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Jonathan Toews is a legend

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06-26-2013, 01:51 PM
  #101
Trance Kuja
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The amount of times Lebron and Toews said either we or I following the clinching game:


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06-26-2013, 02:14 PM
  #102
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Toews had bad finals 2010, but he scored the goal to tie game 6 and then just assisted the 2nd goal to tie the game again. That's clutch. Much like Kane was clutch Game 5 against the Kings, Game 5 and 6 against the Bs

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06-26-2013, 02:26 PM
  #103
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Toews is almost always this team's MVP, though in these playoffs maybe it was Crawford. Don't care how many goals Bickell or Kane scored, though. This is just like the regular season folks saying Kane was our best player. A bunch of nonsense. Toews is an even-strength beast, maybe the best player in the league not named Crosby this year. He and Bergeron are the two best defensive forwards in the entire NHL probably.

And yet, OMG he isn't scoring. And yet the guys like Richards and Datsyuk and Zetterberg and Krejci who he went up again fared much worse against him. How many tap-in goals did Bicks and Kane have that were the result of Toews' battling in the corners and behind the goal line? Kane fanboys need to get real. He's an elite player but Toews is the real leader of the Blackhawks.

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06-26-2013, 03:10 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Trance Kuja View Post
The amount of times Lebron and Toews said either we or I following the clinching game:

so perfect

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06-26-2013, 03:11 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by BronYrAur View Post
Toews is almost always this team's MVP, though in these playoffs maybe it was Crawford. Don't care how many goals Bickell or Kane scored, though. This is just like the regular season folks saying Kane was our best player. A bunch of nonsense. Toews is an even-strength beast, maybe the best player in the league not named Crosby this year. He and Bergeron are the two best defensive forwards in the entire NHL probably.

And yet, OMG he isn't scoring. And yet the guys like Richards and Datsyuk and Zetterberg and Krejci who he went up again fared much worse against him. How many tap-in goals did Bicks and Kane have that were the result of Toews' battling in the corners and behind the goal line? Kane fanboys need to get real. He's an elite player but Toews is the real leader of the Blackhawks.
I 100% agree.

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06-26-2013, 03:31 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by BronYrAur View Post
Toews is almost always this team's MVP, though in these playoffs maybe it was Crawford. Don't care how many goals Bickell or Kane scored, though. This is just like the regular season folks saying Kane was our best player. A bunch of nonsense. Toews is an even-strength beast, maybe the best player in the league not named Crosby this year. He and Bergeron are the two best defensive forwards in the entire NHL probably.

And yet, OMG he isn't scoring. And yet the guys like Richards and Datsyuk and Zetterberg and Krejci who he went up again fared much worse against him. How many tap-in goals did Bicks and Kane have that were the result of Toews' battling in the corners and behind the goal line? Kane fanboys need to get real. He's an elite player but Toews is the real leader of the Blackhawks.
Not many, unless you include every battle - regardless of if it was relevant to the play - Toews is involved in on a goal scored.

No one denies most else of what you said.. but Kane was the MVP of this team in the regular season. The Hawks don't have a 2nd line without him. Kane was this team's offense for most of the season, including a big portion of the playoffs.

You can't say Toews is the better all-round player, so clearly he's the most valuable. The playoffs more than proved that. He's always the leader, always a two-way force, but not always the most valuable player in Chicago's success.

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06-26-2013, 03:56 PM
  #107
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No one denies most else of what you said.. but Kane was the MVP of this team in the regular season. The Hawks don't have a 2nd line without him. Kane was this team's offense for most of the season, including a big portion of the playoffs.
I, along with the Hart voters, do not agree with the bolded.

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06-26-2013, 03:59 PM
  #108
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I, along with the Hart voters, do not agree with the bolded.
The Hart voters voted for Alex Ovechkin. Clearly, their opinion means a lot.

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06-26-2013, 04:02 PM
  #109
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Kane was the MVP this season, but Toews found his stride in the latter half of the season. Just because the Hart voters voted for Toews, it doesn't make it untrue. There's plenty wrong with the voting in general on all awards, not just the writers association. One GM voted for Emery in the Vezina voting.

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06-26-2013, 04:10 PM
  #110
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I still think Kane was the MVP of the regular season. It actually kind of annoyed me Toews finished ahead of him in voting. Doesn't really matter now though.

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06-26-2013, 04:13 PM
  #111
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I still think Kane was the MVP of the regular season. It actually kind of annoyed me Toews finished ahead of him in voting. Doesn't really matter now though.
I figured Toews would, but I still think Kane was the MVP this season. Him winning the Conn Smythe makes up for that. And not to mention, we won the Cup! Can't be upset at anything.

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06-26-2013, 04:27 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Toews and Kane are the best Blackhawks in the history of the team. Hands down. I know Hull and Mikita were great, Savard, etc.. but 2 Cups, each with a Conn Smythe. Unbelievable. Love them both.
This is interesting considering Mikita and Hull are considered top 10 players all time in NHL history (at least Hull certainly is) and Mikita is without question a top 15.

I'll say that Toews is certainly (as far as Blackhawk history) right up there with Hull and Mikita however, Kane falls into the Savard category.

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06-26-2013, 04:28 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
This is interesting considering Mikita and Hull are considered top 10 players all time in NHL history (at least Hull certainly is) and Mikita is without question a top 15.

I'll say that Toews is certainly (as far as Blackhawk history) right up there with Hull and Mikita however, Kane falls into the Savard category.
How many Cups and/or Conn Smythes does Denis Savard have?

