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The Bergeron buzz

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Old
09-23-2003, 08:22 PM
  #1
gretzky2kurri
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The Bergeron buzz

Alot of people feel if Comrie is moved there might not be a need to get a D-man in return for him because Bergy might stick this year.

Many feel it's more important to replace Comries offence. I'm just thrilled that we may no longer have to worry about his defense and could care less about his offense right now. Comrie gone helps our defense.

BUT........

I would like to think that Bergy could be the PP/ puck moving saviour too. But Bergies NHL career so far consists of 1 game.

Don't get me wrong. I love what I've seen. But that's about as pre-mature and naive as Lowe thinking George Laraque could actually take over Mike Griers role on the team, thus making Grier expendable for picks before the start of last season.

How long did that last.......3.5 periods?

I like Bergy fiestiness and low center of gravity. He's a boulder. He seems to be able to move the puck. But there will be alot of mistakes and kinks to iron out too.

Then there's Semenov I guess. Who made Brewers learning curve look like a flatline last year.

I want another d-man. We might have a great centerman in Smyth....thus loosening the "winger glut" a bit in the process. Then again I guess you could call me a bit premature in my centerman hopes also.

Thoughts?

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09-23-2003, 08:27 PM
  #2
thome_26
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I think our team as as good depth as any other team. If there is a 2 for 1 deal that could be done out there the Oilers should jump at it. If the Oilers could land another top line forward or a top pairing Dman (unrealistic as the $ probably isn't there) then I think we'd be really set. IMO we have all kinds of second liners. We could use a first liner though. We have four top four Dmen, but really only one guy who could be arguably a top pairing guy (Brewer).

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09-23-2003, 08:32 PM
  #3
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We have hardly any top-six depth WITH Comrie here. If you deal him and get no offensive forward back, this team will trap, we'll play 2-goal-a-game hockey, and we'll LOSE, ALOT. Because we're not built for that kind of game at all IMO. People make it out like he does nothing to help the team, which is pretty sad. Players with that much skill always make a difference in the season positively, you can't just expect the Oilers to improve after losing one of their best and not replacing that.

But if everyone wants to finish 8th and lose in the first round again, if that's what you want, then trade Comrie for a d-man and a pick, maybe we'll even miss the playoffs and you can save money by not having to pay for tickets.

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09-23-2003, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
We have hardly any top-six depth WITH Comrie here. If you deal him and get no offensive forward back, this team will trap, we'll play 2-goal-a-game hockey, and we'll LOSE, ALOT. Because we're not built for that kind of game at all IMO. People make it out like he does nothing to help the team, which is pretty sad. Players with that much skill always make a difference in the season positively, you can't just expect the Oilers to improve after losing one of their best and not replacing that.

But if everyone wants to finish 8th and lose in the first round again, if that's what you want, then trade Comrie for a d-man and a pick, maybe we'll even miss the playoffs and you can save money by not having to pay for tickets.
I'm also pretty concerned about not getting some offence back in a Comrie deal. Too many unknowns. Isbister's never had a year to indicate he's a second-line winger, never mind the top line. I hope he's ready. Playing Smyth at centre should also be a last resort.

Just too many question marks right now...

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Old
09-23-2003, 08:40 PM
  #5
thome_26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
We have hardly any top-six depth WITH Comrie here. If you deal him and get no offensive forward back, this team will trap, we'll play 2-goal-a-game hockey, and we'll LOSE, ALOT. Because we're not built for that kind of game at all IMO. People make it out like he does nothing to help the team, which is pretty sad. Players with that much skill always make a difference in the season positively, you can't just expect the Oilers to improve after losing one of their best and not replacing that.

But if everyone wants to finish 8th and lose in the first round again, if that's what you want, then trade Comrie for a d-man and a pick, maybe we'll even miss the playoffs and you can save money by not having to pay for tickets.
You're a rather pesimistic person. Not at all enjoyable to read when you go on a rant like that...... We don't have top six depth? Dvo, Hemmer, Smyth, Izzy, York Those are five top six guys with a young guy like Horcoff, Rita, Chimera filling the lines out. All three have great top six potential.

