HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
Notices

Bryz buyout - Miller to Flyers?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-26-2013, 01:25 PM
  #201
stokes84
Registered User
 
stokes84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,111
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to stokes84
Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
...yes...
I didn't realize he was so accomplished...

stokes84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 01:25 PM
  #202
La Cosa Nostra
Caporegime
 
La Cosa Nostra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 10,653
vCash: 500
I am not moving from #8 unless its moving up , not down.

La Cosa Nostra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 01:26 PM
  #203
Top Pair Imposter
False Defenseman
 
Top Pair Imposter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Country: Ras al-Khaimah
Posts: 13,460
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
I didn't realize he was so accomplished...
Mackinnon isn't very accomplished either.

Top Pair Imposter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 01:27 PM
  #204
Paxon
⚔Z E M G U S⚔
 
Paxon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Laurel, MD
Country: United States
Posts: 25,588
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Wait, are you saying Couts is worth way more than that?
Yes. Couts was an 8th overall 2 drafts ago, an 8th overall who fell from a top 3 spot. Even if at worst he's done nothing to hurt his stock by playing in the NHL as an 18 and 19 year old, that'd be saying Miller + 2nd is worth the 8th overall pick. In most peoples' eyes if anything he's improved his stock by playing very well defensively against very good players (including against Malkin in the playoffs as a rookie).

Paxon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 01:29 PM
  #205
CaptPantalones
Registered User
 
CaptPantalones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,564
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabreality View Post
Sam Carchidi ‏@BroadStBull 7m
Homer says B. Schenn and Couturier are untouchable. #flyers

we can end the Couts pipedream...unless Homers lying.
Then I try miller and 16 for read and 11

CaptPantalones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 01:30 PM
  #206
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 46,059
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Read has performed over 150+ games. It's a lot easier to punch above your weight class for 26 games, as Flynn did--and I like Flynn.

And I'm still waiting for those RWers with 30 ES/SH goals over the past two seasons...
Not sure I buy that Flynn is punching above his weight class and Read is not.



Read was a 26 year old professional rookie last year. He was playing on a secondary offensive line behind the Giroux line last year. His primary linemates were Simmonds (40%), Briere (32.4%) and Voracek (21%). Philly was also the 6th highest scoring team 5 on 5 last year. So Read's ES production was not unique for his team last year. Obviously being with the talent he played with and in a secondary role also helped his production.

This season was more impressive since he got time with Giroux/Simmonds on the top line as well as Schenn/Couts. My concern is if he came here would he be able to put up similar numbers with a lesser offensive supporting cast.


As for Flynn, he did what he did in a mostly defensive role playing 90% of the time with Porter. Obviously someone thats no where near the level of the folks Read was with. His most common opponents were the likes of St. Louis, Stamkos, Tavares and Malkin. Yet he led the forwards playing 20+gms in goals against/60min (1.46) as well as shots against/60mins (24.1). Flynn was also 3rd in goals for/60mins among forwards.

Flynn produced at roughly the same pace as Read with less ice time and with far weaker linemates in a primarily defensive role. Something that Read did for only part of the season (the defensive role that is).

joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 01:30 PM
  #207
stokes84
Registered User
 
stokes84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,111
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to stokes84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason View Post
Mackinnon isn't very accomplished either.
You know who is accomplished? Ryan Miller.

There is a lot of massive over-valuations of other teams players and massive under-valuations of our own players around here.

stokes84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 01:32 PM
  #208
1972
"Craigs on it"
 
1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,383
vCash: 500
My guess is that Buffalo would want Coburn in return. We have alot of youth breaking in the next couple of years, Buffalo should be looking at surrounding those guys with quality players

1972 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 01:33 PM
  #209
struckbyaparkedcar
Zemgus Da Gawd
 
struckbyaparkedcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Country: Cote DIvoire
Posts: 15,534
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
You know who is accomplished? Ryan Miller.
Adorable.

Those 3+ year old accomplishments are worth how much on the market, again?

struckbyaparkedcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 01:34 PM
  #210
Top Pair Imposter
False Defenseman
 
Top Pair Imposter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Country: Ras al-Khaimah
Posts: 13,460
vCash: 500
I'm surprised we couldn't trade off Leo for Pietrangelo with all he's accomplished.

Top Pair Imposter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 01:34 PM
  #211
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,328
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
You know who is accomplished? Ryan Miller.
Trades are about future value. You don't trade for what they did on their last team.

haseoke39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 01:36 PM
  #212
stokes84
Registered User
 
stokes84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,111
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to stokes84
Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Adorable.

Those 3+ year old accomplishments are worth how much on the market, again?
Looking forward to finding out. Aren't you?

stokes84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 01:37 PM
  #213
Paxon
⚔Z E M G U S⚔
 
Paxon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Laurel, MD
Country: United States
Posts: 25,588
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
You know who is accomplished? Ryan Miller.

There is a lot of massive over-valuations of other teams players and massive under-valuations of our own players around here.
Thanks for pointing out in this swap of a veteran on an expiring contract for a young star on the rise one is Accomplished and the other is not Accomplished.

