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2013 NHL Draft Thread IV (draft tracker post #1) (Mod note post #152)

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Old
06-28-2013, 06:06 PM
  #51
RDriesenUD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by major major View Post
I see the top 4 as being guys who could definitely play this coming year. It's unusual for Finns to come over that early so maybe Barkov will wait a year. Then there's a dozen or so players who could do it and play like competent rookies, but it might be better for their development to wait. I expect the total to be more than 4.
I think more than 4 could play in the NHL next year, but I think there are only about 4 who should.

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06-28-2013, 06:39 PM
  #52
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My rankings

1. Seth Jones - D
2. Nathan MacKinnon - C
3. Aleksander Barkov - C
4. Jonathan Drouin - LW
5. Elias Lindholm - C
6. Sean Monahan - C
7. Rasmus Ristolainen - D
8. Valeri Nichushkin - LW
9. Darnell Nurse - D
10. Hunter Shinkaruk - LW
11. Alexander Wennberg - C
12. Anthony Mantha - LW
13. Valentin Zykov - LW
14. Bo Horvat - C
15. Ryan Pulock - D
16. Max Domi - C
17. Kerby Rychel - LW
18. Morgan Klimchuk - LW
19. Zachary Fucale - G
20. Josh Morrissey - D
21. Curtis Lazar - RW
22. Frederik Gauthier - LW
23. Andre Burakovsky - LW
24. Nikita Zadorov - D
25. Ryan Hartman - RW
26. Adam Erne - LW
27. Laurent Dauphin - C
28. Robert Hagg - D
29. Emile Poirier - LW
30. J.T. Compher - LW
31. Ian McCoshen - D
32. Artturi Lehkonen - LW
33. Mirco Mueller - D
34. Michael McCarron - RW
35. Justin Bailey - RW
36. Samuel Morin - D
37. Madison Bowey - D
38. Jason Dickinson - C
39. Chris Bigras - D
40. Eric Comrie - G
41. Pavel Buchnevich - LW
42. Connor Hurley - C
43. Jimmy Lodge - C
44. Oliver Bjorkstrand - LW

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Old
06-28-2013, 07:39 PM
  #53
EspenK
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Originally Posted by Nanabijou View Post
Look at his #3 pick for 14.
How did he edit that? Another example of TGIF.

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06-28-2013, 08:24 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by major major View Post
Again is this just a height thing? Player's weights vary a lot across listings, but Crosby is 200ish, and Brule around 187, and Shinkaruk at 180. Domi is already 200ish, and could play at 5-9 210 the way he is built.
Shinkaruk is a LOT closer to 160 than he is 180 ... just FYI.

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I think the Avs are trolling everyone and will take Jones #1 overall.
Fixed for you...

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06-28-2013, 08:36 PM
  #55
Nanabijou
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Fixed for you...

I'll definitely take a friendly wager with you that the Avs take MacKinnon over Jones.

At least we've each held a consistent position on the issue for about a month now:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=571

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06-28-2013, 08:59 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Nanabijou View Post
I'll definitely take a friendly wager with you that the Avs take MacKinnon over Jones.

At least we've each held a consistent position on the issue for about a month now:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=571


For sure!

I'm absolutely not going to say that MacKinnon won't be picked first overall - it's just that Colorado needs a defenseman far more than they need another center.

With the "leaking" of MacKinnon being their guy, it's likely that this is what will happen. I simply can't get over the thought of them passing over an extremely rare breed of defenseman.

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06-28-2013, 09:00 PM
  #57
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To further our discussion ...

Since the Avalanche are poised to take the center, what would you realistically give up to take that pick at this point?

For me, a deal can't involve Ryan Murray, Boone Jenner, or more than three assets ... so I'm curious to see what your sentiments are at this point.

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06-28-2013, 09:07 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
To further our discussion ...

Since the Avalanche are poised to take the center, what would you realistically give up to take that pick at this point?

