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Blues Trade Proposals - Part VII

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06-29-2013, 11:58 AM
  #101
bleedblue1223
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Hell, since the Strickland "speculation" is being discussed on the main board, figure we can discuss the positives of what he brought up here as he has been doing a bit better lately.

What do you think we'd add or willing to add to Halak for Couturier as that's who Strickland thinks we'd target?

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06-29-2013, 12:04 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Hell, since the Strickland "speculation" is being discussed on the main board, figure we can discuss the positives of what he brought up here as he has been doing a bit better lately.

What do you think we'd add or willing to add to Halak for Couturier as that's who Strickland thinks we'd target?
Russell was my thought. They need defenders who can move the puck out of their zone real bad and Russell fits the bill. Might need more like mid/late pick or prospect.

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06-29-2013, 12:56 PM
  #103
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With Pietrangelo reportedly not willing to settle for anything less than 7m per year, and the Blues history of paying what a player is worth as opposed to paying for what a player could potentially be in the future, there is always the chance that the two part ways.

Pientrangelo to the Avs for the 1st overall? MacKinnon could finally give us that elite center we so badly need.

I hate to think about losing Pietrangelo, but I can't imagine the blues being able to afford to ice a strong, consistent team with a big contract like that.

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06-29-2013, 12:59 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by rocketpop View Post
With Pietrangelo reportedly not willing to settle for anything less than 7m per year, and the Blues history of paying what a player is worth as opposed to paying for what a player could potentially be in the future, there is always the chance that the two part ways.

Pientrangelo to the Avs for the 1st overall? MacKinnon could finally give us that elite center we so badly need.

I hate to think about losing Pietrangelo, but I can't imagine the blues being able to afford to ice a strong, consistent team with a big contract like that.
Petro isn't being traded and he for sure as hell won't be traded within the division.

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06-29-2013, 01:28 PM
  #105
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With Pietrangelo reportedly not willing to settle for anything less than 7m per year, and the Blues history of paying what a player is worth as opposed to paying for what a player could potentially be in the future, there is always the chance that the two part ways.

Pientrangelo to the Avs for the 1st overall? MacKinnon could finally give us that elite center we so badly need.

I hate to think about losing Pietrangelo, but I can't imagine the blues being able to afford to ice a strong, consistent team with a big contract like that.

Then maybe the next summer we can trade our elite #1C to get an elite #1D that we will desperately need.

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06-29-2013, 01:35 PM
  #106
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Seguin perhaps? Plays centre would fit well...

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06-29-2013, 01:47 PM
  #107
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It sucks, but I'd be okay with a Petro trade as long as the return is good.

Between he, Halak, Perron, Russell and a few other prospects, there's no reason you can't get everything you'd need and then some.

Army's a genius though, so I'm not worried regardless of what happens with Petro either way.

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06-29-2013, 01:49 PM
  #108
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Boston doesn't have the cap space for a trade that would make sense for us for Seguin.

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06-29-2013, 01:58 PM
  #109
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I'd be thrilled with Couturier if we send Halak and other pieces over.

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06-29-2013, 01:59 PM
  #110
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I'm kinda meh, on Couturier.

Why should we go after him?

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06-29-2013, 02:02 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by illninofan View Post
I'm kinda meh, on Couturier.

Why should we go after him?
If we are giving up Halak+, then it's good, but the offers of him for Petro or Shatty are terrible. He'd be good with us depending on the cost. With his defensive ability, the fact that he does have vision, and our depth on the wings, this is a place that he could succeed.

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06-29-2013, 02:03 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Boston doesn't have the cap space for a trade that would make sense for us for Seguin.
Rattie, future 1st and another prospect (not Schwartz or Tarasenko, would prefer to avoid Jaskin but that might not be possible)

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06-29-2013, 02:06 PM
  #113
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Rattie, future 1st and another prospect (not Schwartz or Tarasenko, would prefer to avoid Jaskin but that might not be possible)
Reports are they want a top 10 pick+. It would be really complicated for us to get him because we'd have to make 1 or 2 other trades to make it work salary wise.

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06-29-2013, 02:08 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Reports are they want a top 10 pick+. It would be really complicated for us to get him because we'd have to make 1 or 2 other trades to make it work salary wise.
I suppose, it just sucks to have an ideal player on the block and the two teams can't get a deal made.

Damn them and their high lack of cap space.

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06-29-2013, 02:11 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by illninofan View Post
I'm kinda meh, on Couturier.

Why should we go after him?
Because he's young, cost controlled and good.

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06-29-2013, 02:39 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by BlueDream View Post
Because he's young, cost controlled and good.
42 points in 123 games

"Good" is a matter of opinion.
Personally, I don't consider that "good".

Couturier is young, big, can play above average defense at the center position and was a high draft pick indicating deeper potential; but right now he hasn't done nearly enough offensively to be considered an upgrade on anybody in our top 9 including Sobotka.

Chalk me down as somebody else who doesn't get the Couturier love.
We need actual results, not more potential.

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06-29-2013, 02:51 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
42 points in 123 games

"Good" is a matter of opinion.
Personally, I don't consider that "good".

Couturier is young, big, can play above average defense at the center position and was a high draft pick indicating deeper potential; but right now he hasn't done nearly enough offensively to be considered an upgrade on anybody in our top 9 including Sobotka.

Chalk me down as somebody else who doesn't get the Couturier love.
We need actual results, not more potential.
He's 20 years old, calm down. Lots of potential.

