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Is Toews a lock for the HOF

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06-26-2013, 04:43 PM
  #101
tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Waters View Post
My point is: Toews can't afford such a drop off because his PPG is not anywhere near guys like Jagr/Selanne (even Modano, Recchi and Roenick have more points, but that is partly due to the era they played in) and some of the other guys are really debatable when it comes to HOF consideration (but don't have a Selke or Conn Smythe, I give Toews that).
Let's put it like this: Toews needs to play something in the neighbourhood of 1100+ games, probably closer to 1200. I'm not saying it is not possible - I'm just saying there are a lot of ifs and that currently there are a lot of players who are way more certain than he is.
I agree. Toews isn't a lock or anything like that, he still needs a lot of things to go right before he's in the non-hypothetical conversation.

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06-26-2013, 04:45 PM
  #102
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It's funny to see the "Jonathan Toews has four goals in his last 41 playoff games" thread just below this one.

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06-26-2013, 04:45 PM
  #103
Brent Burns
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Lock is too wrong a word

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06-26-2013, 04:46 PM
  #104
Faidh ar Rud Eigin
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No but if he continues to play like he has he'll get in ala Nieuwendyk.

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06-26-2013, 04:47 PM
  #105
Leidi J
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Not even close to a 'lock'. Can't predict what he'll do in the future. Right now, he is not a hall of famer.

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06-26-2013, 04:49 PM
  #106
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He's in the same position as Drew Doughty

too early to call, but unless his play takes a steep decline, he SHOULD produce results that would put him in the hall of fame.

So not a lock.

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06-26-2013, 05:21 PM
  #107
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I like the post that said he should be a shoo-in by the time he is 30. I agree with this sentiment completely. In a 30 team league he has captained a Cup winning team twice in 4 years. We all talk about the Red Wings of the 1990s with 3 Cups in 6 years so let's see if Chicago can duplicate that. It wouldn't shock me.

Toews will get in on the basis of how Dave Keon got in. Keon was a player everyone knew - and still knows - was far superior to what his stats tell us. Toews will likely never crack 100 points in a season, but he doesn't need to. His all around play is where his worth comes. Not to mention his timely goals. Give me a 70 point guy who scores at the right time over a 100+ point guy who frequently takes games off.

This Hawks team is going to have Toews, Kane, Hossa and Keith at the bare minimum in the HHOF in my opinion. Seabrook will have a Kevin Lowe-esque type of career where some would want him in and if Crawford would string together more performances in the postseason like what we saw then eventually he would have to be considered. (Note: I do realize Crawford is light years away from ever being in the conversation but I am just looking at the maximum of Hawks I think could ever get in, and that would be 6)

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06-26-2013, 05:26 PM
  #108
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he needs some better offensive years for sure

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06-26-2013, 05:40 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
he needs some better offensive years for sure
Personally I don't think he does. Not with the way the rest of his career is going. The reason I always bring the name up of Dave Keon is because they are similar. Keon - like Toews - has a career high of 76 points. He was a big part - if not the biggest piece of Toronto's Cup wins. He won a Conn Smythe. Somewhere along the lines he has to win a Selke if it existed back then. But either way his value legitimately goes further than the stat sheets tend to show.

Toews is the same way. No one can come up with an argument as to why Keon shouldn't be in the HHOF because they saw him play. Toews is the same way. He isn't Crosby, just like Keon was never Hull or Howe, but no one in the game today would deny Toews is anything but a star player.

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06-26-2013, 05:41 PM
  #110
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If 90 percent of this forum thinks Datsyuk isn't a lock, Toews is certainly not.

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06-26-2013, 05:59 PM
  #111
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Is Brind'Amour going to be in the Hall of Fame? I think they will end up with similar stats and awards, and that Brind'Amour will be in.

But no, Toew's is not a lock. What would happen if he averaged 50-60 points for the rest of his career, something that isn't likely but very well could happen.

