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Rank the 2013 Blackhawks among Cup Winners since the lockout

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06-25-2013, 09:41 AM
  #101
la patineuse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon70 View Post
The 2013 Blackhawks were a period away from being eliminated in the second round. The 2012 Kings never faced an elimination game. They steamrolled every team they faced.

In your opinion the 2012 Kings may not be better than the 2013 Hawks but that is just your opinion. A beatened up Kings team played the Hwaks close, I would like to see what a healthy King team with Mitchell would do.
Wow, STILL using injuries as an excuse. NEWS FLASH: most teams have injuries during the playoffs, some more significant than others, and some with some significant undisclosed injuries. You use the kings injuries as an excuse this year, but fail to acknowledge they were extremely fortunate to get through last year's Stanley Cup playoffs with no players significantly injured. Try some consistency for once.

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06-25-2013, 09:43 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Cruel11 View Post
Excuses, excuses. There is always excuses.
Yeah, like the poor widdle kings were sooooooo banged up this year.

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06-25-2013, 10:08 AM
  #103
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The 2010 hawks had better players but the 2013 hawks played better. So as far as who is better? Who knows? WHO CARES! 2 cups in 4 years!!!!

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06-25-2013, 10:15 AM
  #104
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Tier 1

2008 Detroit
2007 Anaheim

2008 version of Detroit. The most dominant team in modern hockey. Could have been even more dominant hadn't it been for some lack of luck in a game vs. Dallas and a game vs. Pittsburgh.
2007 version of Anaheim. The most physical team in modern hockey. And they had a good amount of skill to go with it.

Both teams a head above the rest.

Tier 2

2010 Chicago
2013 Chicago
2009 Pittsburgh
2011 Boston

2010 Chicago, great top six, good contributions from the rest of the team.
2013 Chicago, a little bit paler top 6 when it comes to scoring this year, greater contributions from the bottom six and from the rest of the team.
2009 Pittsburgh, great top forwards, well-timed contributions from bottom six and overall good D and goaltending.
2011 Boston, great depth, overall scoring, good D and great goaltending.

Tier 3

2012 Los Angeles

Well. Even though the team went 16-4. I think except for the first round vs. Vancouver which was a big upset, the rest of the way I think the opponent were kind of favorable stylish-wise(matchup). But, they had great goaltending and overall a solid NHL-team who got hot at the right time and had some luck.

Tier 4

2006 Carolina

Well. Nothing except goaltending stood out on this team. They worked their way to the Cup, but a little bit of anonymous compared to other teams.

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06-25-2013, 11:48 AM
  #105
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I'm a homer so I put the Ducks at #1, mainly due to the physical nature of the team compared to that 08 Detroit team. But I think it is kind of a toss up, and the case can be made for both as the best post-lockout champ.

07 Ducks
08 Wings
13 Hawks
12 Kings
10 Hawks
11 Bruins
09 Pens
06 Canes

I do think the 2013 wire to wire domination counts for something.

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06-25-2013, 11:59 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirKillalot View Post
Tier 1

2008 Detroit
2007 Anaheim

2008 version of Detroit. The most dominant team in modern hockey. Could have been even more dominant hadn't it been for some lack of luck in a game vs. Dallas and a game vs. Pittsburgh.
2007 version of Anaheim. The most physical team in modern hockey. And they had a good amount of skill to go with it.

Both teams a head above the rest.

Tier 2

2010 Chicago
2013 Chicago
2009 Pittsburgh
2011 Boston

2010 Chicago, great top six, good contributions from the rest of the team.
2013 Chicago, a little bit paler top 6 when it comes to scoring this year, greater contributions the bottom six and from the rest of the team.
2009 Pittsburgh, great top forwards, well-timed contributions from bottom six and overall good D and goaltending.
2011 Boston, great depth, overall scoring, good D and great goaltending.

Tier 3

2012 Los Angeles

Well. Even though the team went 16-4. I think except for the first round vs. Vancouver which was a big upset, the rest of the way I think the opponent were kind of favorable stylish-wise(matchup). But, they had great goaltending and overall a solid NHL-team who got hot at the right time and had some luck.

