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Does Chicago have the best core?

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Old
06-25-2013, 01:35 AM
  #51
Godlike13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
- Toews is not really clutch
Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post
Doughty>Keith and Carter>Sharp but the main difference is Quick he's the best player on either team
Carter > Sharp maybe, i'd say =, but Keith > Doughty. Though Doughty is still pretty young, so that could change.

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06-25-2013, 01:40 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
Really?
Yes.

Everything about my post I still agree with. I never said Toews is a poor player. I just said he wasn't clutch. Patrick Kane is clutch. Toews' goal production drops big time come playoff time.

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06-25-2013, 01:41 AM
  #53
Intense Rage
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Yeah no idea if we have the best core but we have 2 Conn Smythe winning forwards who are still in their mid 20s. That just makes me so damn happy.

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06-25-2013, 01:42 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
Yes.

Everything about my post I still agree with. I never said Toews is a poor player. I just said he wasn't clutch. Patrick Kane is clutch. Toews' goal production drops big time come playoff time.
Because he's taking care of all the defensive and physical things that allow Kane to dance around and score clutch goals.

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06-25-2013, 01:46 AM
  #55
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They are obviously the best.

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06-25-2013, 01:47 AM
  #56
Godlike13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
Yes.

Everything about my post I still agree with. I never said Toews is a poor player. I just said he wasn't clutch. Patrick Kane is clutch. Toews' goal production drops big time come playoff time.
Patrick Kane is clutch when he has Toews as his center, and u don't get more clutch then the game Toews had tonight. And let not forget Toews did win a Conn Smythe. So while he might not have had big offensive playoff numbers this time around, he has in the past.

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06-25-2013, 01:53 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Because he's taking care of all the defensive and physical things that allow Kane to dance around and score clutch goals.
Ah, ok. Intangibles.

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Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
Patrick Kane is clutch when he has Toews as his center, and u don't get more clutch then the game he had tonight. And let not forget Toews did win a Conn Smythe. So while he might not have had big offensive playoff numbers this time around, he has in the past.
I already put my opinion out on this matter in the last page. He had a disappointing Finals that year. Personally, I wouldn't have given him the Conn Smythe, but it was close. He did have a crazy point streak run.

But if every single Blackhawk is clutch like the OP pretty much said, wouldn't the Blackhawks have made it past the first round in 2011 and 2012?

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06-25-2013, 01:53 AM
  #58
Intense Rage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
Yes.

Everything about my post I still agree with. I never said Toews is a poor player. I just said he wasn't clutch. Patrick Kane is clutch. Toews' goal production drops big time come playoff time.
So providing two crucial assists in Game 5 isn't being clutch. Playing tonight after the Boychuk hit and scoring the Hawks first goal isnt being clutch either.

Toews has delivered offense for us when we needed him to. Sure his performance was not Conn Smythe worthy but he did his part.

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06-25-2013, 01:58 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Kingjordan View Post
Your joking right sharp better than carter?

Craw < Quick
Kane > Richards
Sharp < Carter
Toews > Kopitar
Hossa > brown
Keith < Doughty

No Voynov in that list? He's definitely a huge piece to the Kings core.

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06-25-2013, 01:59 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
Ah, ok. Intangibles.



I already put my opinion out on this matter in the last page. He had a disappointing Finals that year. Personally, I wouldn't have given him the Conn Smythe, but it was close. He did have a crazy point streak run.

But if every single Blackhawk is clutch like the OP pretty much said, wouldn't the Blackhawks have made it past the first round in 2011 and 2012?
Well he had a big finals this year, and was clutch in this Stanley cup winning game. And clutch doesn't mean undefeatable. Though he pretty much willed that game 7 in 2011 to OT. It means he's known to come up big at big times, like he did tonight.

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06-25-2013, 02:01 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
So providing two crucial assists in Game 5 isn't being clutch. Playing tonight after the Boychuk hit and scoring the Hawks first goal isnt being clutch either.

Toews has delivered offense for us when we needed him to. Sure his performance was not Conn Smythe worthy but he did his part.
Toews has been able to score at a 40+ goal pace in the regular season for the past couple years. Come playoff time, that dips way down. Not clutch in my eyes.

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06-25-2013, 02:04 AM
  #62
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Chicago definitely have the best "team" in the NHL but I'm not sure about core. Without Bickell, Handzus, Shaw etc, Chicago wouldn't be celebrating their cup. I think Pitt, Boston, LA, St. Louis have cores just as good but it's the supporting cast that ultimately make or break a team's run.

Just my two cents.

