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The Crosby Honeymoon Has To Be Over

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06-25-2013, 01:26 PM
  #26
Jax1166
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
if the superstars are running the club, thats not the superstars fault. thats on coaching and management.
It's less on HCDB and more on the players, and management/ownersehip. They care more about style and stats than wins. The players are the reason HCDB is coach, if he was fired no way Geno stays or perhaps Letang.

They have this culture and only Mario can crack down and he won't because HE played the same way after 1992....those Pens were all style with no defense.

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06-25-2013, 01:27 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Are you kidding?

Dupuis and Kunitz aren't in the same galaxy as Hossa and Kane. Holy Cow. Neither is an ideal top-6 scorer. Kunitz is an ideal top-6 winger in a purely support role. Dupuis is an ideal 3rd line guy.
did he look worlds better with hossa on his line?
did he look worlds better with iggy on his line?

be honest.

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06-25-2013, 01:29 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Karnage420 View Post
now this is a fair argument.

the penguins have become a country club. with the two big centers determining the style of play they like.

but hey, its their choice not to win another cup i guess...true shame.

what can we do? nothing.
If the superstars were running this club, don't you think the superstars would give themselves better wingers?

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06-25-2013, 01:29 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Karnage420 View Post
i think dupuis has grown into an ideal top line winger. and kunitz is (was?) incredible at creating space for him.

i just dont think this is an applicable argument anymore. would he really be that much better with say - iginla on his line? hossa? kane?

i highly doubt it.
Yeah this is wrong. Dupuis is not an ideal top line winger. Not even a little bit. If you don't see the difference that someone like Hossa or Kane would have made, then I just dont know.

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06-25-2013, 01:29 PM
  #30
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the only credence I give to this is that it's one thing to be completely shut down, and part of that is the fact that he made several really good passes that his teammates just couldn't finish on, it's quite another to directly contribute to a loss and be a turnover machine.

Crosby directly started the madness that was game 2 versus boston with probably the worst turnover I've ever seen. I think my son's squirt team makes better decisions on passing then that.

How many times did he try to force a pass that simply was not there and a bruin was just standing their calmly waiting to intercept it? Anyone can see that he is trying harder then anyone on the ice, but no player in the modern era is going to break through if the other team does nothing but game plan how to shut them down.

He has to learn to not force things that should not be forced.

My biggest gripe is he is wearing the C, when the team discipline goes to crap he has to be the one getting everyone back on the same page, not the one leading the way with dumb plays. I think Crosby deserves the "C" I think 30 gm's in the league if they were picking one guy to start their team with would pick Crosby. Maybe Crosby should be on the couch with Fleury in the offseason


my name is elmer fudd, millionaire, I own a mansion and a yacht, and I won't turn the puck over high in the offensive zone time and time again.

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06-25-2013, 01:30 PM
  #31
Karnage420
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Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
Yeah this is wrong. Dupuis is not an ideal top line winger. Not even a little bit. If you don't see the difference that someone like Hossa or Kane would have made, then I just dont know.
we had hossa on this team you know.

i dont see how it changed crosby's game for better or worse.

did he make the team better? of course. but thats not what this is about.

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06-25-2013, 01:30 PM
  #32
IcedCapp
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Originally Posted by Karnage420 View Post
did he look worlds better with hossa on his line?
did he look worlds better with iggy on his line?

be honest.
Again, are you serious?

He had 1.5 games with Iginla and Dupuis. I'm saying that Dupuis ISN'T a top-6 winger in the playoffs, so I don't see how that can be used as an argument.

As for Hossa, Crosby had his highest Playoff PPG in the 08 playoffs with Hossa (1.35ppg)

So yes, I would say he looked better with Hossa, if I'm being honest with you.

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06-25-2013, 01:30 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Doakes View Post
No.
The only games that matter are the playoffs.
This isn't 1999 were we aim to be an 8th seed and cinderella a win.

We have a team that should have accomplished what the Hawks did and was hyped to....so stop trying to impress me with 8-4 wins over Florida, hat tricks against the Sabres, and start winning playoff series against GOOD teams.
How about addressing the fact that Crosby is 4th all time in PLAYOFF PPG? How do you explain that one?