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06-26-2013, 06:02 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Here are Toews' career numbers to date:

408GP
167-205-372
0.41GPG
0.91PPG

Assuming decent health in his career, he will likely play something like 1300 games when it's all said and done.

Let's assume that, due to age, he eventually drops to .035GPG and 0.85PPG for his career. That would project out to about 450 goals and about 1100 points. You can adjust those numbers however you like, depending on how you speculate his career will look.

To me, a guy who is over 400 goals and 1000 points and has a Selke and captained two Cups is easily HOF material. The only thing that would stop him would be injury or a major slowdown in his scoring pace.
That looks really similar to Rod Brind'Amour's resume, though Brindy only has the one Cup.

1,484GP, 452G, 732A, 1,184P. 2 Selkes. Captained a cup winner.

He's considered to be borderline, but with a realistic shot at making it. Certainly not easily in.

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06-26-2013, 06:47 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptKirk View Post
That looks really similar to Rod Brind'Amour's resume, though Brindy only has the one Cup.

1,484GP, 452G, 732A, 1,184P. 2 Selkes. Captained a cup winner.

He's considered to be borderline, but with a realistic shot at making it. Certainly not easily in.
older fans can correct me if im wrong but brindy was not a #1 c the moment he hit nhl ice like toews waa

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06-26-2013, 07:29 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by CptKirk View Post
That looks really similar to Rod Brind'Amour's resume, though Brindy only has the one Cup.

1,484GP, 452G, 732A, 1,184P. 2 Selkes. Captained a cup winner.

He's considered to be borderline, but with a realistic shot at making it. Certainly not easily in.
Brind'Amour stacked up a lot of points before the DPE, though, and while he was considered "good" defensively, he wasn't considered a high-level defensive player until pretty late in his career and often didn't show up in Selke voting at all.

This comparison is in many ways as ridiculous as the "Brind'Amour=Fedorov" comparisons.

Brind'Amour is a guy who got a lot more credit defensively after he stopped being effective offensively, and IMHO got two "career" Selkes.

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06-26-2013, 07:41 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by bigsharksfan View Post
older fans can correct me if im wrong but brindy was not a #1 c the moment he hit nhl ice like toews waa
Brind'amour spent the majority of his career as #2 center behind guys like Lindros and Francis.

Brind'amour was also never MVP of the playoffs or Olympics, nor was he ever top 5 in Hart voting like Toews was last season.

I expect that by the time all and said and done, Toews will have a significantly better career than Brind'amour.

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06-26-2013, 08:54 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by bigsharksfan View Post
older fans can correct me if im wrong but brindy was not a #1 c the moment he hit nhl ice like toews waa
That's because Adam Oates was the 100+ pt a season #1 C in St Louis when Rod was a rookie...says more about the Hawks roster at the time to me than it does anything about Rod....

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06-26-2013, 10:12 PM
  #117
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Well if he keeps playing good I say yes if he goes down hill then things change but you never know.

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06-26-2013, 10:15 PM
  #118
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I love Toews but hold your horses.

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06-26-2013, 10:16 PM
  #119
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
That's because Adam Oates was the 100+ pt a season #1 C in St Louis when Rod was a rookie...says more about the Hawks roster at the time to me than it does anything about Rod....
Yes, but Brind'amour was never as highly though of as Toews. Brind'amour was the kind of guy where if he was your best scoring center, you probably didn't have a very good offense, but he was the ideal two-way center second line center. To give a modern comparison, I think Patrice Bergeron is a more similar calibre of player to Brind'amour (though young Brind'amour was a bit better offensively and not quite as good defensively as Bergeron).

I don't think there is any question Toews is high end #1 center.

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06-26-2013, 10:32 PM
  #120
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No but this is



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Old
06-27-2013, 05:44 AM
  #121
Bubba88
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if he finishes his career with another 8 years playing and a 0.5 ppg in those years (80 games played)

he will get into the HoF

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