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06-25-2013, 02:10 AM
  #63
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Hawks may have to buyout Hossa. If he retires 1 year before his contract ends they take some ridiculous penalty, like $27M for 1 season.


Anyways, not trying to hate. Big congrats to Hawks fans!

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06-25-2013, 02:13 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Doubleheader View Post
toews = top 8 (maybe even top 5) centre in the NHL, clutch, Olmypic gold, Selke, cup, intangiables,
kane = the new face of USA hockey, clutch, cup, top 5 best hands in the NHL.
Hossa = arguably the best 2 way winger of this generation, cup, 3 SCF appearances, selke.
Huh?

Quote:
Sharp = clutch, underrated 2 way game, underrated leader, one of the best snipers in the NHL, cup.
Saad = up and coming power forward, big, strong, good for 30+ goals every year.
Huh??

Quote:
keith = top 5 dman in the NHL, cup, Norris, Olympic gold.
Seabrook = top 10 dman in the NHL, cup, Olympic gold, clutch.
Uh...

Quote:
Leddy = up and coming top 4 PMD with lots of promise
Crawford = top 15 goalie, will most likely be on Team Canada.
He hasa good chance, but I'd say he's behind Brodeur, Luongo, Ward, and posibly Price right now (and has half a season to make that gap up).

Quote:
I dont think any team can match this core.
Hmm.

Detroit
Henrik Zetterberg - Top 5 center (maybe higher) in the NHL. Selke caliber. Clutch. Conn Smythe winner.
Pavel Datsyuk - Top 5 center (maybe higher) in the NHL. Three-time Selke winner, six-time consecutive nominee. Excellent playoff history.
Johan Franzen - Big, strong scoring winger who can consistently pot ~30 goals and ~55 points. Can play all forward positions. Good on faceoffs, and on the PK.
Gustav Nyquist - Highly skilled two way forward with excellent skating ability. Solid defensively. A good bet for 90 points every season.
Niklas Kronwall - top 10-15 defenseman, excellent offense, solid defense, one of the best hitters in the league.
Jonathan Ericsson - High end shut-down defenseman; not significantly worse than Seabrook if at all.
Brendan Smith - Young top 4 PMD with solid physical game and rapidly developing defensive game.
Jakub Kindl - Top 4 PMD with solid two-way game and good physical game
Jimmy Howard - Top ~5 NHL goalie, he WILL be on the USA team in Sochi

And that's not even considering pending UFAs in Filppula and Brunner.

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06-25-2013, 02:15 AM
  #65
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I love how Toews isn't clutch according to a lot of people here. I mean, the guy only scored the game tying goal, then primary assisted on the next game tying goal with a minute left...all while shutting down the best line in the playoffs and playing injured.

Remember that time when he was the best player on the gold medal team in Vancouver?

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06-25-2013, 02:15 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
Ah, ok. Intangibles.



I already put my opinion out on this matter in the last page. He had a disappointing Finals that year. Personally, I wouldn't have given him the Conn Smythe, but it was close. He did have a crazy point streak run.

But if every single Blackhawk is clutch like the OP pretty much said, wouldn't the Blackhawks have made it past the first round in 2011 and 2012?
You do know we lost half our roster in 2010 and had to replace them with league minimum players? Seriously, look at that team and see how many guys aren't in the league anymore and probably shouldn't have been then either.

It was the core that even got us into the playoffs with arguably the worst depth in the league and pushed Vancouver to Game 7 OT.

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06-25-2013, 02:21 AM
  #67
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I know it's an unproven core but when you draft 1st overall 3 years straight something's gotta give

Yakupov
Hall
Rnh
Eberle
Shultz
7th overall in a deep draft
Plus some promising d prospects

As of right now maybe but watch out for Edmonton soon

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06-25-2013, 02:22 AM
  #68
JSmith81x
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Originally Posted by MardocAgain View Post
Hawks may have to buyout Hossa. If he retires 1 year before his contract ends they take some ridiculous penalty, like $27M for 1 season.
About $4M if he retires a year early. That $20M+ was a math glitch that got passed around as truth.

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06-25-2013, 02:27 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doubleheader View Post
toews = top 8 (maybe even top 5) centre in the NHL, clutch, Olmypic gold, Selke, cup, intangiables,
kane = the new face of USA hockey, clutch, cup, top 5 best hands in the NHL.
Hossa = arguably the best 2 way winger of this generation, cup, 3 SCF appearances, selke.
Sharp = clutch, underrated 2 way game, underrated leader, one of the best snipers in the NHL, cup.
Saad = up and coming power forward, big, strong, good for 30+ goals every year.
keith = top 5 dman in the NHL, cup, Norris, Olympic gold.
Seabrook = top 10 dman in the NHL, cup, Olympic gold, clutch.
Leddy = up and coming top 4 PMD with lots of promise
Crawford = top 15 goalie, will most likely be on Team Canada.

