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Bryz buyout - Miller to Flyers?

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Old
06-26-2013, 06:08 PM
  #301
DemsIsGirglingSounds
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Well, I said yesterday I'd start by asking for 11 in exchange for Miller and that was in response to the suggestion that the best we could do is Read and a second. Seems consensus moved a little towards me today. Always funny how the common wisdom can move in a day... I guess we'll see what actually happens.

I think Regier will ask for something like 11 and a prospect or just Couterier, but I doubt he gets exactly what he wants. Although... despite the fact that the common wisdom is Darcy should be chased out of Buffalo with torches and pitchforks, actual history shows that he will probably get good value for any trade he makes.

The question with Darcy has always been what does he do if he can't get what he wants, and that's a question we can't really answer because we simply don't know what offers he's had on his table over the years that he hasn't gone with. In this case he knows he can't let Miller walk for nothing, so I think he gets the best offer for Miller lined up by draft day, he goes to Ryan and asks if he wants to go to that team (whoever it may be) and at the same time makes him a contract offer to stay. Ryan then decides his own fate. If Miller is traded, you still hope to keep Vanek, but you start down the same road with him.

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06-26-2013, 06:26 PM
  #302
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Honestly I just don't see Philly as a fit for Miller.

The need is there, but per Holmgren's presser, the biggest issue was cap space. Obviously there was more to that than just cap space. However, if we were willing to retain cap space and take on at least one salary (likely on D), there may be a deal to be had.

A deal like:

To Buffalo: Mezaros, Read, 2nd round pick
To Philly: Miller (2 million retained)

Gives Buffalo the option to move a D to move up in the draft (an option they don't have now) and a potential trade deadline bargain chip if he doesn't work out.

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06-26-2013, 06:30 PM
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
Honestly I just don't see Philly as a fit for Miller.

The need is there, but per Holmgren's presser, the biggest issue was cap space. Obviously there was more to that than just cap space. However, if we were willing to retain cap space and take on at least one salary (likely on D), there may be a deal to be had.

A deal like:

To Buffalo: Mezaros, Read, 2nd round pick
To Philly: Miller (2 million retained)

Gives Buffalo the option to move a D to move up in the draft (an option they don't have now) and a potential trade deadline bargain chip if he doesn't work out.
What do Meszaros and Read add to the rebuild? I'll be very disappointed if we take anyone 25 or older. We're planning a process now, not trying to squeak into the playoffs next year.

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06-26-2013, 06:39 PM
  #304
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What I learned today from Sabres fans online:

HF board: Miller's worth maybe Matt Read or a 2nd round pick at best.

Twitter fans: Miller is worth Courturier, Coburn, 11, two of Briere's kids, and possibly (as Byrz would say it): THE UNIVERSE.

The truth likely lies somewhere in the middle. I think Miller could net the 11th and a decent prospect/decent roster player. Sure, he has one year left on his deal, but so did Pominville. Pommer had being a foward and the trade deadline in his favor, but if he could net four quality pieces, I'd think Miller could come away with two. Will he net Courturier? I don't see it happening. But Laughton...gimme.

Also, I know it's a deep draft, but let's stop talking about 11 like it's a top-3 pick. Teams part with first round picks for players all the time, especially picks outside the top 10.

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06-26-2013, 06:42 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
What do Meszaros and Read add to the rebuild? I'll be very disappointed if we take anyone 25 or older. We're planning a process now, not trying to squeak into the playoffs next year.
Both are transition players, Read could be more but they could use a defenseman for their second pair to mitigate the need to throw all the kids into the fire immediately.

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06-26-2013, 06:43 PM
  #306
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Every good post-rebuild team has supplementary veterans.

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06-26-2013, 06:44 PM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett4 View Post
What I learned today from Sabres fans online:

HF board: Miller's worth maybe Matt Read or a 2nd round pick at best.

Twitter fans: Miller is worth Courturier, Coburn, 11, two of Briere's kids, and possibly (as Byrz would say it): THE UNIVERSE.

The truth likely lies somewhere in the middle. I think Miller could net the 11th and a decent prospect/decent roster player. Sure, he has one year left on his deal, but so did Pominville. Pommer had being a foward and the trade deadline in his favor, but if he could net four quality pieces, I'd think Miller could come away with two. Will he net Courturier? I don't see it happening. But Laughton...gimme.

Also, I know it's a deep draft, but let's stop talking about 11 like it's a top-3 pick. Teams part with first round picks for players all the time, especially picks outside the top 10.
Pominville's contract gave them 2 playoff runs and this entire offseason to negotiate an extension. Not quite the same.

