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Old
06-25-2013, 09:32 PM
  #26
Frk It
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Clowe and Murray are, at the least, big, physical players. White is a shrimp, and he was having a horrific season.
Point taken on the size. Clowe was having an absolutely terrible season where I'm sure most Sharks fans thought he had little to no value at that time. Pretty impressive for them to get what they got considering.

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Old
06-25-2013, 09:34 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
So why not do what the Sharks did?
The Sharks traded away guys who didn't fit. And they also traded for guys who would.

We did nothing.
You mean take risks?

Yeah we don't do that.

People think KH is bold because some young guys ended up playing a lot, when really that wasn't the plan and only happened because guys got hurt.

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06-25-2013, 09:36 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
You mean take risks?

Yeah we don't do that.

People think KH is bold because some young guys ended up playing a lot, when really that wasn't the plan and only happened because guys got hurt.
It's not even a risk by trading Ian White. So the press box gets a few degrees colder with one less body being up there.

It's just incompetence on Ken Holland's part.

This offseason has basically turned into, "How many of Ken Holland's mistakes can we undo?"


Last edited by WingedWheel1987: 06-25-2013 at 09:41 PM.
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Old
06-25-2013, 10:02 PM
  #29
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For the draft there 1st round pick they should go with a good puck moving two-way D. Maybe someone like Morrissey, or Pulock. And for there 2nd round pick, they should go with Sweden left winger, Jacob De La Rose.

- For trades, Buy outs, and signings.

- Buy out Samullssen.

- Trade Eaves

- Let Ian White go

- Let Cleary go.

-Filuppla is optional, If they lose him. They will be taking a chunk out of scoring and playmaking.

-Sign: Viktor Stalberg (Cheap) He's a fast skater, Sweden, He's under-rated. He can put up good numbers from 25-40 points+. He would replace Cleary or Filluppla's roles.

-Sign: Briere, (Only for cheap 2 million) or less. He will bring that veteran, playmaking to the team.

-Sign: Or go with big body's: Clowe, Horton, Bickell, Morrow.

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06-25-2013, 10:08 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by GrindNMuck View Post
For the draft there 1st round pick they should go with a good puck moving two-way D. Maybe someone like Morrissey, or Pulock. And for there 2nd round pick, they should go with Sweden left winger, Jacob De La Rose.

- For trades, Buy outs, and signings.

- Buy out Samullssen.

- Trade Eaves

- Let Ian White go

- Let Cleary go.

-Filuppla is optional, If they lose him. They will be taking a chunk out of scoring and playmaking.

-Sign: Viktor Stalberg (Cheap) He's a fast skater, Sweden, He's under-rated. He can put up good numbers from 25-40 points+. He would replace Cleary or Filluppla's roles.

-Sign: Briere, (Only for cheap 2 million) or less. He will bring that veteran, playmaking to the team.

-Sign: Or go with big body's: Clowe, Horton, Bickell, Morrow.
I like how "Sweden" is a quantifiable asset in this scenario

Briere apparently is staying near his kids, which basically means he's not available to us "cheap" afaict.

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Old
06-25-2013, 10:13 PM
  #31
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Its hard for me to label Holland "incompetent" when we made the playoffs and won 7 games against a 1 and a 2 seed.

He kept filppula probably because he was a proven two way veteran, you hold on to guys like these when youre fighting for the 8th seed.

Again, the way i see it, he kept white as insurance. Depth offensive defenseman.

I cant really criticize Holland for trying to make the playoffs, thats his job. Obviously he wants to rebuild on the fly

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06-25-2013, 11:00 PM
  #32
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The only explanation on White that makes any sense is that the Wings' philosophy is that snitches get stitches buried in press box purgatory and not rewarded with a chance to build FA value on a playoff team.

Apparently they value that philosophy more than whatever they could have gotten for him. No other explanation holds any water. They clearly had no intention of ever playing him again no matter how many injuries they had.

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Old
06-25-2013, 11:11 PM
  #33
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Like I said in other threads buying out CC is a complete waste. He's better than Lashoff, only has one year left, and can probably fetch at worst a conditional 7th in a trade.

Plus you can never have too many defenseman. Even if you waive Lashoff I don't see him definitely getting claimed.

Sammy should be a no brainer, nothing more needs to be said. That signing was putrid from Day 1.


If we can get a knew skate sharpener for Emmerton I'd do it, he's likely to get waived after Camp anyway.

I like Tootoo and think we should keep him, but I guess I won't complain if he's traded. I wouldn't buy him out though. I prefer him to Emmerton, Sammy and Bert, maybe Eaves too.

I'd buyout Sammy 100%, then I'd either not use the other and have a decision to make with Franzen next Summer or just use it on Bertuzzi (if LTIR isn't an option.)

UFA/Brunner-Datsyuk-Zetterberg
Franzen-Weiss/Some Other Acquisition-Nyquist
Tatar-Helm-Abdelkader
Miller-Andersson-Tootoo
(Eaves, ???/Bert)

Kronwall-Ericsson
UFA/Trade/Quincey-Smith
DeKeyser-Kindl/Quincey
(Lashoff/CC/Kindl)

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Old
06-25-2013, 11:15 PM
  #34
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The Wings could sign Norm Maracle and waive him, and he'd get claimed. Some of the shine is off the Wings' apple, but other teams are still desperate the some of the old magic will rub off.