Tier 4

2006 Carolina

Well. Nothing except goaltending stood out on this team. They worked their way to the Cup, but a little bit of anonymous compared to other teams.
Well said. Its too hard, IMO to say on paper who would win between the 07 Ducks and the 08 Wings, the styles were just so opposite. The Ducks could have simply been too physical or the Wings may have just had too much more skill. Its a toss up and a great debate.

Agree with your other tiers as well.

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06-25-2013, 03:27 PM
  #107
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2007 Ducks
2008 Red Wings
2010 Blackhawks
2013 Blackhawks
2012 Kings
2011 Bruins
2009 Penguins
2006 Hurricanes

although tbh there's tons of variation possible. the only one I feel very confident in is the hurricanes last

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06-25-2013, 06:09 PM
  #108
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It's the 2007 Ducks or 2008 Red Wings.

My vote is the Wings because they were the most dominant team from the beginning of the regular season to the Stanley Cup Finals and they did it over an 82 game season unlike Chicago this year. Also, they never faced elimination.

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06-25-2013, 06:56 PM
  #109
la patineuse
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Originally Posted by DanZ View Post
It's the 2007 Ducks or 2008 Red Wings.

My vote is the Wings because they were the most dominant team from the beginning of the regular season to the Stanley Cup Finals and they did it over an 82 game season unlike Chicago this year. Also, they never faced elimination.
I could go either way with the 2007 Ducks or the 2008 Red Wings, although the homer in me says the Ducks. But there is also this, though the Ducks were the number 3 team in the NHL in the 2007 regular season, behind Detroit and Buffalo, head-to-head against all of the other 15 playoff teams through th 82 game season, the Ducks had the most number of points and the most number of wins.

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06-25-2013, 07:01 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Second, behind only the 2007-08 Red Wings who I find are very underrated on here. The roster won't blow you over like the '07 Ducks or the '10 Hawks, but the results sure do. 115 points, President's Trophy, 3rd in goals, 1st in goals against, took just 22 games to win the Cup.
Agreed

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06-25-2013, 07:24 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by ShattStar03 View Post
LOL @ people thinking that the Kings cup run was weak. An 8th seed with a 16-4 postseason record that rolled through the 1st, 2nd, 3rd seeds. How many other 8th seeded teams were able to do that in history? Let alone sport history?
And jumped out to a 3-0 lead every series, and set a lot of records including goaltending, etc.

But despite all that I thought we already established the Kings were the luckiest, flukiest, least-worthy cup champion in history despite making it back to the WCF vs. the eventual well-deserved champion this year, so why are the Kings even in this conversation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post

Vancouver was missing D.Sedin for 3 games all of which they lost and Kesler was playing through injuries he had no business playing through. St. Louis was missing Halak (for the whole series) and Pietrangelo (for half the series). Phoenix was the 3 seed on paper only - they had all of 1 more point than LA and only barely made the playoffs themselves. NJD had a 40 year old goalie well past his prime in net and a defense led by Bryce Salvador.

I'm not trying to claim LA didn't deserve the cup or anything but when comparing them to other post lockout winners I have them ranked 6 of 8. There's nothing unreasonable about that.
Not really at you directly, but since you mention it--L.A. was 1 point out of third place but were an 8 seed. Some posters were slagging L.A. for a bad regular season since they snuck in as an 8 seed, while others are discrediting their opponent in PHX because they weren't a 'real' 3 seed. So which one is it? Can't have it both ways...

Detroit
Anaheim
Chicago '10
Los Angeles
Chicago '13
Boston
Pittsburgh
Carolina

Though I don't think the list is very cut-and-dry...lots of tough decisions to make in there.

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06-25-2013, 08:22 PM
  #112
la patineuse
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I think the Kings 8th place seeding was misleading and discounted how good a team the Kings were. Both the coaching change and acquiring Carter at the trade deadline seemed like the last pieces of the puzzle that made the Kings such a strong team for the last half of the season and through the playoffs. And Quick played phenomenally well.