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06-26-2013, 06:47 PM
  #308
Rhett4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
Pominville's contract gave them 2 playoff runs and this entire offseason to negotiate an extension. Not quite the same.
I said there were differences, hence lowering the return significantly (but still not as low as some on this board think a Miller return would be). Goalies in general tend to fetch less value. While Miller won't net an All-Star return, he'll get a decent piece or two. He's not going to be swapped for Matt Read...

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06-26-2013, 06:48 PM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Both are transition players, Read could be more but they could use a defenseman for their second pair to mitigate the need to throw all the kids into the fire immediately.
Can't see trading away the best assets we have to give in order to get transition players. As far as I'm concerned, we don't have the core that we're transitioning to yet. We don't have the kids that they need to protect.

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06-26-2013, 06:59 PM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Can't see trading away the best assets we have to give in order to get transition players. As far as I'm concerned, we don't have the core that we're transitioning to yet. We don't have the kids that they need to protect.
Moving Miller will likely move them further down in the standings.

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06-26-2013, 07:01 PM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Can't see trading away the best assets we have to give in order to get transition players. As far as I'm concerned, we don't have the core that we're transitioning to yet. We don't have the kids that they need to protect.
#1 Miller is not even close to our best asset. Maybe he's one of the best assets we want to move, but he's certainly not our best asset.

#2 We have a lot of kids who will be in the line-up this season and next, I'm not sure what that means really.

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06-26-2013, 07:06 PM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
What do Meszaros and Read add to the rebuild? I'll be very disappointed if we take anyone 25 or older. We're planning a process now, not trying to squeak into the playoffs next year.
They don't. They ARE 2 potential trade deadline chips if the team continues it's downward trend. However, if they do ending meshing with Rolston, we would have first dibs at extending them.

It's about culture change. After moving out Pominville, Leopold, Regehr and now potentially Vanek and Miller, the Sabres do need some veteran presence. And given the fact that they don't want to hand out long term deals to UFAs, adding veterans via trades

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06-26-2013, 07:07 PM
  #313
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Miller will look great to some teams and average to others. But all you need is one team to really want him.

Thats why I fully believe we will get more than some think for Miller.

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06-26-2013, 08:39 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Josh Rimer, the guy with actual sources who broke the Miller/Flyers talks was just on WGR. Anybody want to talk about what he said the value would be? Anybody? Ok, I'll just tell you.

Rimer said it would have to start with the 11th overall pick, add a prospect like Couturier, maybe Read, and add another minor leaguer. But don't worry, you guys have it all figured out from behind your keyboards.
This post was so dramatic. I laughed when I read it.

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06-26-2013, 09:41 PM
  #315
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Unless he actually said Buffalo asked for X or demanded Y for Miller, then his assessment of "what it would take" is purely speculative.
Exactly the point I was making.

He can be right about the two teams talking, and yet be speculating about the specifics at the same time. And that speculation is worth about as much as mine is. Neither of us know, despite how many contacts he has in his phone.

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06-26-2013, 09:54 PM
  #316
Jame
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so...

Miller, 8th, 16th
for
Couturier, 11th

We'd probably all be happy with Lindholm/Monahan at 8... Couturier is better, already in the NHL... speeds up the rebuild.

Couturier is worth more than 8th

Miller and 16th for 11th... gets up a little higher to have a better choice of the 3rd tier (Risto, Zadarov, Horvat, etc)

I don't think Miller is worth the 11th
I think Couturier is worth more than the 8th
I think the 16th settles the difference

I think it's a fair offer for a very valuable asset (Couturier) and keeps us in great position in the 1st (11th)

It;s a homerun deal.

the best proposal I've ever made

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06-26-2013, 10:09 PM
  #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
so...

Miller, 8th, 16th
for
Couturier, 11th

We'd probably all be happy with Lindholm/Monahan at 8... Couturier is better, already in the NHL... speeds up the rebuild.

Couturier is worth more than 8th

Miller and 16th for 11th... gets up a little higher to have a better choice of the 3rd tier (Risto, Zadarov, Horvat, etc)

I don't think Miller is worth the 11th
I think Couturier is worth more than the 8th
I think the 16th settles the difference

I think it's a fair offer for a very valuable asset (Couturier) and keeps us in great position in the 1st (11th)

It;s a homerun deal.

the best proposal I've ever made
I'd say a 2nd rounder settles the difference. I'm not the fond of the deal.