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06-26-2013, 04:34 PM
  #114
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I will say that if Toews had a stronger offensive playoffs and won the Conn Smythe he would have cemented himself in the HOF at the age of 25.

IMO, Toews is already in given his impressive resume and all he needs is another strong season with hardware and he will without question be a HOF'er...

The Hawks repeat and guys like Keith, Seabrook and Sharp will eventually get in to the HOF.

Obviously Hossa is already in.

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06-26-2013, 04:35 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
How many Cups and/or Conn Smythes does Denis Savard have?
Hull & Mikita for that matter too.

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06-26-2013, 04:36 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
The Hawks repeat and guys like Keith, Seabrook and Sharp will eventually get in to the HOF.
We know how you feel about Kane. How convenient you leave him out.

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06-26-2013, 04:37 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
How many Cups and/or Conn Smythes does Denis Savard have?
Savard has 1 cup and is already a HOF'er...

Furthermore Savard and Kane are/were similar players however, Savard was the better player in his prime.

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06-26-2013, 04:39 PM
  #118
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We know how you feel about Kane. How convenient you leave him out.
I didn't mean to leave Kane out....One more cup and he's a HOF'er as well.

You don't know how I feel about Kane. I'm the biggest supporter of Kane and a huge fan, however comparing Kane to Mikita and Savard is delusional.

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06-26-2013, 04:39 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
I will say that if Toews had a stronger offensive playoffs and won the Conn Smythe he would have cemented himself in the HOF at the age of 25.

IMO, Toews is already in given his impressive resume and all he needs is another strong season with hardware and he will without question be a HOF'er...

The Hawks repeat and guys like Keith, Seabrook and Sharp will eventually get in to the HOF.

Obviously Hossa is already in.
Toews has less than 500 career points, he's got a little ways to go before he's considered a lock. That pretty much goes for every other Hawk ATM, besides Hossa.

Sharp? Seabrook? They aren't getting in. They don't have any individual hardware.

Hossa, Kane, Keith and Toews have the best shot at getting in.

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06-26-2013, 04:40 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Trance Kuja View Post
I figured Toews would, but I still think Kane was the MVP this season. Him winning the Conn Smythe makes up for that. And not to mention, we won the Cup! Can't be upset at anything.
Nope! I haven't been upset about anything since Bolland scored.

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06-26-2013, 04:42 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
I'm the biggest supporter of Kane and a huge fan, however comparing Kane to Mikita and Savard is delusional.
But comparing Toews to Hull and Mikita is hunky dory? Toews and Kane go hand in hand just like Mikita and Hull did. They will go down as the best Blackhawks of not only the past 30 years, but possibly of all time. Winning championships > individual point production. Mikita and Hull are revered as mythical figures from some past era, so people are reluctant to admit that a current player can have a bigger impact or matter more.


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06-26-2013, 04:47 PM
  #122
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Toews has less than 500 career points, he's got a little ways to go before he's considered a lock. That pretty much goes for every other Hawk ATM, besides Hossa.

Sharp? Seabrook? They aren't getting in. They don't have any individual hardware.

Hossa, Kane, Keith and Toews have the best shot at getting in.
Really?

Take a look who is in the HOF from the 70's and 80's dynasties...

As far as Toews..... How many team captains that have lead their team to 2 cups in 4 years are NOT in the HOF??? I think we have to go back to the WWII scrub era to find an answer for that.

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06-26-2013, 04:52 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Trance Kuja View Post
But comparing Toews to Hull and Mikita is hunky dory? Toews and Kane go hand in hand just like Mikita and Hull did. They will go down as the best Blackhawks of not only the past 30 years, but possibly of all time. Winning championships > individual point production. Mikita and Hull are revered as mythical figures from some past era, so people are reluctant to admit that a current player can have a bigger impact or matter more.
Yes, comparing Toews to Hull is more reasonable than comparing Kane to Mikita or Savard...

Honestly I'm not even comfortable to making those comparisons.

I can compare Keith and Seabrook all day to Wilson and Murray.

As a matter of fact - You put a guy like Bryan Trottier on the Blackhawks in the early to mid 80's and you have a team extremely similar to our present Blackhawks team if we're going to make comparisons.

The only reason why guys like Wilson, Murray and Larmer aren't in the HOF is because they didn't win cups in their prime.


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06-26-2013, 05:05 PM
  #124
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Really?

Take a look who is in the HOF from the 70's and 80's dynasties...

As far as Toews..... How many team captains that have lead their team to 2 cups in 4 years are NOT in the HOF??? I think we have to go back to the WWII scrub era to find an answer for that.
The Oilers-7
6 players, 1 coach.
All players finished their careers with over 1,000 points.

The Islanders-7
6 players, 1 coach.
5-6 players finished their careers with over 1,000 points.

The Canadiens won 7 Cups in the 70's. I'm sure that got a lot of guys in.

The Flyers-3
3 players.
1-3 finished their career with 1,000 points.

1,000 points seems to be the benchmark.

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06-26-2013, 05:13 PM
  #125
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Yes, comparing Toews to Hull is more reasonable than comparing Kane to Mikita or Savard.
How?

Bobby Hull was a goal scoring machine. 5x 50 goal scorer. 3x 40 goal scorer. 5x 30 goal scorer. That's not counting some of the monster seasons he had in the WHA.

In what way does Toews compare to him?

Don't take it as a knock against Toews, I like him...but I think people like talking out of their *****.

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