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In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) XXXIX

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06-26-2013, 01:31 PM
  #176
ABasin
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Originally Posted by Ice Crusher View Post
Even, I would give a chance to a guy like Elliott. Maybe, hasn't panned out last season but I liked what I saw from him 2 seasons ago. Wilson is a top-4D but injuries has taken him off the lineup the past 2 seasons. What we need is a top-2D. Siemens is also a long reach but if he has a good camp, I would rather see him on our team than a guy like Scuderi or Ference.
Elliott has excellent puck skills - in the offensive zone. Aside from a few games at the end of last season, Elliott's defense has been nothing short of awful on NHL ice. Just train-wreck awful. Worse than Hunwick, worse than Zanon. Yes, I said Zanon.

Now, he's still quite young, so that criticism comes with a big asterisk. His offensive potential is very nice. But he has a very long way to go defensively.

I'm hoping for a full year of 1st pairing, 25 min/night in Erie for Elliott this upcoming season. I'd really rather not see him in Denver. Give him lots of minutes, let him grow.

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06-26-2013, 01:32 PM
  #177
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Plenty? We have exactly two (three, if Barrie can handle the defense), but two are going to have to play a 1-2 role.

I still maintain that Hejda-EJ should be the 1st pairing, if the Avs pick up no new defensemen. They're the two best on the team. Play them together.
I agree. They are forced to play the top pairing leaving our 2nd pairing with depth guys.

There is no way we should turn down a top 4 d-man if one is available.

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Old
06-26-2013, 01:33 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
Elliott has excellent puck skills - in the offensive zone. Aside from a few games at the end of last season, Elliott's defense has been nothing short of awful on NHL ice. Just train-wreck awful. Worse than Hunwick, worse than Zanon. Yes, I said Zanon.

Now, he's still quite young, so that criticism comes with a big asterisk. His offensive potential is very nice. But he has a very long way to go defensively.

I'm hoping for a full year of 1st pairing, 25 min/night in Erie for Elliott this upcoming season.
He was better defensively 2 seasons ago. Last season, was just a bad season for him because of the injury.

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06-26-2013, 01:35 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Ice Crusher View Post
We have plenty of D that can play a 3-4 role. Getting another D with the same talent isn't the answer for our D's problem.
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
EJ, Hejda, Barrie.... can't think of anybody else.
That's plenty, since O'Brien, Wilson, and Elliott can play a 5/6 role.

Getting a 1/2/3 guy with some offense to push all of them down the depth chart is the move they need to be making.

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06-26-2013, 01:36 PM
  #180
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He was better defensively 2 seasons ago. Last season, was just a bad season for him because of the injury.
I don't agree. Two seasons ago, he had the same defensive zone positional issues, he had the same aversion to physical contact issues, but in addition, he consistently rushed the puck up the ice into very dangerous areas of the ice. I saw him do less of that this past season, but the other defensive zone issues were still there in spades.

Unless something has drastically changed over the Summer, he's not ready. Defensively.

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06-26-2013, 01:41 PM
  #181
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Yes, but they are pushed to the top pairing, since we don't have anybody else. And then we are stuck with depth guys like Zanon and SOB to play the #3 and #4 role.

Of course we would all prefer to add a top 2 defenseman. But it's not like it would hurt to add a defenseman who is better than the majority of d-man we already have here.

Would you, for instance, pass on Johnny Boychuk if he was handed to you for free? Just because he isn't a top 2 defenseman?
Really don't see how you could bring up Boychuk to justify the reasoning behind going after Ference. Johnny fits with this team much better than Ference does thanks to his age and skill set.

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06-26-2013, 01:41 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
That's plenty, since O'Brien, Wilson, and Elliott can play a 5/6 role.

Getting a 1/2/3 guy with some offense to push all of them down the depth chart is the move they need to be making.
Totally this.

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06-26-2013, 01:44 PM
  #183
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I don't agree with you about Elliott not being ready. I'm pretty confident that Elliott wasn't his best because of his injury last season. He was better 2 seasons ago. He will crack the lineup next season. I'd rather give a chance to our young D instead of paying for Ference or Scuderi.
As long as you are okay with another top 5 pick, that is a solid plan.

The Avs need at least 4 top 4 capable defensemen to start the season. Right now there are ~3. If a 1/2 can't be had, they at least have to get a 3/4. Saying it is 1/2 or nothing at all is not the way to look at it. Set your sights for a top 2, but if you have to settle and get a #3 like Hainsey, you absolutely do that.

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06-26-2013, 01:50 PM
  #184
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Really don't see how you could bring up Boychuk to justify the reasoning behind going after Ference. Johnny fits with this team much better than Ference does thanks to his age and skill set.
It was about his "a top 2 defenseman or no defenseman at all" argument.

I don't see why should turn down a top 4 d-man just cause we are in a bigger need for a top 2.

And yes, I understand that you don't think of Ference as a top 4 d.

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06-26-2013, 01:52 PM
  #185
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By my estimates, as many as 18 NHL teams NOT likely to partake in compliance buyouts. Other 12 range from "for sure" to "thinking about it."

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06-26-2013, 01:52 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
That's plenty, since O'Brien, Wilson, and Elliott can play a 5/6 role.

