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McDonagh and the 1st overall

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Old
06-25-2013, 05:54 PM
  #26
Lonewolfe2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tucker3434 View Post
I'd like to have McDonagh, but not at the cost of MacKinnon.
Agreed to a certain extent, but I'd entertain the trade if NYR added another good piece. Probably Hagelin would be where I targeted.

Gives us a McD - EJ top pairing and fills in our other hole in the top 6 LW area. Not a top line guy, but his speed could be lethal with Duchy's speed.

Yes, it's an overpayment if I were a NYR fan. Do I care as an Avs fan giving up the #1 overall pick which has yielded players more valuable than that package in the past? No.

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06-25-2013, 05:55 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
#1 pick >>>>> McDonagh.

McDonagh is what he is IMO. I don't see the offensive upside to get better in that department. He should be an elite #2 dman for a long time. A Ryan Suter lite player.

That does not get you the #1 pick.
Fair enough. I disagree in that he won't improve enough offensively.
Not saying he's gonna turn into Shea Weber offensively, but I see sustained improvement, every year, no regression. Will focus on it once the D aspect is TOTALLY down, and his shot is stronger.

Be that as it may, thank you for the head count.

I disagree as to whether or not a proven D of that calibre is worth the pick in a given year.

The point of the thread was IF ANY player fit what Colo wants, and didn't have negative issues, then McD was the fit. However that assumed McK closer to Tavares than Stamkos.

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06-25-2013, 05:57 PM
  #28
bernmeister
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Agreed to a certain extent, but I'd entertain the trade if NYR added another good piece. Probably Hagelin would be where I targeted.

Gives us a McD - EJ top pairing and fills in our other hole in the top 6 LW area. Not a top line guy, but his speed could be lethal with Duchy's speed.

Yes, it's an overpayment if I were a NYR fan. Do I care as an Avs fan giving up the #1 overall pick which has yielded players more valuable than that package in the past? No.
Ok, this is a definite maybe.

You would do the first for McD + another piece.
Some probably would say piece or 2.

Depending on what that piece is, I believe Rangers can accommodate.
Head count the other way, thanks.

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06-25-2013, 06:02 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
No offense to NYR fans, but I don't like the idea of trading the #1 over all for even McD plus.

Mackinnon is too similar to Stamkos, not sure Mack will put up 60 goals a year, but I see it more like 50 goals and a few more assists than Stamkos as Mack's upside.

At this point I hope they retain the pick.
No offense taken.
If he is indeed closer to Stamkos, then it is not even really a discussion.

However, is it that black and white clear at this point?
I remember when the Pens drafted Lemieux. That was a night and day generational talent. And everyone knew it well before day 1. There were allegations of Pitt tanking it.

Is it THAT crystal clear about McK. right now?
If so, why are we only hearing about this now?


head count, you are against

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06-25-2013, 06:05 PM
  #30
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I would say no only because knowing Sather, he'd just use the #1 to grab Jones as a replacement for McDonagh, and then we basically have the same team except Jones has far less experience, so why bother?

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06-25-2013, 06:08 PM
  #31
Sergei Shirokov
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me Maybe View Post
You bet he is and you should also there is not a single Ranger fan who shares his wild & wacky beliefs.
Lol no, no he is not.

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06-25-2013, 06:09 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
With our center depth I'm not sure Stepan is enough regardless of value.

Our two major needs are a top line winger and a top pairing defender. If you somehow met both, yeah I'd say McD + gets it done.

Stepan isn't an upgrade on O'Reilly for the Avs either, so we end up in the same boat up front pretty much. So with that said, I'd rather have Duchene & Mack as our two centers for the next 15 years.

O'Reilly can gets us a quality young defender at the deadline or next off-season. Nothing being thrown out here screams 'Can't say no' more so due to needs than value though.

Edit : Also, I like McD... however I'm not sold on him having much more offensive upside at this point. Which is probably hurting the idea of the trade quite a bit IMO.
Thank you for the clarification. Good input.
You are in the yes, I do the deal if Rangers cough up enough extra.

I have to consider what is and is not too much extra.
Considering Nash and is huge contract are here to stay, is Hagelin enough, as was suggested. Maybe a future or a pick?

Or do we need to look at a proven scorer, like Callahan, and if I add Cally, you know I want something back the other way....

