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Oilers and Gagner working on extension: [UPD: Elected Arbitration]

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Old
06-27-2013, 07:22 AM
  #676
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Originally Posted by AlbertaHockey20 View Post
How many centres have a well developed defensive game at age 23? Not very many. We can afford to wait, it won't get worse. I especially think Eakins could help in this regard.
Guy has six full seasons in the league. When do you think he gets it? After ten seasons? This he's still young nonsense doesnt really play for a guy who is already a six year vet.

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06-27-2013, 08:16 AM
  #677
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Two things working in Gagner's mind:

Horcoff's 6 year deal for 5.5M - signed after two good years.

Eberle's 6 year deal for 6M, signed after one great season - followed-up by a season when Gagner outscored Eberle by 1 point.

So, if you are Gagner, don't you think you are worth the same 5.5M Horcoff got?

This is a problem. The Horcoff error and maybe the Eberle error, he probably should be making 5-5.5 and not 6M, are possibly coming back to haunt the Oilers.

If they can make some deals to flip Gagner for a good player back, and then sign someone like Ribeiro, Weiss or Bozak for around 4M per season, then Gagner will be gone. I don't think it will happen until after the draft though.

Gagner could always go to arbitration and find himself with either a one year 3.75M deal or 5M deal. We'll see.

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06-27-2013, 08:25 AM
  #678
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Trade him.

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06-27-2013, 08:44 AM
  #679
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So in the dollar range the reports have him, the RFA compensation would be a 1st and a 3rd. If we traded his rights, Oilers would maybe get the 3rd. If they allow him to work out a contract with someone else, would the Oil get anything better than a 1st and a 3rd? Is any team that wants him, smarter to just offer sheet him?

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06-27-2013, 08:55 AM
  #680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worraps View Post
Shattenkirk signs 4 years for $4.25M a year and, allegedly, Gagner won't take $4.5M for the same term ... amazing.
bold the word Allegedly.
I can't get upset with the guy. I still haven't seen any basis in fact that he did indeed reject 4.5M a year.
So far I think it's just coming from people who want a chance to hate on Gagner some more.

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06-27-2013, 09:02 AM
  #681
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There's a difference between asking a center to be defensively responsible and expecting them to shut down the other teams' forwards, which is what many posters here complain about Gagner not doing. Gagner backchecks hard and he does all those things that a good center is asked of him. He is responsible in both ends of the ice, and where that responsibility ends is not giving the opposing team odd man rushes and keeping those neutral zone passes to a minimum. Don't get me wrong, he's not the best at this by any means.

Did you see how badly Krueger handled our centers this year? It was a disaster and every single one of our centers suffered. It's unfair to call out Gagner on his defensive zone coverage when Krueger had him sitting at the freakin' blueline with the slot wide open.

His offensive stats are what's going to keep him alive in this league. They are not overrated by any stretch of the imagination when it comes to Gagner. Remove his production and yes, then he becomes Horcoff V2.0. But that's highly unlikely considering his career so far.
I disagree with the bolded above.

I can instantaneously think of an instance off the top of my head where he gave the puck away at the opposition's blue-line and the camera showed him still standing there as their team was skating into our zone and scoring on us.

Not to mention his standing still spin-o-rama in OUR zone with the puck while the opposition stripped the puck off him.

Defensively responsible and smart decision making are not two things I associate with Gagner.

He does have decent offensive instincts and some nice stickhandling but that's about it.

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06-27-2013, 09:04 AM
  #682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
Two things working in Gagner's mind:

Horcoff's 6 year deal for 5.5M - signed after two good years.

Eberle's 6 year deal for 6M, signed after one great season - followed-up by a season when Gagner outscored Eberle by 1 point.

So, if you are Gagner, don't you think you are worth the same 5.5M Horcoff got?

This is a problem. The Horcoff error and maybe the Eberle error, he probably should be making 5-5.5 and not 6M, are possibly coming back to haunt the Oilers.

If they can make some deals to flip Gagner for a good player back, and then sign someone like Ribeiro, Weiss or Bozak for around 4M per season, then Gagner will be gone. I don't think it will happen until after the draft though.

Gagner could always go to arbitration and find himself with either a one year 3.75M deal or 5M deal. We'll see.
Horcoff's deal was under different management, a different CBA, and 4ish years ago.

If we want to talk about right now, Kunitz just signed for under 4 mil/year.

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06-27-2013, 09:10 AM
  #683
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Originally Posted by Mentallydull View Post
Horcoff's deal was under different management, a different CBA, and 4ish years ago.

If we want to talk about right now, Kunitz just signed for under 4 mil/year.
I am only raising the Horcoff contract from Gagner (and his agent's) perspective.

If you read closely, I am saying in an arbitration, a Gagner contract would come between 3.75M and 5M. Nothing within that range would shock me at all.

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06-27-2013, 09:17 AM
  #684
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Kunitz slated to take <4M hit on new contract. Shove that in Gags' face

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06-27-2013, 09:29 AM
  #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
I am only raising the Horcoff contract from Gagner (and his agent's) perspective.

If you read closely, I am saying in an arbitration, a Gagner contract would come between 3.75M and 5M. Nothing within that range would shock me at all.
Yeah, I'm just raising the opposition to that perspective

I'd agree with your assessment though in regards to the arbitration.

