HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > St. Louis Blues
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
Notices

Around the NHL Discussion - Part II

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-01-2013, 09:57 PM
  #526
Bluesman91
Registered User
 
Bluesman91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 9,429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
Strombone
‏@strombone1
Just an FYI. If Ray Emery ever decides to skate down the ice and try to fight me I'm getting the **** out of dodge!!!

God Luongo has such a good personality.

Bluesman91 is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 03:54 AM
  #527
erderuft
Registered User
 
erderuft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Borås, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 533
vCash: 500
I get that Emery felt pissed off about his team sucking. But the thought process of "I've played terrible today, I'm going to go beat on their guy 'cause he's been good" -- that I don't get. Pretty embarassing to force Holtby to fight him. Just freakin' live w/ the fact that you suck.

erderuft is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 02:26 PM
  #528
Daley Tarasenkshow
The Notorious
 
Daley Tarasenkshow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: St. Louis MO
Country: United States
Posts: 5,513
vCash: 1050
Flames recalled Reto Berra. He never had a future with the Blues, so I'm not really taking it in much. So, regardless of if he's this years Fasth, I still call the JayBo trade an absolute steal.

Daley Tarasenkshow is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 06:53 PM
  #529
BadgersandBlues
Registered User
 
BadgersandBlues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,052
vCash: 500
Philly is horrible. Here's to hoping Giroux gets traded to us!

BadgersandBlues is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 07:39 PM
  #530
bleedblue1223
Fire Army
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 32,858
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgersandBlues View Post
Philly is horrible. Here's to hoping Giroux gets traded to us!
Maybe we can get him for what the Sharks gave up for Thornton. We can dream right, or play NHL 14.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 08:30 PM
  #531
BadgersandBlues
Registered User
 
BadgersandBlues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,052
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Maybe we can get him for what the Sharks gave up for Thornton. We can dream right, or play NHL 14.
Teams that trade superstar players for a package never really get -that- much. Go back and look at those, "Quarter for three Dimes," type of trades, the team getting the quarter almost always come out way way way ahead, as the package return isn't all that significant.

BadgersandBlues is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 10:15 PM
  #532
Vladys Gumption
Global Moderator
Colt55
 
Vladys Gumption's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 17,391
vCash: 500
Just our of curiosity I went and looked up Tampa's AHL affiliate. Kucherov of has 19 points in 9 games

Vladys Gumption is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 10:29 PM
  #533
Alklha
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 14,183
vCash: 868
As deep as the 2011 draft was he was a massive steal. If he was North American he would have went in the first round, and he was a safe pick because his parents live and work in NYC. His production will come down to earth, but he is an excellent prospect.

Alklha is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 10:41 PM
  #534
Vladys Gumption
Global Moderator
Colt55
 
Vladys Gumption's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 17,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
As deep as the 2011 draft was he was a massive steal. If he was North American he would have went in the first round, and he was a safe pick because his parents live and work in NYC. His production will come down to earth, but he is an excellent prospect.
I remember wishing we had found a way to snag him in that draft. I think he's gonna be a stud.

Vladys Gumption is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 11:53 PM
  #535
Oberyn
Prince of Dorne
 
Oberyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,788
vCash: 12806
The Oilers are such a mess right now, and Eakins is incredibly arrogant for a rookie coach. Makes me glad our management knows what they're doing and doesn't use cup rings to determine whether they're suitable for their job.

Oberyn is offline  
Old
11-03-2013, 03:43 PM
  #536
Chojin
Tiny Panger...
 
Chojin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,760
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoofSlashFoig View Post
The Oilers are such a mess right now, and Eakins is incredibly arrogant for a rookie coach. Makes me glad our management knows what they're doing and doesn't use cup rings to determine whether they're suitable for their job.
Our head coach and GM both have Cup rings. Not saying our management doesn't know what they're doing, but they have the winning pedgree.