But at the same time, some Kings fans don't acknowledge that the Kings did have a lot of good fortune going their way last year too. This includes no significant injuries in comparison to their opponents, and frankly, I can't remember a SC winning team that had almost their entire roster relatively healthy throughout their entire run. In contrast, look at the Kings this year and how their injury situation affected their run. The Kings upset of the Canucks was impressive, although the Canucks also had some significant injuries, but their remaining opponents weren't exactly juggernauts. St. Louis would have been stronger, but they lost both Halak and Pietrangelo and that really hurt them. Can you imagine if the Kings didn't have Quick and Doughty?

All of this doesn't mean what the Kings did last year wasn't damn impressive or that they didn't deserve to win the Stanley Cup; they absolutely did. I just don't think they were as good a team as the 07 Ducks, 08 Red Wings, or the 10/13 Blackhawks.

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06-25-2013, 09:24 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by la patineuse View Post
I think the Kings 8th place seeding was misleading and discounted how good a team the Kings were. Both the coaching change and acquiring Carter at the trade deadline seemed like the last pieces of the puzzle that made the Kings such a strong team for the last half of the season and through the playoffs. And Quick played phenomenally well.

But at the same time, some Kings fans don't acknowledge that the Kings did have a lot of good fortune going their way last year too. This includes no significant injuries in comparison to their opponents, and frankly, I can't remember a SC winning team that had almost their entire roster relatively healthy throughout their entire run. In contrast, look at the Kings this year and how their injury situation affected their run. The Kings upset of the Canucks was impressive, although the Canucks also had some significant injuries, but their remaining opponents weren't exactly juggernauts. St. Louis would have been stronger, but they lost both Halak and Pietrangelo and that really hurt them. Can you imagine if the Kings didn't have Quick and Doughty?

All of this doesn't mean what the Kings did last year wasn't damn impressive or that they didn't deserve to win the Stanley Cup; they absolutely did. I just don't think they were as good a team as the 07 Ducks, 08 Red Wings, or the 10/13 Blackhawks.
Yep, their record after the Sutter hiring (even pre-Carter--though that was another catalyst) was 24-13-11--sounds a whole lot more like the Kings everyone saw in the playoffs than just another 8 seed.

I agree wholeheartedly--but that fortune is a part of nearly every cup run. We WERE missing Gagne the whole time--but that's just a footnote because everyone stepped up. I think you'll be hard-pressed to find a reasonable Kings fan disavow the fortune of health, players at the top of their game, and even favorable matchups, but it's in how that info is presented, because most often, it's used to cheapen their run. Still, you can only play who is in front of you, and I always figured the strength of their run down the stretch plus going 16-4 in the playoffs would show how strong that team was (plus making it back to the WCF this year despite significant injuries and slumps). Plus, it's not like each of those champs didn't have a bit of fortune of their own in regards to health, unlikely heroes, and good matchups--people often say this as if the Kings were the only ones to ever benefit from this.

Not necessarily lecturing you--I mostly agree with everything you said. Just elaborating a bit

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06-25-2013, 11:08 PM
  #114
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2008 Red Wings, and it's not even close.

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06-25-2013, 11:09 PM
  #115
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2008 Detroit Red Wings were the best team since the last lockout, and the best team since the 2002 Red Wings.

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06-25-2013, 11:35 PM
  #116
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Canes may belong on the bottom of this list, due to their defense which is, was, and always will be pathetic, but saying they only have a good goalie, are in a different tier or flew under the radar is a bit inaccurate.

This team scored 3.49 goals a game in the regular season which was 3rd in the league and had 112 points, also good for 3rd in the league. This mostly without late season acquisitions Recchi and Weight and Ward as a BACKUP. Gerber was this team's starter during the reg season. And he is TERRIBLE yet this team was still 3rd in points? Only goalie? How did Ward pull that off from the bench?

To put that into comparison

3.49 g/g is higher than every team on this list and in some cases substantially. I'm looking at you Kings.

I understand the argument that scoring was up due to the lockout and focus on obstruction but even when compared to other teams that year this was a top 5 offense for the entire season, not a hot playoff team with a hot goalie. This team rode their forwards to the playoffs and Ward (at a good but not best .920%) stole a few games.

