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Stu. Is it time to drop the Magnificent?

View Poll Results: What say Stu?
Magnificent ******* 15 10.95%
Insignificant ******* 43 31.39%
******* 14 10.22%
Too soon to say 65 47.45%
Voters: 137. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-04-2013, 02:43 PM
  #201
CanadianHockey
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Kind of agree that scouting needs an overhaul. Stu has been mediocre, not great at drafting. My rule of thumb is that you should be averaging about two NHL calibre players per draft if you want to consider your team a good drafting team. I'm not sure Stu has done that in his time with the Oilers.

Going to do a quick, subjective comparison, from 2001 to 2009 (2001 is essentially Stu's first draft, and 2009 is the most recent draft that I'm comfortable projecting for).

Edmonton (13)
2001 - 2: Hemsky, Markkanen
2002 - 2: Stoll, Greene (Deslauriers)
2003 - 2: Brodziak, Stortini (Pouliot, Bodie)
2004 - 1: Dubnyk (Reddox, Schremp)
2005 - 1: Cogliano
2006 - 1: Petry (Peckham)
2007 - 1: Gagner (Omark)
2008 - 1: Eberle (Hartikainen)
2009 - 2: Paajarvi, Lander

Detroit (12):
2001 - 0
2002 - 4: Hudler, Fleischmann, Filppula, Ericsson
2003 - 2: Howard, Quincey
2004 - 1: Franzen
2005 - 2: Abdelkaeder, Helm (Kindl)
2006 - 1: Matthias, (Emmerton)
2007 - 1: B.Smith (Andersson)
2008 - 0 (McCollum, Nyquist)
2009 - 1: Tatar

Nashville (19):
2001 - 2: Hamhuis, Tootoo
2002 - 1: Upshall
2003 - 3: Suter, Klein, Weber (Sulzer)
2004 - 3: Radulov, Rinne, Santorelli
2005 - 2: Franson, Hornqvist
2006 - 0
2007 - 2: Blum, Spaling
2008 - 3: Wilson, Josi, Lindback
2009 - 3: Ellis, Smith, Bourque

Ottawa (18)
2001 - 5: Spezza, Gleason, Emery, Laich, Schubert (Bochenski)
2002 - 0
2003 - 2: Eaves, Elliott
2004 - 1: Meszaros (Regin)
2005 - 2: Lee, Greening
2006 - 2: Foligno, Condra (Gryba, Daugavins)
2007 - 0: (O'Brien)
2008 - 2: Karlsson, Z.Smith (Wiercioch, Borowiecki)
2009 - 3: Cowen, Silfverberg, Lehner

Obviously, these lists are fairly subjective, and inclusion mostly considered GP rather than quality of picks. Generally, ~200 GP for anyone before 07, ~150 GP for players from 07-08, and I was pretty subjective for 09. There are some exceptions for guys who were in the NCAA and look to be NHL regulars going forward (Greening, Condra, and B.Smith, for example), and for Radulov, who is clearly an NHL calibre player. Players in brackets were close to meeting my GP requirements.

Regardless, what is evident to me is that the better teams have been able to snag some impact players with later picks, which the Oilers haven't really been able to do (just Petry and Stoll outside the first round). They've also averaged about two picks per year, which matches my rule of thumb and provides good turnover to replenish the cupboard and enable trade options. The better teams also had a few draft years where they snagged multiple NHLers. Edmonton hasn't done that in a while. It's unclear if that trend is changing since Stu became head of amateur scouting in 07/08.

The positive: Edmonton consistently turns first round picks into NHL players. Dare I say that no Oiler 1st rounder has busted since Niinimaki and Pouliot in 02 and 03, and even then, Pouliot at least played 162 games in the NHL.

Not that surprising (for me, at least), but Detroit's drafting record is overstated. They've been fairly average since the late 90s/early 2000s, in part because they were consistently drafting at the end of each round. Ottawa's leanest years coincide with their most competitive, and Nashville's sole 'zero' season featured just five picks, including just one (56th, Geoffrion) in the top 100.

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Old
07-04-2013, 02:46 PM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggers View Post
There's a big difference between being involved in the process and being the shot-caller.

I'm not saying Stu is the be-all and end-all, but judging his performance as the head of scouting is premature.
Its the same group of guys. Everyone points the finger at KP, and yes, he sucks for sure, but the guys that were his eyes and ears are still the same for Stu as they were for KP.

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07-04-2013, 02:48 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
Meh they've been doing better without Prendergast trying to outsmart everyone with the first round pick. Hell if you look at our non-first round drafting history from 200-2007, it's not actually that bad. 2002 was an especially great haul with Greene/Stoll. Can this scouting staff do better? Absolutely. But they're much better than a certain team who had Mark Jankowski ranked #1 and Emile Poirire ranked top 10. We just need to add a few more reliable scouts, no need to boot everyone.
As I stated some of it.

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07-04-2013, 02:51 PM
  #204
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One thing to remember when judging the Oilers' early 2000s picks was the complete and utter gong show that the Oilers developmental system was then.

KLowe: "I know! This year we will have our own affiliate, then next year we'll pull the plug on it and loan out all of our prospects to affiliates that have vested interests in developing the prospects for other organizations! A winning combination! How can I be wrong? I have six... count 'em... six rings!"

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07-04-2013, 03:02 PM
  #205
CanadianHockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggers View Post
One thing to remember when judging the Oilers' early 2000s picks was the complete and utter gong show that the Oilers developmental system was then.

KLowe: "I know! This year we will have our own affiliate, then next year we'll pull the plug on it and loan out all of our prospects to affiliates that have vested interests in developing the prospects for other organizations! A winning combination! How can I be wrong? I have six... count 'em... six rings!"
Definitely, development is perhaps the most underrating aspect of NHL organizations. Everyone clamours over scouts and over draft day, but it's a long process from there until you actually see projects making the NHL. The problem is that trend hasn't changed since the Oilers stabilized the AHL team. There was really only one season with stability in the farm (07/08 with Buchberger in Springfield). The past two seasons may contribute to a changing trend in Oilers prospect development, as the Oilers are actually investing in OKC. Some interesting prospects in Marincin, Fedun, Musil and Lander.

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11-05-2013, 04:46 AM
  #206
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Stu must go

It seems to me that our season is over. One reason is that veterans are not leading and our best players are not playing (well). One big issue is that we don't have enough 2nd to 7th round picks in the roster. Tyler Pitlick and Anton Lander are only second or later round picks done by Stu in the roster.

I think Petry is 2nd (drafted before Stu), Arcobello and Schultz are FA signings.

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Old
11-05-2013, 04:51 AM
  #207
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I think we agreed to drop it awhile ago

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Old
11-05-2013, 10:53 AM
  #208
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Time to bring in some fresh eyes. Clean out some of the closet.

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11-05-2013, 10:59 AM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broilers View Post
It seems to me that our season is over. One reason is that veterans are not leading and our best players are not playing (well). One big issue is that we don't have enough 2nd to 7th round picks in the roster. Tyler Pitlick and Anton Lander are only second or later round picks done by Stu in the roster.

I think Petry is 2nd (drafted before Stu), Arcobello and Schultz are FA signings.
That is also pathetic

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Old
11-05-2013, 11:08 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
The Oilers need Stu and his group to bring it on draft day. This is an important draft.
I think that ship already sailed.

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