Chojin is offline  
Old
11-03-2013, 05:52 PM
  #537
Oberyn
Prince of Dorne
 
Oberyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,788
vCash: 12806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chojin View Post
Our head coach and GM both have Cup rings. Not saying our management doesn't know what they're doing, but they have the winning pedgree.
I was referring to Kevin Lowe's statement about how he had 5 or 6 cup rings which automatically meant he knew what it took to win. Our management team doesn't find the need to flaunt how many championships they won in an arrogant fashion, which is what I was getting at.

Oberyn is offline  
Old
11-03-2013, 07:56 PM
  #538
superblues
:sarcasm: implied
 
superblues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,736
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoofSlashFoig View Post
I was referring to Kevin Lowe's statement about how he had 5 or 6 cup rings which automatically meant he knew what it took to win. Our management team doesn't find the need to flaunt how many championships they won in an arrogant fashion, which is what I was getting at.
It's an "Act like you've been there before" sort of thing.

superblues is offline  
Old
11-03-2013, 09:16 PM
  #539
Freyj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 616
vCash: 500
Reto Berra with 42/44 for Calgary tonight.

Kris Russell gets the OT GWG.


Freyj is offline  
Old
11-03-2013, 09:37 PM
  #540
The Note in Ky
Bow to the pyramid
 
The Note in Ky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Muskegon, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 1,446
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freyj View Post
Reto Berra with 42/44 for Calgary tonight.

Kris Russell gets the OT GWG.

Lol I know right!
Crazy game. I thought they might win in regulation but the 5 on 3 happened.

The Note in Ky is offline  
Old
11-03-2013, 11:33 PM
  #541
Hooliganx3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,879
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freyj View Post
Reto Berra with 42/44 for Calgary tonight.

Kris Russell gets the OT GWG.

I think Berra is better then a lot of people realize. Not going to say he'll be a superstar. But I see him as a serviceable NHL goalie. Maybe in a backup role though with starter potential.

Hooliganx3 is offline  
Old
11-03-2013, 11:50 PM
  #542
2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
 
2 Minute Minor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Temple, Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 15,340
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
I think Berra is better then a lot of people realize. Not going to say he'll be a superstar. But I see him as a serviceable NHL goalie. Maybe in a backup role though with starter potential.
Between Berra, Allen and Bishop, hopefully the Blues kept the right goalie. I THINK they did, but we'll see.

2 Minute Minor is offline  
Old
11-04-2013, 12:02 AM
  #543
BlueDream
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 15,025
vCash: 500
I believe they did. I think Allen has the highest ceiling for sure. But the nice thing about Allen is he's only 23 and we have the luxury of keeping him in the AHL for another season. The other two goalies are on the verge of turning 27, and we didn't have any room for them in our organization. We were not going to be able to keep Bishop down there that long, and if Berra was still in our organization would he even be in North America right now? Probably not. He has an opportunity with a different team now.

I hope Berra does well in Calgary and beats teams like the 'Hawks like he did tonight. They're not in our division.

No matter what he does really, it's not going to backfire on us. We have Bouwmeester, we have Allen, and we have Halak as our starter. We are strong in goal, and even stronger on defense where we needed to make the upgrade. Bouwmeester is an Olympic defenseman, you make that trade 7 days a week.

BlueDream is offline  
Old
11-04-2013, 02:36 AM
  #544
rumrokh
Jake the Snake Man
 
rumrokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgersandBlues View Post
Teams that trade superstar players for a package never really get -that- much. Go back and look at those, "Quarter for three Dimes," type of trades, the team getting the quarter almost always come out way way way ahead, as the package return isn't all that significant.
Yea, one of my fantasy debates with myself is whether or not the Blues would have to give up Shattenkirk to get Giroux. If I'm Philly, I'm trading Giroux, and the Blues are on the phone, Shatty is where the conversation begins.