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06-27-2013, 10:13 AM
  #686
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I would take the 5M that we are planning on giving Gagner added to Lecavalier fund and offer the guy 6M x 4 yrs .
Lecavalier @ 6M > Gagner @ 5M

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06-27-2013, 10:20 AM
  #687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
I would take the 5M that we are planning on giving Gagner added to Lecavalier fund and offer the guy 6M x 4 yrs .
Lecavalier @ 6M > Gagner @ 5M
That's at least 1 mil overpayment for either of them =/

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06-27-2013, 11:30 AM
  #688
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
I would take the 5M that we are planning on giving Gagner added to Lecavalier fund and offer the guy 6M x 4 yrs .
Lecavalier @ 6M > Gagner @ 5M
I'm thinking Vinny only signs a one year deal. Unless someone offers him another stupid contract like his last one.

I can't see any negatives to trying to sign Vinny and move SS for a player to fill another hole on the roster. Vinny is superior to SS in every way and would be a good veteran compliment to RNH.

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06-27-2013, 11:44 AM
  #689
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I would be inclined to sign Lecavalier or Richards (if he is bought out) on a 1-2 year deal and move Gagner for some assets. They (Lecavalier/Richards) can fill the 2C gap until one of Monahan/Lindholm is ready to take their place

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06-27-2013, 11:46 AM
  #690
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Originally Posted by NewOilersDynasty2012 View Post
E3 Gagner sign and trade to Toronto for 3 7th round picks. Apparently that's what he's worth to Maple leaf fans.
lol, until he's in TO. Then value jumps up to at least a 1st and a 2nd.

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06-27-2013, 12:39 PM
  #691
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Originally Posted by The Perfect Human View Post
Kunitz slated to take <4M hit on new contract. Shove that in Gags' face
All signs point to an overpay if we don't move him. I don't consider him a core player and if I'm overpaying a secondary player he had damn well better bring an all around game and toughness to boot.

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06-27-2013, 12:42 PM
  #692
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IMO, why not trade Gags for another mid-1st round pick?

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06-27-2013, 12:43 PM
  #693
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IMO, why not trade Gags for another mid-1st round pick?
Dallas at 10 or Phoenix at 12 works for me.

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06-27-2013, 12:43 PM
  #694
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
All signs point to an overpay if we don't move him. I don't consider him a core player and if I'm overpaying a secondary player he had damn well better bring an all around game and toughness to boot.
The fact is, players will often take less money to play for a contender. The Oilers haven't been one of those in a long, long time.

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06-27-2013, 12:45 PM
  #695
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Dallas at 10 or Phoenix at 12 works for me.
Really Bryan? How does that help the team out at all? We need to make the playoffs next season.

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06-27-2013, 12:45 PM
  #696
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Originally Posted by The Great Ones View Post
IMO, why not trade Gags for another mid-1st round pick?
Maybe if he's worked out a deal with them before hand or are willing to take a chance on an arbitration, otherwise I don't see how his rights are worth that much.

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06-27-2013, 12:46 PM
  #697
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IMO, why not trade Gags for another mid-1st round pick?
Because we need players who can contribute right now?

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06-27-2013, 12:46 PM
  #698
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I would be inclined to sign Lecavalier or Richards (if he is bought out) on a 1-2 year deal and move Gagner for some assets. They (Lecavalier/Richards) can fill the 2C gap until one of Monahan/Lindholm is ready to take their place
Lecavalier would be a pretty good addition but something tells me he's not joining a Canadian team. He seems like one of those Canadian guys who want to play in America the rest of their careers.

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06-27-2013, 12:46 PM
  #699
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IMO, why not trade Gags for another mid-1st round pick?
I think trading Gagner for something of equivalent value to #7 would need thought let alone a mid round - Gagner is a good centermen for his age and by typical prime age he could be a very very high quality #2 C. He isn't too small contrary to popular belief, he is the same size as Doug Weight and he was fine. Doug Weight just played with more of an edge.

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06-27-2013, 12:46 PM
  #700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
Two things working in Gagner's mind:

Horcoff's 6 year deal for 5.5M - signed after two good years.

Eberle's 6 year deal for 6M, signed after one great season - followed-up by a season when Gagner outscored Eberle by 1 point.

So, if you are Gagner, don't you think you are worth the same 5.5M Horcoff got?

This is a problem. The Horcoff error and maybe the Eberle error, he probably should be making 5-5.5 and not 6M, are possibly coming back to haunt the Oilers.

If they can make some deals to flip Gagner for a good player back, and then sign someone like Ribeiro, Weiss or Bozak for around 4M per season, then Gagner will be gone. I don't think it will happen until after the draft though.

Gagner could always go to arbitration and find himself with either a one year 3.75M deal or 5M deal. We'll see.
Gagner and his representatives are morons if they are using those comparables as a benchmark for negotiations.
Horcoff was the #1 center on a Cup finalist and 2 years later an all star leading up to his contract.
Eberle had 34 goals and 76 points going into negotiations for an extension although Eberle's contract is eating up a bunch of RFA years so he and Gagner's situations are apples and oranges.
Gagner hasn't broken 50 pts once and had 38 pts in 48 games after 28 pts in his first 28 games so if he and his agent want to play that game, Sayonara Sammy.

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