Paxon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 01:44 PM
  #214
stokes84
Registered User
 
stokes84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,111
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to stokes84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
Thanks for pointing out in this swap of a veteran on an expiring contract for a young star on the rise one is Accomplished and the other is not Accomplished.
Or a swap of a top 5 goaltender and NHL superstar for a kid who may never amount to much. It's funny how perception can change things, huh?

stokes84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 01:44 PM
  #215
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 44,700
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
You know who is accomplished? Ryan Miller.

There is a lot of massive over-valuations of other teams players and massive under-valuations of our own players around here.
It's quite the opposite actually

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 01:46 PM
  #216
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 44,700
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason View Post
I'm surprised we couldn't trade off Leo for Pietrangelo with all he's accomplished.
I'm sure stokes would trade Ennis for Marty St Louis... because... you know, accomplishments and all. Contract years aren't important or anything...

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 01:50 PM
  #217
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,328
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Looking forward to finding out. Aren't you?
I mean, I think Miller's worth at least a top prospect, but at this point, Couturier is more than a top prospect. He's already shown he can make the transition. The risk is almost gone on him. He's a young center who's already been put into the role of shutting down the league's elite forwards. Over the next ten years, this guy is very likely to be a key piece on a contender. His trade value is very high.

When I say Miller should get us a top flight prospect, I mean a guy who's more of a dice roll at this point, either a pick or someone in the 19-20 range who hasn't solidified his role on an NHL team, like a Strome or something. I think (unless you subscribe to the belief that goalies aren't real) that his value is a top ten 'tender in the league at the late end of his prime, but worth it if you think you can re-sign him and are looking at a 4-5 year window. But Couturier is going to do a lot more for your team over the next ten than Miller will, if you even think you can keep him.

haseoke39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 01:51 PM
  #218
Paxon
⚔Z E M G U S⚔
 
Paxon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Laurel, MD
Country: United States
Posts: 25,588
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Or a swap of a top 5 goaltender and NHL superstar for a kid who may never amount to much. It's funny how perception can change things, huh?
Good luck arguing that he's definitely a top 5 goaltender. Doesn't matter if he is though, because he is 33 and only has 1 year on his contract. Whoever trades for him is renting him for a year. A kid who may never amount to much... you could say that about any draft pick or prospect in a trade, except in most cases it'd be more fair to say than it would be for Couturier. Couturier has an extremely high juniors pedigree and has already had a very good start to his NHL career as an 18+19 year old.

Are you one of the people who want to give up a ton for MacKinnon?

Paxon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 01:51 PM
  #219
Jim Bob
I like Big Botts
 
Jim Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 23,979
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
...yes...
Couturier is interesting. He's very Myers-esque without the big contract in that he didn't have a great season.

It will be interesting to see what the Flyers see as his trade value and how much they value Miller, if they are interested in him at all.

Although, Miller + 2nd for Couturier might be enough for the Flyers if they are still goalie crazy like they have been in the past....

Jim Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 01:53 PM
  #220
struckbyaparkedcar
Zemgus Da Gawd
 
struckbyaparkedcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Country: Cote DIvoire
Posts: 15,534
vCash: 500
Evidence of both hiveminds is scattered across this forum. What's way worse is arguing that only one of them exists.

struckbyaparkedcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 01:53 PM
  #221
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,328
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Or a swap of a top 5 goaltender and NHL superstar for a kid who may never amount to much. It's funny how perception can change things, huh?
Yeah, but that's pretty much just lying at that point.

haseoke39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 02:01 PM
  #222
Sabresfansince1980
Registered User
 
Sabresfansince1980's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: from Wheatfield, NY
Country: Germany
Posts: 5,814
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegomyLeggio View Post
Couturier is interesting. He's very Myers-esque without the big contract in that he didn't have a great season.

It will be interesting to see what the Flyers see as his trade value and how much they value Miller, if they are interested in him at all.

Although, Miller + 2nd for Couturier might be enough for the Flyers if they are still goalie crazy like they have been in the past....
If Philly really wants Miller, but Couturier is indeed off-limits, I could see Miller + 2nd for #11.

Sabresfansince1980 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 02:03 PM
  #223
stokes84
Registered User
 
stokes84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,111
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to stokes84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
Good luck arguing that he's definitely a top 5 goaltender. Doesn't matter if he is though, because he is 33 and only has 1 year on his contract. Whoever trades for him is renting him for a year. A kid who may never amount to much... you could say that about any draft pick or prospect in a trade, except in most cases it'd be more fair to say than it would be for Couturier. Couturier has an extremely high juniors pedigree and has already had a very good start to his NHL career as an 18+19 year old.

Are you one of the people who want to give up a ton for MacKinnon?
Yes, but MacKinnon is going to be a franchise defining player and Couts is going to be a glorified 3rd liner.

stokes84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 02:04 PM
  #224
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,328
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
If Philly really wants Miller, but Couturier is indeed off-limits, I could see Miller + 2nd for #11.
I've been pushing for this trade as well.

I think any Philly trade should be pursued with the goal of adding either Couturier or #11. You will have to add for both. I don't really have a lot of interest in Read.

haseoke39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2013, 02:06 PM
  #225
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,328
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Yes, but MacKinnon is going to be a franchise defining player and Couts is going to be a glorified 3rd liner.
If he's a third liner who can shut down Malkin and Ovechkin over the next decade, then he pretty well helps define the franchise as well.

haseoke39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:13 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.