Lashoff's not making it through waivers.

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06-25-2013, 11:15 PM
  #35
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For now, I think Holland needs to settle in on buying out Sammy and either buying out Bert or convincing him to retire. Then, he needs to see who else has been bought out, there are some very interesting names being kicked around out there. Tootoo should not be bought out, people have suddenly forgotten what he brought to the team (grit and peskiness) during the season, he will be needed when we go to the east. In any case, one more year of him will not hurt.

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Old
06-26-2013, 12:13 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melbourne Ice View Post
For now, I think Holland needs to settle in on buying out Sammy and either buying out Bert or convincing him to retire. Then, he needs to see who else has been bought out, there are some very interesting names being kicked around out there. Tootoo should not be bought out, people have suddenly forgotten what he brought to the team (grit and peskiness) during the season, he will be needed when we go to the east. In any case, one more year of him will not hurt.
How does Bert retiring help us? Berts contract is a 35+ In which means that even if he retires his cap still stays on the books. He would have to be bought out that's the only choice we would have.

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Old
06-26-2013, 12:16 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Number1RedWingsFan52 View Post
How does Bert retiring help us? Berts contract is a 35+ In which means that even if he retires his cap still stays on the books. He would have to be bought out that's the only choice we would have.
Or LTIR, keeping one of the buyouts. That is the path I would go with Bert, there is basically no chance he would pass a true physical at this point.

Even as much as I defend Franzen, I would keep one of the buyouts in reserve for next off-season in the event management wants to exercise it on him. Don't think it is likely then either, but it should be held in reserve for just that reason in my opinion.

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06-26-2013, 12:52 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by RedWinger10 View Post
According to Ansar Khan, via Bleacher Report, the Red Wings will try to trade Jordin Tootoo and Cory Emmerton soon, according to his sources. These are efforts to "alleviate logjam" of forwards. They are also looking at using their compliance buyouts for one or both Carlo Coliacovo and Mikael Samuelsson. These decisions will depend on what moves they make at the entry draft in Newark this weekend. All of this will be explored and carried out by July 4th before the free agency opens on the 5th.
Is this even possible?
I thought the buyout window closes before the draft starts. Thought i heard one of the TSN talking heads say this.

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06-26-2013, 01:00 AM
  #39
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Is this even possible?
I thought the buyout window closes before the draft starts. Thought i heard one of the TSN talking heads say this.
No the buy out starts at 11:00 Pm Wednesday June 26th 2013 and ends Thursday July 4th 2013 at 5:00 pm the day before free agency

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06-26-2013, 01:06 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Or LTIR, keeping one of the buyouts. That is the path I would go with Bert, there is basically no chance he would pass a true physical at this point.

Even as much as I defend Franzen, I would keep one of the buyouts in reserve for next off-season in the event management wants to exercise it on him. Don't think it is likely then either, but it should be held in reserve for just that reason in my opinion.
Exactly I'm just wondering if Frazen may even be around much longer, Because from what I'm taking out of the current 14 man Forward and what they were saying is that it's going to be vastly different then the current one we have now sounds like maybe Holland is going to make several big trade moves maybe I'm reading it wrong but from what i could tell they were saying that our forward corp is going to be vastly different then from what we have now.

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06-26-2013, 01:08 AM
  #41
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Remind me again, when did Holland sign CC and Sammy?

Two awful signings that were seen as awful signings the moment they happened.

And........now they are getting ready to get bought out, which is going to waste the only two compliance buyouts the Wings have.

Ian White walking out the front door just makes him look even worse.

If Flip walks.....wow, talk about wasting assets. At that point you have to ask Kenny to enroll in the Ray Shero school of asset management.
You know, I've always advocated not being afraid to let guys go...especially if they're not "core" and you're making room for kids.

But I'm starting to get the idea that we're going to lose Flip and Brunner.

Now, if you ask me, losing Flip and Hudler in successive years ... and then letting Brunner go.... and getting nothing?

That would be a major failure -- especially if we don't do anything about getting a major league winger.

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06-26-2013, 03:42 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
The only explanation on White that makes any sense is that the Wings' philosophy is that snitches get stitches buried in press box purgatory and not rewarded with a chance to build FA value on a playoff team.

Apparently they value that philosophy more than whatever they could have gotten for him. No other explanation holds any water. They clearly had no intention of ever playing him again no matter how many injuries they had.
Are you referring to him complaining about being healthy scratched? He was basically like, "I'm not requesting to be traded...but I'm requesting to be traded". I thought it was a pretty a "un-Red Wing-like" thing to do on his part. That might have been what made Babcock sour towards him.

He might have been a ***** in the locker room as well, who knows? But we don't need any bad eggs if that was the case, and he's very replaceable.

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06-26-2013, 03:49 AM
  #43
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What happens cap-wise if a player is waived and claimed by a team? And why isn't that being discussed as an option for some of these guys?