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06-26-2013, 10:20 PM
  #318
matthew94
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I think I like Lindholm/Monahan SLIGHTLY better than Couturier. And there's a decent chance we could get one of them with the 8th pick... so I'm not sure he's worth the 8th pick to me... (though most other years he would be). Moving up 5 spots for Miller seems reasonable. It's probably a pretty decent deal.

I think I prefer something like Read & 11 for Miller & 38

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06-26-2013, 10:30 PM
  #319
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Outlandish prediction:

Miller gets traded to the Flyers
Briere signs with the Sabres

Buffalo fans repeatedly commend fing0rz for his awesome avatar

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06-26-2013, 10:32 PM
  #320
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthew94 View Post
I think I like Lindholm/Monahan SLIGHTLY better than Couturier. And there's a decent chance we could get one of them with the 8th pick... so I'm not sure he's worth the 8th pick to me... (though most other years he would be). Moving up 5 spots for Miller seems reasonable. It's probably a pretty decent deal.

I think I prefer something like Read & 11 for Miller & 38
draft year junior production
Monahan 78 pts in 58 games
Couturier 96 pts in 58 games

Couturier was considered an elite prospect that slipped because of a poor WJC

Couturier has 2 years NHL experience, including post season play where he shutdown the best players in the world as a teenager.

Im not sure how anyone could like Monahan more than Couturier... the statement leaves me in utter disbelief...

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06-26-2013, 10:40 PM
  #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
draft year junior production
Monahan 78 pts in 58 games
Couturier 96 pts in 58 games

Couturier was considered an elite prospect that slipped because of a poor WJC

Couturier has 2 years NHL experience, including post season play where he shutdown the best players in the world as a teenager.

Im not sure how anyone could like Monahan more than Couturier... the statement leaves me in utter disbelief...
it's not that unreasonable. in both of couturier's 90 point seasons, he had a teammate in the 90's as well. monahan led his team in scoring by almost 40.

i love couturier and think he should be target 1A prime right now, but Monahan might be just as good. we'll see. same with lindholm, who might be zetterberg 2.0.

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06-26-2013, 10:40 PM
  #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
draft year junior production
Monahan 78 pts in 58 games
Couturier 96 pts in 58 games

Couturier was considered an elite prospect that slipped because of a poor WJC

Couturier has 2 years NHL experience, including post season play where he shutdown the best players in the world as a teenager.

Im not sure how anyone could like Monahan more than Couturier... the statement leaves me in utter disbelief...
I don't claim to be an expert. I only know that Monahan was on a pretty terrible team. Perhaps if he played with some better players his numbers would have been higher. Plus, it's hard to compare stats from different years.

I've also been a little disappointed with Couturier's offensive production so far. I don't watch the Flyers close enough to know how well he 'shutdown' the best players in the world. But I know he was a minus player this year with a terrible faceoff winning percentage.

I'm sure part of my interest in #8 over Couturier is also due to my excitement for the unknown. I like draft picks. Personally, I want Ristolainen at #8.

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06-26-2013, 10:48 PM
  #323
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthew94 View Post
I don't claim to be an expert. I only know that Monahan was on a pretty terrible team. Perhaps if he played with some better players his numbers would have been higher. Plus, it's hard to compare stats from different years.

I've also been a little disappointed with Couturier's offensive production so far. I don't watch the Flyers close enough to know how well he 'shutdown' the best players in the world. But I know he was a minus player this year with a terrible faceoff winning percentage.

I'm sure part of my interest in #8 over Couturier is also due to my excitement for the unknown. I like draft picks. Personally, I want Ristolainen at #8.
you didn't watch the playoffs last year?

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06-26-2013, 10:52 PM
  #324
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Couturier played in the Q, which is the much poorer defensively league. Monahan played in the OHL which generally supplies the better players out of the 3 leagues.

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06-26-2013, 10:54 PM
  #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
so...

Miller, 8th, 16th
for
Couturier, 11th

We'd probably all be happy with Lindholm/Monahan at 8... Couturier is better, already in the NHL... speeds up the rebuild.

Couturier is worth more than 8th

Miller and 16th for 11th... gets up a little higher to have a better choice of the 3rd tier (Risto, Zadarov, Horvat, etc)

I don't think Miller is worth the 11th
I think Couturier is worth more than the 8th
I think the 16th settles the difference

I think it's a fair offer for a very valuable asset (Couturier) and keeps us in great position in the 1st (11th)

It;s a homerun deal.

the best proposal I've ever made
Throw in Stafford (please) and pay the bulk of Millers salary and maybe you have traction.

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