However, look at their last couple of big trades: Carter for Voracek, a second, and a first, which ended up being Couturier. Richards for Simmonds, Schenn, and a second rounder. Now, the situation was obviously different: they had Pronger and they desperately needed to clear salary and get a goaltender.

Long-term, those trades could definitely pan out. We could see Couturier and Schenn become perennial all stars. Plus, Philly could be even worse off if they hadn't made those trades. However, not a single one of those assets (Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn, Couturier, or unmade picks) are as valuable as Shattenkirk is. I don't even mean to the Blues, but in general: a young puck-moving defenseman who is solid defensively is straight up superior to prospects and unspectacular wingers.

Now, you could argue that Giroux has more value than Richards or Carter did, but he also has a much higher price tag and has recent injury and performance question marks. So, maybe it's not exactly comparable, but none of the recent under-contract-star-for-parts deals (Ryan, Gaborik, Nash, Richards, Carter) have included a player with Shattenkirk's value. One counter to that is that even if that holds true for what other teams offer, they might offer high-end prospect defensemen that the Blues cannot, so the Blues might have to outbid such offers.

rumrokh is offline  
Old
11-04-2013, 07:34 AM
  #545
rrude
Registered User
 
rrude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 466
vCash: 500
IDK, Bishop looks awfully good. The fact that he's looked good for two different teams (=not system dependent like, maybe, our current goaltenders) is telling. At the very least it seems like we could have gotten a little more for him. A Cory Conacher would look pretty nice in the Bluenote. Have we used the pick we got for him? Was that packaged to take Carrier this year?

rrude is offline  
Old
11-04-2013, 07:42 AM
  #546
Alklha
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 14,183
vCash: 868
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrude View Post
IDK, Bishop looks awfully good. The fact that he's looked good for two different teams (=not system dependent like, maybe, our current goaltenders) is telling. At the very least it seems like we could have gotten a little more for him. A Cory Conacher would look pretty nice in the Bluenote. Have we used the pick we got for him? Was that packaged to take Carrier this year?
We couldn't have got any more for Bishop. He was a goalie with 13 NHL games and was about to become an UFA, getting a second was a great deal. The pick was used on Vannelli.

Unless my memory is playing tricks on me, I think he outplayed Elliott during camp in 2011 but still didn't make the team. It is disappointing we lost him, but hindsight and all that.

Alklha is offline  
Old
11-04-2013, 07:50 AM
  #547
Alklha
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 14,183
vCash: 868
Quote:
Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
Yea, one of my fantasy debates with myself is whether or not the Blues would have to give up Shattenkirk to get Giroux. If I'm Philly, I'm trading Giroux, and the Blues are on the phone, Shatty is where the conversation begins.

However, look at their last couple of big trades: Carter for Voracek, a second, and a first, which ended up being Couturier. Richards for Simmonds, Schenn, and a second rounder. Now, the situation was obviously different: they had Pronger and they desperately needed to clear salary and get a goaltender.

Long-term, those trades could definitely pan out. We could see Couturier and Schenn become perennial all stars. Plus, Philly could be even worse off if they hadn't made those trades. However, not a single one of those assets (Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn, Couturier, or unmade picks) are as valuable as Shattenkirk is. I don't even mean to the Blues, but in general: a young puck-moving defenseman who is solid defensively is straight up superior to prospects and unspectacular wingers.

Now, you could argue that Giroux has more value than Richards or Carter did, but he also has a much higher price tag and has recent injury and performance question marks. So, maybe it's not exactly comparable, but none of the recent under-contract-star-for-parts deals (Ryan, Gaborik, Nash, Richards, Carter) have included a player with Shattenkirk's value. One counter to that is that even if that holds true for what other teams offer, they might offer high-end prospect defensemen that the Blues cannot, so the Blues might have to outbid such offers.
If Garrioch hadn't said that everyone on the Flyers was available then I'd agree that they might be open to offers

If the Flyers see Schenn, Couturier and Laughton as their future (plus with Lecavalier to give them time) then using Giroux to address other needs could make sense. Shattenkirk is a logical starting point, but it is the plus that is going to be the more significant factor. Tarasenko or Schwartz? Not for me.