Chalk me down for realizing we aren't going to get a superstar and acquiring a good young player who could soon basically allow us to have three 2nd-line centers isn't a bad option, especially in a deal around Halak.

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06-29-2013, 02:59 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by BlueDream View Post
He's 20 years old, calm down. Lots of potential.

Chalk me down for realizing we aren't going to get a superstar and acquiring a good young player who could soon basically allow us to have three 2nd-line centers isn't a bad option, especially in a deal around Halak.
At the same age David Perron had 77 points in 143 games.

And where is Perron now? On the trade block for lack of tangible production.

Sorry, no.
At this point I am done with potential.
I want results, and Couturier does not offer you results.

There is exactly 1 question to be asked with any trade we make; would the players we're getting have made the difference in the series against LA.
If the answer isn't a yes, you look elsewhere. We don't have the chips to make multiple moves.
Couturier does not make the difference in that series. No thanks.
I'd rather have a draft pick for Halak and get somebody that our scouting staff has done their homework on.

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06-29-2013, 03:02 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by BlueDream View Post
He's 20 years old, calm down. Lots of potential.

Chalk me down for realizing we aren't going to get a superstar and acquiring a good young player who could soon basically allow us to have three 2nd-line centers isn't a bad option, especially in a deal around Halak.
I don't think Blues need another Backes. Seguin would be great though. He, Schwartz and Tarasenko are the same year's draft btw. Will be a killer line.

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06-29-2013, 03:10 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
At the same age David Perron had 77 points in 143 games.

And where is Perron now? On the trade block for lack of tangible production.

Sorry, no.
At this point I am done with potential.
I want results, and Couturier does not offer you results.

There is exactly 1 question to be asked with any trade we make; would the players we're getting have made the difference in the series against LA.
If the answer isn't a yes, you look elsewhere. We don't have the chips to make multiple moves.
Couturier does not make the difference in that series. No thanks.
I'd rather have a draft pick for Halak and get somebody that our scouting staff has done their homework on.
Perron has produced pretty well. He's on the trade block for other reasons, such as our need for a center. You act like he's on the block because he's been a bust or something. Couturier is also a better defensive player for our system. Couturier could easily offer results.

The fact that you downplay potential and then say you would rather have a draft pick than a young player already playing in the NHL (former first rounder) is why your argument doesn't make sense.

Also, if the Strickland report is true, the Blues are high on Couturier. But yeah let's get a draft pick, that will help us more against LA than Couturier.

And to the poster above me, yeah obviously Seguin would be great, but he'd also cost a lot more and is probably really not as available. I'll be shocked if Boston deals him.

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06-29-2013, 03:20 PM
  #121
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God if Armstrong can get Seguin that would be awesome. What would it cost though?

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06-29-2013, 03:38 PM
  #122
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since Boston is looking for a top 10 pick... Halak and Cole to philly for the 11th overall, the 11th overall and edmundson to Edmonton for the seventh the seventh and a prospect (not tarasenko or Schwartz) fro seguin. Ill admit my value when analyzing trades has probably been screwed up from years of playing NHL games so sorry if I am crazy off value wise. it ends up being halak, cole, edmundson, and probably rattie/jaskin for seguin.

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06-29-2013, 03:46 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
At the same age David Perron had 77 points in 143 games.

And where is Perron now? On the trade block for lack of tangible production.

Sorry, no.
At this point I am done with potential.
I want results, and Couturier does not offer you results.

There is exactly 1 question to be asked with any trade we make; would the players we're getting have made the difference in the series against LA.
If the answer isn't a yes, you look elsewhere. We don't have the chips to make multiple moves.
Couturier does not make the difference in that series. No thanks.
I'd rather have a draft pick for Halak and get somebody that our scouting staff has done their homework on.
Funny you should pick David Perron as a bizarre comparison, because it highlights very clearly that player development is different for every player. Perron didn't have 143 games at the same age, because he was drafted as an overager. He had only 1 year in the League at the same age. Hell Pietrangelo did not look impressive defensively in the NHL in the look ins he had in the first couple of seasons.

How much offensive upside Couturier has is certainly debatable, but he has performed very well in the role that has been asked of him. He isn't worth what Flyers fans would expect, but he is worth more than those who just write off him having any offensive upside has. If he could be had at a reasonable price, we'd be crazy not to be looking into it.

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06-29-2013, 04:29 PM
  #124
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I fully understand the "done with potential" angle, but Couturier is already a good player and the Blues have the ability to pay from depth to address a need and not blink. That doesn't mean they should pay like Couturier is currently a top center, and that's also why the move is attractive to a lot of Blues fans, because the dream is that they could end up trading only things that they won't miss at all.

Like I said, that's a dream scenario, but I understand the reasoning and desire. Watch Couturier. He has great hands and a very good shot. He can play basically any type of game you need him to play. His goal scoring rate improved this year despite the fact that Philly was atrocious. It wouldn't surprise me to see him hit somewhere around Kopitar or Jordan Staal+ in style and impact within two seasons.

I agree strongly that doesn't mean he is the Blues' answer right now. If they want to win the Cup in the upcoming season, they need more moves or they need players to break out. But if the Blues could get Couturier now without having to deal one of their main defenders, Allen, Schwartz, Tarasenko, Berglund, Steen, or Backes, it's probably a smart move.

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06-29-2013, 04:33 PM
  #125
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IMO, Couturier will develop similarly to ROR. They both had similar rookie and sophomore years and ROR broke out in his 3rd. With our wingers, Couturier could do the same. I still wouldn't take that risk by trading someone of major significance.

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