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06-25-2013, 01:31 PM
  #34
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Crosby hasn't carried this team, and he has not had a signature Steve Yzerman moment which for someone hyped over, should have by now.

I mean not ONE OT goal?
When Crosby faces good defensive teams (Detroit/Boston) he does not produce and gets neutrilized way too easily for someone of his billing.

He needs to step up, period, in the playoffs.
For him, it's about cups, the regular season now means jack.

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06-25-2013, 01:32 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Karnage420 View Post
did he look worlds better with hossa on his line?
did he look worlds better with iggy on his line?

be honest.
Actually yes the Sid-Hossa combination looked great once they gained chemistry. You are out to lunch on this one.

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06-25-2013, 01:33 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karnage420 View Post
we had hossa on this team you know.

i dont see how it changed crosby's game for better or worse.

did he make the team better? of course. but thats not what this is about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Again, are you serious?

He had 1.5 games with Iginla and Dupuis. I'm saying that Dupuis ISN'T a top-6 winger in the playoffs, so I don't see how that can be used as an argument.

As for Hossa, Crosby had his highest Playoff PPG in the 08 playoffs with Hossa (1.35ppg)

So yes, I would say he looked better with Hossa, if I'm being honest with you.
I would have answered with this.

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06-25-2013, 01:33 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
How about addressing the fact that Crosby is 4th all time in PLAYOFF PPG? How do you explain that one?
HAs Crosby ever won us a series?
Has he ever scored an OT goal?
How many game winners?

How many cups did he win?
How'd he do in the 2009 finals?

How has Crosby been when NOT facing an 8 seed or a poor defensive team? When he has faced real tough playoff compotetion, how has looked?

Easy to stat pad when facing the Islanders. Do it against the Bruins or a real playoff team.

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06-25-2013, 01:33 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Karnage420 View Post
we had hossa on this team you know.

i dont see how it changed crosby's game for better or worse.

did he make the team better? of course. but thats not what this is about.
Now I'm lost. What are you talking about? Crosby and the team would be better with Hossa.

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06-25-2013, 01:34 PM
  #39
Karnage420
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Again, are you serious?

He had 1.5 games with Iginla and Dupuis. I'm saying that Dupuis ISN'T a top-6 winger in the playoffs, so I don't see how that can be used as an argument.

As for Hossa, Crosby had his highest Playoff PPG in the 08 playoffs with Hossa (1.35ppg)

So yes, I would say he looked better with Hossa, if I'm being honest with you.
didnt dupuis co-lead playoff goals with crosby at one point? how is that not top 6 worthy?

to be quite frank - i think kunitz was the problem on the line these playoffs.

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06-25-2013, 01:35 PM
  #40
IcedCapp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karnage420 View Post
didnt dupuis co-lead playoff goals with crosby at one point? how is that not top 6 worthy?

to be quite frank - i think kunitz was the problem on the line these playoffs.
How many of Dupuis points were scored on Crosby's line?

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06-25-2013, 01:36 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doakes View Post
HAs Crosby ever won us a series?
Has he ever scored an OT goal?
How many game winners?

How many cups did he win?
How'd he do in the 2009 finals?

How has Crosby been when NOT facing an 8 seed or a poor defensive team? When he has faced real tough playoff compotetion, how has looked?

Easy to stat pad when facing the Islanders. Do it against the Bruins or a real playoff team.
It's official. This board has officially lost its mind

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06-25-2013, 01:38 PM
  #42
Shady Machine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doakes View Post
HAs Crosby ever won us a series?
Has he ever scored an OT goal?
How many game winners?

How many cups did he win?
How'd he do in the 2009 finals?

How has Crosby been when NOT facing an 8 seed or a poor defensive team? When he has faced real tough playoff compotetion, how has looked?

Easy to stat pad when facing the Islanders. Do it against the Bruins or a real playoff team.
Yes Crosby won us the Capitals series by being dominant throughout. He also was really good in the Flyers series to open those playoffs. Yes Crosby scored the Gold Medal winning goal in overtime to win the Olympics. I'm not aware of his game winners but he has been instrumental and huge in the playoffs against good teams including the Flyers, Caps, Rangers, old Senators, etc. He didn't get the 4th highest playoff PPG of all time by playing the Islanders once this year.