One thing that I think would work in our favour, if he was available, is that I don't think the Flyers will be interested in waiting to be ready to compete. If they move him it will be for young-ish assets that can help them now.

Alklha is offline  
Old
11-04-2013, 10:57 AM
  #548
BadgersandBlues
Registered User
 
BadgersandBlues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,052
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
Yea, one of my fantasy debates with myself is whether or not the Blues would have to give up Shattenkirk to get Giroux. If I'm Philly, I'm trading Giroux, and the Blues are on the phone, Shatty is where the conversation begins.

However, look at their last couple of big trades: Carter for Voracek, a second, and a first, which ended up being Couturier. Richards for Simmonds, Schenn, and a second rounder. Now, the situation was obviously different: they had Pronger and they desperately needed to clear salary and get a goaltender.

Long-term, those trades could definitely pan out. We could see Couturier and Schenn become perennial all stars. Plus, Philly could be even worse off if they hadn't made those trades. However, not a single one of those assets (Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn, Couturier, or unmade picks) are as valuable as Shattenkirk is. I don't even mean to the Blues, but in general: a young puck-moving defenseman who is solid defensively is straight up superior to prospects and unspectacular wingers.

Now, you could argue that Giroux has more value than Richards or Carter did, but he also has a much higher price tag and has recent injury and performance question marks. So, maybe it's not exactly comparable, but none of the recent under-contract-star-for-parts deals (Ryan, Gaborik, Nash, Richards, Carter) have included a player with Shattenkirk's value. One counter to that is that even if that holds true for what other teams offer, they might offer high-end prospect defensemen that the Blues cannot, so the Blues might have to outbid such offers.
Does Philly want a top 4 puck moving D-man for Giroux is the million dollar question. We don't have anyone internally that can step into Shattenkirk's role or play his minutes unless we either A) Get a D-man back from Philly or B) Make a second trade with a different team. Streit might be an interesting addition to the team, I think he's the only D-man from Philly without a NTC. He has very similar, if not better, production offensively then Shatty. I know he's had a rep of not being the best defensively, but can't we give him the kind of sheltered 5v5 minutes we give Leopold?

So Giroux+Streit+mid-late round pick for Stewart, Berglund, Shattenkirk, 1st, prospect? Or, if the cap doesn't work, drop Berglund, add more picks/prospects.

That's an, "Old School Hockey Trade," and all that.

Steen-Backes-Oshie
Schwartz-Giroux-Tank
MPS-Roy-Sobotka
Morrow-Lapierre-Reaves

Porter/Crack

J-Bow-AP
Jackman-Streit
Leopold-Polak

Cole

Halak-Elliott

Our team gets smaller, but much more skilled.

I think Sobotka has solidified in the Blues' mind that he is a top 9 player. Maybe a 3rd line guy on most nights, but overall, he has no business being on the 4th line. That to me signifies that we can move someone else from our top 9 in a package and not really worry about our depth.

Just so everyone knows, I'm not advocating anything either way. I like the way our team looks, (Except I can't stand Berglund) and I'm happy we're winning. I just enjoy debating hypothetical situations.

BadgersandBlues is offline  
Old
11-04-2013, 11:08 AM
  #549
bleedblue1223
Fire Army
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 32,858
vCash: 50
If Army can pull off Berglund+Stewart+Schmaltz+1st, which is pretty comparable to the Nash deal, then we have to do it. I don't think Giroux's value is significantly higher, especially since he isn't looking like a consistent 90+ point center.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
11-04-2013, 11:17 AM
  #550
Alklha
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 14,183
vCash: 868
Flyers have no need for Berglund with Lecavalier, Schenn, Couturier and Laughton. I think Shattenkirk would be the only possible starting point.

Alklha is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:30 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.