. Which is certainly possible with a good GM.

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06-25-2013, 06:17 PM
  #525
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Not sure if it's been posted, but here is a quote:

"It's an unanswered question right now. We want to build through the draft and development. We drafted Sam at #6 and we were prepared to put a smaller C there. He's a couple hundred pounds and he's only 23. The Conn Smythe winner was a little under his height. We need to surround Sam that's more of a fit for him but I know for sure he's a really good player, he would have had 63 points in an 82 game schedule. He's durable, he's gritty, and I do have confidence that Sam will be or could be part of the solution"

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