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Roberto Luongo (part 2)

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Old
06-25-2013, 07:51 PM
  #1
MiamiScreamingEagles
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Roberto Luongo (part 2)

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1445681

The last thread exceeded 1,000 posts.

This thread is available for commentary.

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06-25-2013, 07:54 PM
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Vankiller Whale
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No matter what you say you cannot sell that BS to any GM in the league. There's a reason why Lu is still on the Canucks no matter how much you deny it.
I guess we'll see then when Luongo isn't bought out. You're calling it BS but haven't explained why.

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06-25-2013, 08:01 PM
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Damaged Goods
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PS are biased by workload, but ES SV% has a deficiency in completely ignoring workload. It's not by mistake that goalies have higher workloads when they are at their physical peak and playing at prime levels. Playing more games is also more difficult, more valuable and leaves more opportunity for regression.

There's also the "since 2010" skew issue because 2010-2011 was a much better campaign than his last two.

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06-25-2013, 08:02 PM
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Damaged Goods
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I guess we'll see then when Luongo isn't bought out. You're calling it BS but haven't explained why.
I don't think that's the right standard. His claim wouldn't be disproven until another GM trades for the contract.

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06-25-2013, 08:04 PM
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Sergei Berezin
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So I stopped following this guy a while ago, but any rumours out there that he's headed to Philly?

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06-25-2013, 08:05 PM
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Vankiller Whale
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I don't think that's the right standard. His claim wouldn't be disproven until another GM trades for the contract.
Well if Luongo isn't bought out, and he isn't traded, then that means we'll have traded Schneider. Which I think is very unlikely. Although I wouldn't be upset. No more than Hawks fans with Hossa or Devils fans with Kovalchuk.

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06-25-2013, 08:10 PM
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Just for fun, who on the Flyers would be available for Schneider? Couturier? Simmonds? Anyone else I think would either have too much value or too little. Maybe the 11th overall?

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06-25-2013, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Sergei Berezin View Post
So I stopped following this guy a while ago, but any rumours out there that he's headed to Philly?
Paul Holmgren was asked about Luongo today. His response was something like, "a Luongo trade is possible, but I don't see how I can make it work." Interpret that however you will.

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06-25-2013, 08:20 PM
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Based on what was said on TSN, Philly doesn't really want Luongo or Miller, they wanted a "cheaper" option like Emery to stabilize Mason.

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06-25-2013, 08:26 PM
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To Boston for peverly

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06-25-2013, 08:27 PM
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silly season on twitter on this subject

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06-25-2013, 08:30 PM
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Luongo trade option: "Roberto Luongo can be traded to a cap floor team."

Historically, for example, the Florida Panthers have exceeded the cap floor each year, sometimes by a fairly large amount.

2009-2010 - The Florida Panthers spent approx. 12.5 million over the cap floor.

2010-2011 - The Florida Panthers spent approx. 3.2 million over the cap floor.

2011-2012 - The Florida Panthers spent approx. 7.1 million over the cap floor.

2012-2013 - The Florida Panthers spent approx. 3.1 million over the cap floor.

In addition, they have been pretty abysmal in that time aside from one season. With that being said it seems to me that they are also an organization that is going to be serious about competing more seriously from here on out. If you do the math and look at New Jersey, The New York Islanders, Columbus Blue Jackets, etc. I'm sure you'll find similar numbers.

So how does eating up a contract spot and 5+ million on their cap for a player who no longer provides an impact to their team really help?

Are we to assume there are just going to be teams who will never make a serious push on their cap and they exist as a vessel for contracts like this? From teams who tried to cheat the system and now can't keep their own cap in order?

I don't buy it.

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06-25-2013, 08:30 PM
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Here is a summary of PH's comments:

http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-phil...ext-net-flyers



Recall, Holmgren likes to make deals in advance of the NHL Draft to corner the market, so to speak, without competition.

“I don’t see how that would work,” he said of Luongo. “Probably not an option. That’s not one of my ideas.”

What if Luongo is bought out?

“Who knows?" Holmgren replied. "I can’t speculate on other teams’ business.”

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06-25-2013, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Well if Luongo isn't bought out, and he isn't traded, then that means we'll have traded Schneider. Which I think is very unlikely. Although I wouldn't be upset. No more than Hawks fans with Hossa or Devils fans with Kovalchuk.
I don't think other GMs are going to entertain Luongo proposals until the buyout period ends, so Vancouver is going to have to take the first step. Frankly, I think they should buy him out while they can. Don't want to be stuck in a pickle with no way out.

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06-25-2013, 08:36 PM
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There's no way Philly takes on that contract after the whole Bryzgalov ordeal.

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06-25-2013, 08:41 PM
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Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
Luongo trade option: "Roberto Luongo can be traded to a cap floor team."

Historically, for example, the Florida Panthers have exceeded the cap floor each year, sometimes by a fairly large amount.

2009-2010 - The Florida Panthers spent approx. 12.5 million over the cap floor.

2010-2011 - The Florida Panthers spent approx. 3.2 million over the cap floor.

2011-2012 - The Florida Panthers spent approx. 7.1 million over the cap floor.

2012-2013 - The Florida Panthers spent approx. 3.1 million over the cap floor.