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06-25-2013, 06:14 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
I would say no only because knowing Sather, he'd just use the #1 to grab Jones as a replacement for McDonagh, and then we basically have the same team except Jones has far less experience, so why bother?
If Sather was really shrewd, he do
MDZ + for 7th overall +
Staal + for 5th overall +

and offer FL 5th + 7th ovs + small add for #2 = Jones

Yeah, it totally rips our lefty side apart, but it more that upgrades other areas.

Since I consider McK the better player, and our draft guru Gordie Clark will take the best player, I consider your fear allayed, and put you as a yes.

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06-25-2013, 06:46 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
It is looking like McKinnon may be first overall.
But AVs still will need a franchise anchor at LD, since they have some nice guys at RD.

Ryan McDonagh, as to overall defensive game, is superior bordering elite with upside to develop an offensive game.

McD is the perfect fit. AVs have to determine if they keep McK and deal a C, what return, how good a D or 2 can they swing?

Or they can deal him to Rangers, who would gamble on how much of a franchise player Nate can become.

Right now, McD already IS a franchise calibre D.

So I say it's McD for McK w/+s on both sides resulting in a small net add by Colorado.

Thoughts?

And yeah, I'm sure there are a few Col fans who want not 1, but 10 McD for that pick, and yeah, I'm sure there are some Ranger fans who will not deal McD for almost anyone.

That said, please address your opinion of value. What is added to both sides? Who pays more? and why...

This post is SOOOO funny. If McD was such a great "FRANCHISE" dman then there would be no way the Rangers would trade him even for the 1st OA. As good as Big Mac has the POTENTIAL to be, there is no way in hell that the Kings would trade Doughty for him, or the Blues trade Pietrangelo for him, or the Yotes trade OEL for him. McD isn't even CLOSE to being a true #1 dman let alone beign a FRANCHISE player. FRANCHISE player means they are headed for the hockey HOF and TBH, there's almost no chance in hell that McD even reaches the Rangers HOF even if he spends his entire career in NYR blue.

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06-25-2013, 06:48 PM
  #35
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the funny thing is, the dude thinks hes right about all this

wants to trade everyone for draft picks

it actually angers me to read this **** all the time

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06-25-2013, 06:53 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Lol no, no he is not.
Yes, he is and at a much more difficult position to fill at the pro level. With Torts gone......we will happily watch McD grow his offensive game and his rounding into the #1 D, and one of the top 10 in the NHL. He has al the tools and is surely worth more than McKinnon .

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06-25-2013, 06:53 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Ok, so I'll keep the head count as best I can over the next few days.
You are saying NY needs to add.

If we agree NY would prefer to keep Stepan for combo of reasons, drop him and Stastny off, would that be your bottom?

McD is not enough, but close enough with a future first?
You could add 5 first rnd picks with McD and the Avs STILL wouldn't trade you Big Mac. I think it's REALLY funny how you want ot include "a future first" and not even willing to give up THIS YEARS 1st.

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06-25-2013, 06:57 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Agreed to a certain extent, but I'd entertain the trade if NYR added another good piece. Probably Hagelin would be where I targeted.

Gives us a McD - EJ top pairing and fills in our other hole in the top 6 LW area. Not a top line guy, but his speed could be lethal with Duchy's speed.

Yes, it's an overpayment if I were a NYR fan. Do I care as an Avs fan giving up the #1 overall pick which has yielded players more valuable than that package in the past? No.

Hell, if that's all you want for the 1st OA then I think Coburn + Simmonds would be a package you'd be interested in too.

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06-25-2013, 07:07 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
IMO, Hedman was a #2 overall, coulda been first.

Hedman has better skating, better shot. Better complete package.
But overall, as to results of D performance, I give it to the excellent McD over the strong Hedman.

So overall on balance
Hedman and McDonagh are both high premium value.

So if McD is close enough to Hedman and Hedman is close enough to a first, what does that tell you?

Obviously, we have years where a GENERATIONAL talent comes up in that slot. McK's stature is not there yet, is it?

So answer to your ?, that's one way I measure it.
I look at it this way from a different perspective.... none of the teams that drafted first overall the last 6 years would trade that player for Hedman so that should show how common the drop from 1 to 2 is. Close to first and first are two totally different animals.