Obviously getting anything in return is better than losing a guy for nothing, but if CC, Tootoo or Sammy can't be traded, why not just waive them and hope they get claimed? If not, then look into buying them out.

I'm probably missing something here, but if there's any CBA experts that can educate me I'd appreciate it.

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06-26-2013, 06:27 AM
  #44
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I was under the impression a player had to make $3 million or more to be eligible for a compliance buyout, per what I've read here before. Is that not the case, since Holland is talking about a compliance buyout of CC?

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Old
06-26-2013, 06:29 AM
  #45
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I was under the impression a player had to make $3 million or more to be eligible for a compliance buyout, per what I've read here before. Is that not the case, since Holland is talking about a compliance buyout of CC?
From capgeek

Quote:
BUYOUTS

During the ordinary course buyout periods in June 2013 and June 2014, teams will be permitted two compliance buyouts. Compliance buyouts follow the same formula as ordinary-course buyouts either 1/3 or 2/3 of actual salary depending on age but do not count against the cap. In 2013, the buyout period begins 48 hours after the Stanley Cup Final ends and concludes on July 4 at 5 p.m.

The NHL allowed teams to execute one of their two compliance buyout options prior to the 2012-13 season on players with cap hits of more than $3 million. Two teams exercised the accelerated compliance buyout option: the Montreal Canadiens on Scott Gomez and the New York Rangers on Wade Redden. The players received full pay and counted at their full cap hit for 2012-13, after which the compliance buyout payments kick in. NOTE: The $3 million minimum applied only to accelerated compliance buyouts and does not apply to normal compliance buyouts.
http://www.capgeek.com/new-cba/

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06-26-2013, 06:39 AM
  #46
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Thanks.

I would still hope he can dump CC for a pick rather than waste a compliance buyout on him. Otherwise, keep him and bury him on LTIR when he inevitably gets hurt.

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Old
06-26-2013, 07:10 AM
  #47
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Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Brunner
Franzen - Weiss - Horton
Nyquist - Andersson - Tatar
Miller - Abdelkader - Eaves
Tootoo, Helm (rotating in for Miller or Eaves and move Abdelkader to the wing, when healthy)

Kronwall - Ericsson
DeKeyser - Smith
Quincey - Kindl
Lashoff

Howard
Gustavsson

Callups: Sheahan, Jurco, Ferraro, Jarnkrok, Sproul, Ouellet, Almqvist or Mrazek...
Buyout/trade: Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, Emmerton and Colaiacovo

This lineup gives us scoring depth and balance in terms of special teams. Weiss and Horton can link-up once again and they provide a short-term cover for our prospects to develop and take over (instead of being stuck with an overpaid second line center for the next 6-8 years...*cough* Filppula *cough*).

I think Brunner could thrive with D and Z. He could be a relatively cheap 30 goal scorer on their line. Franzen and Horton are capable of 30 goals. D, Z and Weiss can pot 25 goals or so. Tatar can manage 20 goals with PP time.

I'm letting Bertuzzi, Sammy and Colaiacovo walk. As well as Cleary and Filppula (or use him to acquire Weiss' rights). Sammy is injury prone and we have better options. Bertuzzi struggled with injuries last season too. But I wouldn't mind keeping him another season if necessary. I maintain that Emmerton is not our best 4th line C. He's below average in nearly every aspect of the game. He has the odd good game, but he's expendable.

I liked Tootoo during the regular season. He doesn't play on any special teams, but he adds that grit we sometimes need against certain teams. So many times he can land a really good hit and change the momentum. I had some awesome shifts with Helm in the one game they played together.

PP

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Brunner (not on the point!)
Kronwall - Smith

Nyquist/Tatar - Franzen - Weiss - Horton
Kindl

PK

Andersson - Miller
Kronwall - Ericsson

Abdelkader - Eaves
DeKeyser - Quincey

Rotate in D and Z (especially on 3 on 5 PK) and Weiss or Helm.

If you can trade Quincey for a reliable defensive defenseman (RHS would be a bonus), go for it.

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Old
06-26-2013, 07:51 AM
  #48
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The Wings could sign Norm Maracle and waive him, and he'd get claimed. Some of the shine is off the Wings' apple, but other teams are still desperate the some of the old magic will rub off.

Lashoff's not making it through waivers.
Mursak didn't get claimed.

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Old
06-26-2013, 08:46 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
You know, I've always advocated not being afraid to let guys go...especially if they're not "core" and you're making room for kids.

But I'm starting to get the idea that we're going to lose Flip and Brunner.

Now, if you ask me, losing Flip and Hudler in successive years ... and then letting Brunner go.... and getting nothing?

That would be a major failure -- especially if we don't do anything about getting a major league winger.
This will probably happen. I'm banking on Filppula and Brunner leaving and we'll hold onto Bertuzzi, Samuelsson and re-sign Cleary. I just don't see Holland figuring stuff out until the team is about to fall off the face of the earth.

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06-26-2013, 08:52 AM
  #50
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Dave Lozo’s Bag Skate: The offseason will be an orgy of trades, signings and buyouts like never before.

Good read imo.

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