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09-23-2003, 08:42 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam
I'm also pretty concerned about not getting some offence back in a Comrie deal. Too many unknowns. Isbister's never had a year to indicate he's a second-line winger, never mind the top line. I hope he's ready. Playing Smyth at centre should also be a last resort.

Just too many question marks right now...
Isbister has scored 20 goals in the past. The poor lad has never had any good linemates! In Long Island he never played with Yashin or Peca! Plus, how old was Bertuzzi when he was a .5 point/game player still? thats right, I know I'm right! :p

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09-23-2003, 08:45 PM
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The theme of this thread was people being pre-mature about Bergy having an impact.

Here's my pre-mature faults. Hemsky can replace alot of Comries offense. Smyth could be a great centerman loosening the glut on the wing in the process.

D-man please.

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09-23-2003, 08:52 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gretzky2kurri
I would like to think that Bergy could be the PP/ puck moving saviour too. But Bergies NHL career so far consists of 1 game.
It's not quite that bad - he played 5 in the regular season and 1 in the playoffs. Anyway, 5 more games doesn't make it much more certain. He has the potential to do it, and for once, with Luoma, they have some backup if he can't. When Laraque couldn't take over for Grier, they didn't have anyone else who could, but they do have a couple of defencemen who may work out. I think this is why Ferguson is still around. If Bergeron and Luoma sink instead of swimming, good old Fergie will be there to do what he has always done, and fill in until the next potential saviour comes along.

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09-23-2003, 09:02 PM
  #9
gretzky2kurri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan
It's not quite that bad - he played 5 in the regular season and 1 in the playoffs.
Damn! You are right.

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Old
09-23-2003, 09:09 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
You're a rather pesimistic person. Not at all enjoyable to read when you go on a rant like that...... We don't have top six depth? Dvo, Hemmer, Smyth, Izzy, York Those are five top six guys with a young guy like Horcoff, Rita, Chimera filling the lines out. All three have great top six potential.
I'm pessimistic because this team should be better than it is, and hate to see big-time talent possibly leaving the organization.

This year, there were going to quite possibly be 2 good scoring lines, a first in almost 10 years, and we're just gonna give that up now, and I'm not happy about it.

Seriously, I don't want to watch 2-1 hockey.

Isbister is a big question mark, Dvorak could be big or not, Horcoff has had one decent 1/4 season, Rita has been mostly projected as a 3rd liner for his career, and Chimera I could see being ready in 3 years, but not really now. And even then, you need 6-8 top six guys, not 4 hoping for 6.

It's all just way too up in the air for me, with Comrie at least, you've got some semblance of reliability. I'd just like to see some progress this year.

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Old
09-23-2003, 10:07 PM
  #11
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Well, bottom line. Bergy in and Comrie out helps both the PP and our defensive stance, HOWEVER if we lose comrie and the 30 goals he provides I think we'll probably drop in the standings. When Weight left
we were lucky enough to have Comrie come in and produce and because of that we didn't shift a lot in the standings.

I guess the biggest problem this upcomming season is what we can expect offensively. York, Smyth, Comrie we know what these guys can bring to the table traditionally from past edm seasons, but Dvorak, Isbister, Hemsky are questionable as to what we can expect. I do believe the other issue we are going to have is Vet Leadership, a guy who knows how to speak to the kids and get them back on track. Smith seems to be a great "leader by example" type. Smyth is a good go-to-guy but this is were a messier/Linden/Muller/Ronning etc kind of guy is great to have ... but I'm getting off-topic

To add we're replacing Carter, Marchant with Isbister, Dvorak this season which seems to me to be a latteral move at this time. Drop Comrie without replacing his kind of production and we're all of sudden counting on guys like Rita and Horcoff to pick up the slack in 20-30 goals that's tough to call.