Getting a 1/2/3 guy with some offense to push all of them down the depth chart is the move they need to be making.
But a very difficult move to make. Unless that Stastny for Phanuef talk actually is realistic.

The second best thing would be to stock up on top 4 defenseman.

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06-26-2013, 01:55 PM
  #187
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Kings and Bruins got Scuderi and Ference at the right time. Avs getting them now would probably not be the right time, even if it provides a short term upgrade.

I'd rather Avs identify 28-30 year old players than 34 year old ones.

Also

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Chiarelli said B's would like Nathan Horton back. 18 looking for 5-6 yr deal in $6M range. May take less to stay w/Bs

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06-26-2013, 01:59 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Ice Crusher View Post
We have plenty of D that can play a 3-4 role. Getting another D with the same talent isn't the answer for our D's problem.
That's not true at all. We only have 2 guys that are proven legit Top 4 guys on our team. And they're Hejda and EJ.

Barrie, we hope will play like a Top 4 Dman next year. But its no guarantee. He might have just had a hot stretch last year.

Its completely unreasonable to expect Elliott to be a Top 4 guy for us next year, he should be in the AHL again.


And Wilson, while yes he is a #3/4 guy when he's healthy, he hasn't been all that healthy lately.


We only have 2 Top 4 Dmen for sure next season, and 1 hopeful in Barrie. We absolutely need another Top 4 guy. Otherwise were going to see Zanon, Obrien, or Hunwick playing Top 4 minutes again. Obviously the ideal pick up would be a Top 2 guy, but there aren't any available to us right now(Other then maybe Phaneuf), and it would cost a lot to acquire a young one.

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06-26-2013, 02:00 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Kings and Bruins got Scuderi and Ference at the right time. Avs getting them now would probably not be the right time, even if it provides a short term upgrade.

I'd rather Avs identify 28-30 year old players than 34 year old ones.

Also
For free agents there just isn't much out there in the 28-30 range. Clitsome (not top 4, but close), White (looked terrible this season, but maybe still top 4), and Whitney (top pairing when fully healthy, which is never).

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06-26-2013, 02:07 PM
  #190
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Scuderi is significantly better than Ference, I really fail to understand where is this sudden fascination with Ference coming from.
he's better than half our defensemen. other than that... no reason.

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06-26-2013, 02:07 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
For free agents there just isn't much out there in the 28-30 range. Clitsome (not top 4, but close), White (looked terrible this season, but maybe still top 4), and Whitney (top pairing when fully healthy, which is never).
I almost hope the Avs go after Whitney, especially if they can get him on a one year or two year deal for cheap. He has the highest upside of the remaining free agents, and I think there's a chance he can turn it around.

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06-26-2013, 02:09 PM
  #192
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Not a fan of Horton, but I wouldn't mind adding him to our roster.

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06-26-2013, 02:16 PM
  #193
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I almost hope the Avs go after Whitney, especially if they can get him on a one year or two year deal for cheap. He has the highest upside of the remaining free agents, and I think there's a chance he can turn it around.
I think he would be a good fit. Rather have him than anyone else in the UFA.

Another option is Dan Boyle. He's old but still would be in the top-2D spot on our team, becomes UFA next season and SJ is shopping him right now. Plus, Barrie, Elliott aren't ready to take upon a top-2 role on our team.

Johnson-Boyle or Whitney
Barrie-Hejda
Wilson-Elliott O'Brien Hunwick Zanon

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06-26-2013, 02:16 PM
  #194
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Horton seems too injury prone. I'd gladly take either Ference or Scuderi though.

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06-26-2013, 02:17 PM
  #195
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Not a fan of Horton, but I wouldn't mind adding him to our roster.
i'm a big fan of Horton. he would add size and skill to our line up. sure he carries injury risk but i'd take that.

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06-26-2013, 02:30 PM
  #196
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06-26-2013, 02:36 PM
  #197
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But a very difficult move to make. Unless that Stastny for Phanuef talk actually is realistic.

The second best thing would be to stock up on top 4 defenseman.
Depending on who they want, and if they settle on their PLan A, B, or C it could be difficult, and they may have to give up some good pieces.

But this is something they HAVE to do, especially since it looks like they won't draft Jones. If they had drafted Jones, they could have got by with adding just one low scoring two way, or defensive guy, but now they have to be a bit more bold.

They need a presence on the backend to balance things out and alleviate the pressure on the other D, and that won't come from just adding another regular 3/4 guy.

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06-26-2013, 02:43 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Kings and Bruins got Scuderi and Ference at the right time. Avs getting them now would probably not be the right time, even if it provides a short term upgrade.

I'd rather Avs identify 28-30 year old players than 34 year old ones.
Yes, please.

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06-26-2013, 02:54 PM
  #199
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Kings and Bruins got Scuderi and Ference at the right time. Avs getting them now would probably not be the right time, even if it provides a short term upgrade.

I'd rather Avs identify 28-30 year old players than 34 year old ones.

Also
That's the problem, there's not that many available and If there are, they would cost too much. So.. What to do what to do. We need to get someone that's for sure. We can't go to next season with same defense group. It's just ****ing horrible. The worst in NHL by far.

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That means David Jones can rest easy for the time being.
More whiskey. Yeaaah.

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06-26-2013, 02:56 PM
  #200
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