In addition, they have been pretty abysmal in that time aside from one season. With that being said it seems to me that they are also an organization that is going to be serious about competing more seriously from here on out. If you do the math and look at New Jersey, The New York Islanders, Columbus Blue Jackets, etc. I'm sure you'll find similar numbers.

So how does eating up a contract spot and 5+ million on their cap for a player who no longer provides an impact to their team really help?

Are we to assume there are just going to be teams who will never make a serious push on their cap and they exist as a vessel for contracts like this? From teams who tried to cheat the system and now can't keep their own cap in order?

I don't buy it.
Same reason why Florida keeps players like Jovanovski on the roster. Despite being a 3rd pairing defenseman at this point in his career, They still have to keep him in order to reach the cap floor. If they could drop a contract like Jovanovski and replace his cap hit with a player only making 1m in actual salary, I think they would jump all over it.

Not to mention Luongo finishing his career in Florida might be a sentimental thing that would appeal to the fanbase.

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06-25-2013, 08:44 PM
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To Boston for peverly
HURRR DURRR! cause that makes sense for Boston?

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06-25-2013, 08:48 PM
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To Florida for Kopecky+2 nd.

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06-25-2013, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Phenomenon13 View Post
Based on what was said on TSN, Philly doesn't really want Luongo or Miller, they wanted a "cheaper" option like Emery to stabilize Mason.
Not saying Luongo is the answer or anything, but Emery, really?

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06-25-2013, 08:49 PM
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marty111
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Same reason why Florida keeps players like Jovanovski on the roster. Despite being a 3rd pairing defenseman at this point in his career, They still have to keep him in order to reach the cap floor. If they could drop a contract like Jovanovski and replace his cap hit with a player only making 1m in actual salary, I think they would jump all over it.

Not to mention Luongo finishing his career in Florida might be a sentimental thing that would appeal to the fanbase.
How come being a balanced competitive team over the cap floor isn't an option for them?

Why do they just have to have under-performing players to meet the cap floor?

I don't buy it. No GM is aiming for that and of course it's not a forgone conclusion that, that option will be available.

I think it's weird sh*tting on other franchises.

"Well you know such and such is a terrible franchise and they have no money so they'll take on a bad contract because their broke. They have no intentions on seriously competing ever so the option is there."

Yeah I'm real sure that's what Tallon is working on right now.

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06-25-2013, 08:53 PM
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Vankiller Whale
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How come being a balanced competitive team over the cap floor isn't an option for them?

Why do they just have to have under-performing players to meet the cap floor?

I don't buy it. No GM is aiming for that and of course it's not a forgone conclusion that, that option will be available.

I think it's weird sh*tting on other franchises.

"Well you know such and such is a terrible franchise and they have no money so they'll take on a bad contract because their broke. They have no intentions on seriously competing ever so the option is there."

Yeah I'm real sure that's what Tallon is working on right now.
As nice as it is to be optimistic that every team will spend to the cap within a few years, reality bites.

I think we can be fairly certain that there will still be cap floor teams in 5 years time.

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06-25-2013, 08:57 PM
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As nice as it is to be optimistic that every team will spend to the cap within a few years, reality bites.

I think we can be fairly certain that there will still be cap floor teams in 5 years time.
You're skipping the point, or ignoring it.

Why do cap floor teams have to take on under-performing players?

Simple question. Historically the Panthers have spent over the floor anyway.

It's a lame option if you as me.

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06-25-2013, 09:06 PM
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You're skipping the point, or ignoring it.

Why do cap floor teams have to take on under-performing players?

Simple question. Historically the Panthers have spent over the floor anyway.

It's a lame option if you as me.
They're taking the players because they have a high cap hit and a low salary, meaning it costs less money out of the owners pocket to reach the cap floor.

To Florida, it's not paying 5.3m for a backup, as the cap hit is immaterial. It's paying 1m in actual salary for a backup goaltender who was also has sentimental value as one of the greatest players in their franchise history.

And this is all only if Luongo doesn't want to retire or can't be LTIRed anyways.

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06-25-2013, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
You're skipping the point, or ignoring it.

Why do cap floor teams have to take on under-performing players?

Simple question. Historically the Panthers have spent over the floor anyway.

It's a lame option if you as me.
Cap floor teams have to take on risky contracts as most players don't want to go there. If Luongo really wants to go to Florida which he does then he will probably play his heart out for them.

The sad reality is convincing players to go there usually takes extra $$$ hence why Jovo, Upshall, Kopecky etc etc are all overpaid.

They aren't necessarily under-performing players but they don't perform to their contract level.

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06-25-2013, 09:22 PM
  #25
marty111
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
They're taking the players because they have a high cap hit and a low salary, meaning it costs less money out of the owners pocket to reach the cap floor.

To Florida, it's not paying 5.3m for a backup, as the cap hit is immaterial. It's paying 1m in actual salary for a backup goaltender who was also has sentimental value as one of the greatest players in their franchise history.

And this is all only if Luongo doesn't want to retire or can't be LTIRed anyways.
Okay, you're just missing the point then.

They already spend 3-12M over the cap floor. So essentially, since they are the Florida Panthers they should cut back their salary by 4M to keep Luongo as their backup in a couple years. This significantly handicaps their opportunity to be competitive.

But who cares, it's Florida right?

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