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06-25-2013, 07:11 PM
  #40
Sergei Shirokov
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Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel View Post
Yes, he is and at a much more difficult position to fill at the pro level. With Torts gone......we will happily watch McD grow his offensive game and his rounding into the #1 D, and one of the top 10 in the NHL. He has al the tools and is surely worth more than McKinnon .
I'll take a franchise player like Mackinnon over a borderline #1D.

Mackinnon is someone you build your franchise around, McDonagh isn't.

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06-25-2013, 07:21 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
I'll take a franchise player like Mackinnon over a borderline #1D.

Mackinnon is someone you build your franchise around, McDonagh isn't.
EXACTLY. However, don't try to tell Rangers fans this because to them McD IS the type of player you build around, they just want to trade him though. How funny is that?

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06-25-2013, 07:22 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
If Sather was really shrewd, he do
MDZ + for 7th overall +
Staal + for 5th overall +

and offer FL 5th + 7th ovs + small add for #2 = Jones

Yeah, it totally rips our lefty side apart, but it more that upgrades other areas.

Since I consider McK the better player, and our draft guru Gordie Clark will take the best player, I consider your fear allayed, and put you as a yes.
Except as an Oiler fan I can tell you we have zero interest in giving up our pick for MDZ, and that the same can be said for the Canes and Staal as they'll just wait 2 years and nab him in UFA. Also, what would your D look like after that?

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06-25-2013, 07:29 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Look at the past 6 yrs #1 picks:

2007: Kane
2008: Stamkos
2009: Tavares
2010: Hall
2011: RNH
2012: Yakupov

I'd easily take any of those players over McDonagh type, only Rangers fans say no to this IMO.

I do this trade.
Was going to say this.

McD is a good young player, but I would not trade #1 for him.

Sure you are just getting a prospect, but the ceiling is so much higher...

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06-25-2013, 07:33 PM
  #44
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I would trade McD for Kane, Stamkos or JT. None of the Oilers 3.

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06-25-2013, 07:38 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
I would trade McD for Kane, Stamkos or JT. None of the Oilers 3.
Classic board poster You have made the HF hall of fame sir, or madame.

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06-25-2013, 07:42 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
I would trade McD for Kane, Stamkos or JT. None of the Oilers 3.
I can understand not wanting RNH and Yak has yet to "prove" himself but you seriously wouldn't take Hall for him??? Hall is probably the BEST LW in the game and EASILY one of the top 30 forwards in the game.

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06-25-2013, 07:42 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vespa99 View Post
Classic board poster You have made the HF hall of fame sir, or madame.
Have I? The classic board poster is actually this clown advocating to trade all of our young developing players for younger, less developed players (draft picks).

This isn't a video game. You win by putting together a core and building on it. Not making fantasy trades.

Oilers have sure had a lot of success the last 3 seasons with their amazing young offense!

Sorry, I'd rather have a solid core of defense and goaltending that we can contend every season with.

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06-25-2013, 07:45 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I can understand not wanting RNH and Yak has yet to "prove" himself but you seriously wouldn't take Hall for him??? Hall is probably the BEST LW in the game and EASILY one of the top 30 forwards in the game.
Its very close with Hall. I just don't know if robbing Peter to pay Paul is a good idea. I believe he was over a PPG this year, so theres that.

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06-25-2013, 07:49 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
I'll take a franchise player like Mackinnon over a borderline #1D.

Mackinnon is someone you build your franchise around, McDonagh isn't.
Nice to see that you already know what Mackinnon is.

"Classic board poster"

Draft picks are more valueable than proven talent! even proven YOUNG talent with 10+ years to go in their careers!!

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06-25-2013, 07:50 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Have I? The classic board poster is actually this clown advocating to trade all of our young developing players for younger, less developed players (draft picks).

This isn't a video game. You win by putting together a core and building on it. Not making fantasy trades.

Oilers have sure had a lot of success the last 3 seasons with their amazing young offense!

Sorry, I'd rather have a solid core of defense and goaltending that we can contend every season with.
And I would rather have Taylor Hall than any player on your team. And I am guessing 30 GM's would agree. The fact that you wouldn't trade a good player for him tells me pretty much all I need to know about your hockey philosophy. I cant say for sure about Nuge or Yak yet but I think they will also fit in that category soon. Its just too early to say with 100% confidence.
You need a core of talent to win. Our core all arrived in those 3 unsuccessful years you are mocking. I would bet the farm in a couple years you wont be so pleased with yourself and your team

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