Crosby has won one cup. Crosby was good in the finals against Detroit but Zetterberg and co. did a very good job shutting him down. That allowed Malkin to face easier competition and help the team score.

You are basing this argument on ONE playoff series where he, Malkin, Letang, and co were all shut out with zero points. You need to get a grip on reality.

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06-25-2013, 01:38 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karnage420 View Post
didnt dupuis co-lead playoff goals with crosby at one point? how is that not top 6 worthy?

to be quite frank - i think kunitz was the problem on the line these playoffs.
The last time he scored an even strength goal was game 4 against the Isles. Only 2 of his 7 goals came on a line with Sid.

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06-25-2013, 01:38 PM
  #44
Karnage420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doakes View Post
HAs Crosby ever won us a series?
Has he ever scored an OT goal?
How many game winners?

How many cups did he win?
How'd he do in the 2009 finals?

How has Crosby been when NOT facing an 8 seed or a poor defensive team? When he has faced real tough playoff compotetion, how has looked?

Easy to stat pad when facing the Islanders. Do it against the Bruins or a real playoff team.
1) crosby won us the philly series. maybe the capitals series too.
2) who cares
3) not sure, pretty pointless stat tho really.
4) 1
5) not great, but we really shouldnt have won that series. talbot > crosby?
6) looked incredible in 2009 against some of the hardest teams in the east. not enough sample size since. (yeah he was bad against boston, but everyone looked bad really)

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06-25-2013, 01:55 PM
  #45
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"game winners" are the dumbest stat recorded aside from maybe hits and plus minus.

Why someone is using that as on of their points, is beyond me.

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06-25-2013, 01:57 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Doakes View Post
I'm no hater. I love Crosby. He's the hardest working player on the team. He's a fun player, and a good person.

But, he has yet to have a signature playoff moment.
He has not won a conn smyth. He hasn't scored an OT playoff goal. He hasn't willed his team to win.
In 2009, he was held pointless the final three games.

Crosby is hyped as the best player in hockey, the face of the game, and his regular season stats do support it. But his injuries and playoff performances are disappointing.

I envisioned Crosby being like Kane, winning a Conn Smyth, multiple cups, and the OT/game hero.
He hasn't delievered and scarringly is becoming more and more like Arod in that sense...hyped as the best player, great stats, but short post seasons.

Next season and until he does differently, the heat is on him to produce in the playoffs as the unstopbable franchise, generational talent would in my view.
I wish that I could fight you on this but I just can't. It goes beyond Sid.

Malkins good every other year.

Neal came to the Pens and stops hitting.

Martin needs to be reminded to play like a man.

Letang and MAF have these huge gaps in their games and the same problems every year.

Iggy comes to the Pens and looks completely lost.

Cooke stops being Cooke.

The Pens win doing certain things and then change it up. Only to lose doing certain things and stay the same way.

A culture change is needed and needed ASAP. I downright loathe almost everything the Pens have turned into since that cup win.

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06-25-2013, 02:01 PM
  #47
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He would have won that conn smythe had Malkin not played out of this world with circus backhand wraparound shots going top corner on hot goalies.

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06-25-2013, 02:03 PM
  #48
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I think the Team Honeymoon is over.

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06-25-2013, 02:06 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by spizzle420 View Post
He would have won that conn smythe had Malkin not played out of this world with circus backhand wraparound shots going top corner on hot goalies.
Just out of curiosity, what got goalies?

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06-25-2013, 02:07 PM
  #50
Til the End of Time
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Originally Posted by #66 View Post
I wish that I could fight you on this but I just can't. It goes beyond Sid.

Malkins good every other year.

Neal came to the Pens and stops hitting.

Martin needs to be reminded to play like a man.

Letang and MAF have these huge gaps in their games and the same problems every year.

Iggy comes to the Pens and looks completely lost.

Cooke stops being Cooke.

The Pens win doing certain things and then change it up. Only to lose doing certain things and stay the same way.

A culture change is needed and needed ASAP. I downright loathe almost everything the Pens have turned into since that cup win.
agreed. the penguins are arrogant and overrated; simply not a very likable club right now.

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