I dont think any team can match this core.
The measure of a core (a team's top minute/multi-situational players) is not individual talent or stats. It is how much that talent collectively leads a team to success.

In Chicago's case, it has led to two championships over four seasons. That's a greater accomplishment than any other current NHL core.

So, yes, they are the best.


Last edited by Trottier: 06-25-2013 at 02:36 AM.
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06-25-2013, 02:42 AM
  #70
Intense Rage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
Toews has been able to score at a 40+ goal pace in the regular season for the past couple years. Come playoff time, that dips way down. Not clutch in my eyes.
Games 4,5,6 say otherwise. Anyway Toews at the age of 25 has already led us to two Cups. Meanwhile Alfie's most significant Finals moment is when he shot the puck at Neidermayer.

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06-25-2013, 02:47 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Leafs87 View Post
I know it's an unproven core but when you draft 1st overall 3 years straight something's gotta give

Yakupov
Hall
Rnh
Eberle
Shultz
7th overall in a deep draft
Plus some promising d prospects

As of right now maybe but watch out for Edmonton soon
Edmonton has a good core but need to start winning very soon. A core is only as good as your record. They are wasting the low salary years of these guys and will be hard pressed to keep them. Your "core" is guys who will be on your team for the next decade. The Toews Kane Hossa Keith seabrook core is 4-5 years in to their decade with 2 cups.

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06-25-2013, 02:54 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Taze em View Post
Edmonton has a good core but need to start winning very soon. A core is only as good as your record. They are wasting the low salary years of these guys and will be hard pressed to keep them. Your "core" is guys who will be on your team for the next decade. The Toews Kane Hossa Keith seabrook core is 4-5 years in to their decade with 2 cups.
Fair argument I too think edm wasted the low contract years of some of these players and don't have much of a supporting cast to win soon but at least they signed hall and Eberle long term. If they had some sort of plan I would have imagined management would have sent some of those players to juniors and bring them when they are ready to compete. For example send hall down for 1 year and rnh as well, and not burn a year off yakupovs contract in a shortened season. But at the same time I don't see much cap space issues with them and I think they will lock up their core and let other players walk like Chicago did

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06-25-2013, 03:00 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Taze em View Post
Edmonton has a good core but need to start winning very soon. A core is only as good as your record. They are wasting the low salary years of these guys and will be hard pressed to keep them. Your "core" is guys who will be on your team for the next decade. The Toews Kane Hossa Keith seabrook core is 4-5 years in to their decade with 2 cups.
Toews, Kane, Hossa, Keith and Seabrook are also 25, 24, 34, 29 and 28 respectively. Not that i'm saying the Oilers core is as good, cause it isn't close to the 'Hawks. But there is a huge difference from that and ages 19-22, Chicago also has had MUCH, MUCH better supporting cast during both Cups.

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06-25-2013, 03:00 AM
  #74
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Pit Chi and LA have the best cores in the league. Im loving the Leafs core that's coming up:

JVR Kadri Kessel
Lupul

Rielly Phaneuf
Gardiner Franson

Reimer
Bernier

If we could somehow get a second upcoming center, Leafs would take the league by storm.

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06-25-2013, 03:12 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Leafs87 View Post
Fair argument I too think edm wasted the low contract years of some of these players and don't have much of a supporting cast to win soon but at least they signed hall and Eberle long term. If they had some sort of plan I would have imagined management would have sent some of those players to juniors and bring them when they are ready to compete. For example send hall down for 1 year and rnh as well, and not burn a year off yakupovs contract in a shortened season. But at the same time I don't see much cap space issues with them and I think they will lock up their core and let other players walk like Chicago did
You can't keep talent like EDM has out of the league. The big difference between the hawks and Edmonton is that the Hawks loaded up in a big way almost immediately. Sign Campbell, hossa trade for Ladd, hit on some late picks (Byfuglien). The mistake Edmonton seems to be making is waiting.

You can't wait for your core to mature, once they are mature they have mature contracts. Sign guys, trade that #7 pick and don't worry about the dreaded cap hell. It will shake itself out like it did for the Hawks. It's harder for Edmonton because they aren't as big of a draw as Chicago was for a guy like Hossa. But you have some success and those guys will come.

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