Possible HOFers Weight, Recci were basically 3rd liners on this team and were 6th and 7th in post season points for the Canes. This was when Staal (100 points) was actually good and Brind'Amour was one of the best 2 way players in the league. Williams would only go on to be the arguably 3rd best forward for the Kings in their SCF run but was 4th in scoring in the post season for this team at his absolute peak (76 reg season points). Cole, Stillman, Whitney great complimentary players. This team had Ladd in and out of the lineup and he'd only go on to get another cup and become a captain. Did I mention Babchuk?


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06-26-2013, 12:34 PM
  #117
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To expand on my earlier post, a more detailed breakdown (gaps intentional):

Forwards:
Chicago 2010
Detroit
Chicago 2013
Carolina

Pittsburgh
Anaheim
Boston

LA

Defence:
Anaheim
Detroit

Chicago 2010
Chicago 2013
LA
Boston


Pittsburgh
Carolina

Goaltending:
Thomas
Quick

Crawford
Ward
Gigučre
Osgood

Fleury
Niemi

Coaching:
Babcock and Sutter were probably the best during their playoff runs - I felt those teams performed better than they should have, on paper.

Overall:
Wings
Ducks
'13 Hawks
'10 Hawks
Kings
Bruins
Hurricanes
Penguins

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Old
06-26-2013, 12:57 PM
  #118
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Their '10 was better, IMO.

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06-26-2013, 01:17 PM
  #119
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For those slagging the Kings' offense--keep in mind you're talking about 2012's 2.85 GPG team (3rd only to the Pittsburgh/Philly goaltending suck-off) not this year's hang-on-for-dear-life walking wounded

I realize that's a lower GPG than other cup champs, but I doubt anyone looked at last year's run and went "wow their offense sucks"

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06-26-2013, 01:24 PM
  #120
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Ducks and Wings are still easily #1 and 2. You cannot go wrong with either one.

I think the real argument is between the 2 Hawks teams and the Kings for the next 3 spots.

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06-26-2013, 02:51 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HjamSandwich View Post
lol at putting an 8 seed ahead of the wire to wire champions.
16-2 is better than what the hawks did

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Old
06-26-2013, 02:56 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Rob Nieds work ethic View Post
Their '10 was better, IMO.
I disagree

Hawks 2013 team had much better D and G

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06-26-2013, 03:50 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by The Cheat View Post
16-2 is better than what the hawks did
Hilarious that 16-4, 3-0 in every series, 10 straight wins on the road, and records in save percentage and goals against has somehow worked AGAINST the '12 Kings in this debate.

16-4 was just luck of the draw. Okay. That's why it happened three times in the last 30 years, with the other teams to do it being total teams of legend.

'12 Kings are the Rodney Dangerfield of hockey. People get hung up on the "eighth seed" like it's actually relevant whatsoever in any way shape or form. The '13 Kings went on a great run to the WCF, had by FAR the toughest road of any final four team, and still played the Hawks close. Thought that would diminish any continuing notion of 2012 being "luck" but I guess not.

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06-26-2013, 03:58 PM
  #124
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I think 2013 was a better team than 2010 despite 2010 having more all-around talent (thank you Kane, Toews, and Keith costing less than 3 mil in 2010 cap). The goaltending and defense in 2013 was miles ahead of those in 2010. The offense wasn't as good but if 2013 had even a remotely passable PP I might see them closer.

Wings
Ducks
Hawks (2013)
Hawks (2010)
Kings
Bruins
Penguins
Canes

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06-26-2013, 04:05 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Richie10 View Post
Hilarious that 16-4, 3-0 in every series, 10 straight wins on the road, and records in save percentage and goals against has somehow worked AGAINST the '12 Kings in this debate.

16-4 was just luck of the draw. Okay. That's why it happened three times in the last 30 years, with the other teams to do it being total teams of legend.

'12 Kings are the Rodney Dangerfield of hockey. People get hung up on the "eighth seed" like it's actually relevant whatsoever in any way shape or form. The '13 Kings went on a great run to the WCF, had by FAR the toughest road of any final four team, and still played the Hawks close. Thought that would diminish any continuing notion of 2012 being "luck" but I guess not.
I guess being ranked consistently 3-5 out of 8 Cup winners is garnering no respect.

Also why is it that Kings fans want to dismiss talk of injuries and opponents during the '12 run but bring up these arguments during the '13 run?

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