Defensively I think we're ok at this time. Replacing Nim with Cross isn't ganna be a great thing but hopefully adding Cross and Berg can make up for that kind of production. The only problem I can see is if we run into 2 or 3 defensive injuries. Mind you I do feel comfortable with Luoma and Berg filling a 5th and 6th spot for a short while .... although I'm not sure what we should do with Ferguson these days 8)

PT

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Old
09-24-2003, 03:11 AM
  #12
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there is a good read on the main board about what makes a top 6 forward. Basically, if you can score 30 points, you will be in the top 180 forwards ( 30 teams x 6 players). Last year, the oilers were third in the nhl with 8 >30 point scorers. We have enough depth at forward to not be hopeless without comrie.

Our top 5 defense is pretty good as well. Some may not like cross but he is steady as heck and every team is looking for guys like him. We will be ok on defense as well.

So what does that leave our organization wanting? IMO, a trade for comrie should be for the best prospect available. If that prospect is a forward, defense, or goalie, it should not matter. It would be nice if it was a stud dman prospect like komaresik or pitkanen because that is one area where the oilers are not overloaded. I would rather have a grade A forward prospect than a grade B defense prospect.

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Old
09-24-2003, 06:10 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gretzky2kurri

Don't get me wrong. I love what I've seen. But that's about as pre-mature and naive as Lowe thinking George Laraque could actually take over Mike Griers role on the team, thus making Grier expendable for picks before the start of last season.

How long did that last.......3.5 periods?

SNIP

Thoughts?
Laraque couldn't fill Grier's role but pisani certainly filled in just fine, thank you. Plus Fernando has hands!!

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Old
09-25-2003, 05:20 AM
  #14
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Gotta run, but this article appears to fit nicely here.

http://www.canoe.ca/Slam030925/nhl_edm1-sun.html

L8R

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09-25-2003, 05:50 AM
  #15
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Personally, I am rooting for Bergie. What can I say? I always have liked the short guys for their heart. This guy can back that heart up with some muscle. As for Luoma, I haven't seen him play. So its not a fair bias on my part. BUT... if both are doing so well..... why not send someone else down at the start of the season?

 
Old
09-25-2003, 06:25 AM
  #16
Mr Sakich
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I think that we all miss one very important point when it comes to dmen. The object is to outscore the other team, not to win 1-0 every game. He may cost us 10 goals during the year because he makes a bonehead play or is too small to move a man in the crease, but he may add 20 goals because of his skills. Fergie and luoma won't make that big of a difference.

This situation reminds me a lot of when theo fluery first got into the nhl. He got his chance because of injuries to the flames and he never let the flames org cut him. IMO, bergie is doing the same thing. He has an opportunity because of the janne trade and will never be able to say he didn't get his shot.

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09-25-2003, 06:27 AM
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i honestly think that bergy could, if given the chance, develop into rafalski with a mean streak. He has the gift of good vision and the smarts to be very effective quarterbacking the powerplay. So he’s small. Who cares. Rafalski is also small and he’d be guaranteed a spot on our blueline.

so lets hope that he is given the chance. macT is not notorious for patience with young players. for some unknown reason he prefers old pylons (cross, fergy). Admittedly, brewer has always gotten a regular shift but I wonder if that would have been true had brewer been 5 inches shorter and 30 pounds lighter?



and hemskyfan... ranting and whining IN EVERY THREAD about how “the oilers will suck without comrie" or "comrie is the greatest - everyone who suggests trading him is stupid" is really starting to get irritating. Everyone who posts at hfboards is now aware that you like comrie and don’t want to see him traded. You can stop now….

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09-25-2003, 06:35 AM
  #18
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I can honestly see Fergy on the outside looking in, which Luoma and Bergeron splitting time........ Luoma when the team is scoring lots, Bergeron when they aren't........ Bergeron can assure himself 82 games if he makes it happen on the PP though. Thats the biggest thing he's got going for him. THe Oiler have delt two of the better puck moving Dmen in the last two years (Poti, Niinimaa) and now they need a replacement........ Bergeron will never get a better shot any where...... well there is still the Pens :p

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09-25-2003, 09:49 AM
  #19
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There's just about no way that Ferguson is not on the opening-night roster in favor of both Luoma and Bergeron, though. Both of the latter guys have two-way contracts (and don't have to clear waivers? anyone?) while Ferguson has a one-way deal (and DOES have to clear waivers?). They know exactly what Fergie does, and he becomes a perfect press-box guy when they want Bergie OR Luoma in the lineup.

I'd say at this point to keep Bergeron, send Luoma down to get some more NA hockey experience, Fergie & Bergeron platoon depending on the team (and depending on how well Bergeron handles the NHL games) and Luoma becomes our 'insurance' if we get an injury or two on defence.

I think Luoma has to far out-play Bergeron to stick, as Bergeron already showed some good stuff in the NHL late last year.

I like what I hear about Luoma, but I think he gets caught in the numbers game for this season.

If we DEAL Fergie to let Luoma play, then our depth for injury call-ups is much less. Who's the first call-up from Toronto then? Lynch? He needs more AHL time...

But if Comrie gets dealt for a young d-man, then that changes things substantially. Lowe could maybe afford to give up Ferguson & keep Luoma (more flexible with two-way contract).

Bart

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09-25-2003, 11:21 AM
  #20
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Question: would anyteam pickup Ferguson on waivers? Last year, both Reasoner cleared waivers... (did Cleary as well?)

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09-25-2003, 12:12 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogeo69
Question: would anyteam pickup Ferguson on waivers? Last year, both Reasoner cleared waivers... (did Cleary as well?)
Ferguson is an ideal 6/7 defenseman. Besides, the organization likes his attitude and effort too much to leave him unprotected.

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09-25-2003, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barto
There's just about no way that Ferguson is not on the opening-night roster in favor of both Luoma and Bergeron, though. Both of the latter guys have two-way contracts (and don't have to clear waivers? anyone?) while Ferguson has a one-way deal (and DOES have to clear waivers?). They know exactly what Fergie does, and he becomes a perfect press-box guy when they want Bergie OR Luoma in the lineup.
Bart
I also think that Ferguson is too valuable a #7 to not protect. I posted this on another thread but I'm going to do it again. If Cross is as bad in training camp as everybody says and sees what do you think if Lowe tries to trade him back to NYR (Pisa went back to Europe) for picks. I guess what I am saying (God forgive me) is would you rather have Cross for three years at over a mil or Ferguson as your number 7 at less than half that? Just a thought.

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09-25-2003, 01:53 PM
  #23
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In terms of trade value I think that center>defense>winger>goalie in most cases.

If we trade away a proven young center we pretty much have to get one in return because we don't have another bargaining chip that will get us that much.

Smith wouldn't, only Hemsky is really up there at this point in terms of trade value (and b4 you all threaten me with death, no I'm not recommending it).

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09-25-2003, 04:08 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
and hemskyfan... ranting and whining IN EVERY THREAD about how “the oilers will suck without comrie" or "comrie is the greatest - everyone who suggests trading him is stupid" is really starting to get irritating. Everyone who posts at hfboards is now aware that you like comrie and don’t want to see him traded. You can stop now….

So stop reading them if you're so irritated. And I've never said anything indicating we will "suck" or that he's the "greatest". Just because you disagree with me doesn't give you the right to put words in my mouth. I'd expect better from you. You're supposed to, and used to, be one of the intelligent and decent posters.

I could have said "the people who say that Comrie sucks and is a whiny brat in EVERY THREAD should shut up because I don't like reading it all the time and everyone knows you think it", but I wouldn't say somethin like that. That's not the way things should be done.

And if people are gonna keep posting things that I consider to be requiring a response, I'm gonna respond, simple as that. There are certain things that get said that I'm just not gonna ignore.

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Old
09-25-2003, 04:14 PM
  #25
Guy Flaming
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belcriss
if both are doing so well..... why not send someone else down at the start of the season?
Cause you can't. Anyone on the currrent roster (Defence) would have to clear waivers first and I don't think Ferguson would. and I think he'd be the only one even in consideration for the AHL at this point.

You would have to trade someone away and if you do that and then Bergy/Luoma don't pan out... no depth = screwed.

One will make the team, the other will play in AHL and be ready to replace the other should he not be NHL ready. My guess... Bergy makes it to start the year... and if he and Luoma both play well enough, then maybe you make a trade.

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