For me, a deal can't involve Ryan Murray, Boone Jenner, or more than three assets ... so I'm curious to see what your sentiments are at this point.
Hmm ill play! How about... Johansen, 14, 19

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06-28-2013, 09:16 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Kington87 View Post
Hmm ill play! How about... Johansen, 14, 19
From a Jacket standpoint, that deal makes little sense. For me, there's no way I give up Johansen PLUS our top two picks in the first round. A starting point for me, centered around Johansen, would be the 27th pick and the 44th pick. I would then adjust the 27th to the 19th, and if necessary, the 14th. I doubt I go any higher than Johansen, 19, and 27.

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06-28-2013, 10:09 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
From a Jacket standpoint, that deal makes little sense. For me, there's no way I give up Johansen PLUS our top two picks in the first round. A starting point for me, centered around Johansen, would be the 27th pick and the 44th pick. I would then adjust the 27th to the 19th, and if necessary, the 14th. I doubt I go any higher than Johansen, 19, and 27.
I HIGHLY doubt that would be enough to get to that point. Why would they give up a franchise center who can do next year what Johansen has done in 2 seasons if not more. Its going to take an overpayment. Calgary has already been rumored to try and trade all 3 picks to move up and that hasn't gone so well. So while the picks hold value 14+19+27< 1,2,3. Even with Joey in their, Jones, Mackinnon, Drouin and Barkov have far more potential to completely change an organization. I would do the deal, however I don't believe Avs would feel its anywhere close.

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06-28-2013, 10:25 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by slightlystewpid420 View Post
I HIGHLY doubt that would be enough to get to that point. Why would they give up a franchise center who can do next year what Johansen has done in 2 seasons if not more. Its going to take an overpayment. Calgary has already been rumored to try and trade all 3 picks to move up and that hasn't gone so well. So while the picks hold value 14+19+27< 1,2,3. Even with Joey in their, Jones, Mackinnon, Drouin and Barkov have far more potential to completely change an organization. I would do the deal, however I don't believe Avs would feel its anywhere close.
Okay....I'll play with the scenario.

Are all 3 picks worth Barkov at #4? Just asking.

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06-28-2013, 10:30 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
To further our discussion ...

Since the Avalanche are poised to take the center, what would you realistically give up to take that pick at this point?

For me, a deal can't involve Ryan Murray, Boone Jenner, or more than three assets ... so I'm curious to see what your sentiments are at this point.
Is Boone Jenner > Ryan Johansen? They are the same age roughly. One guy got rushed (stupidy) but looks like he belongs most the time while the other has been beating up on pups in the CHL. Shiny new to syndrome?

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06-28-2013, 10:45 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by slightlystewpid420 View Post
I HIGHLY doubt that would be enough to get to that point. Why would they give up a franchise center who can do next year what Johansen has done in 2 seasons if not more. Its going to take an overpayment. Calgary has already been rumored to try and trade all 3 picks to move up and that hasn't gone so well. So while the picks hold value 14+19+27< 1,2,3. Even with Joey in their, Jones, Mackinnon, Drouin and Barkov have far more potential to completely change an organization. I would do the deal, however I don't believe Avs would feel its anywhere close.
Devil's advocate:

Nathan MacKinnon becomes exactly what he's projected to be, an 80+ point, first line/franchise type center.

Pick 14 becomes Hunter Shinkaruk. Pick 19, Anthony Mantha, and pick 27, Ryan Hartman. Let's say two of those players reach their potential, or somewhere close - Shinkaruk and Hartman. Shinkaruk becomes a 60-70 point player, Hartman a hugely successful 50+ point second line wing, in the mold of Dustin Brown.

So Anthony Mantha becomes a complete miss ... but do you build your entire franchise around one player, or do you build your franchise with two players? Do you think the Carolina Hurricanes are better off with Eric Staal than the Philadelphia Kings are with Carter and Richards?

Saying a number 1 pick is worth more than a 14 pick is a very fair statement. Saying a number 1 pick is worth more than three first round picks is walking a rough line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
Is Boone Jenner > Ryan Johansen? They are the same age roughly. One guy got rushed (stupidy) but looks like he belongs most the time while the other has been beating up on pups in the CHL. Shiny new to syndrome?
No, I wouldn't say Boone Jenner is worth more than Ryan Johansen ... but I feel that Johansen may not meet his full potential with this franchise, whereas Jenner's leadership qualities and two-way play are an asset I don't want to see us give up. At least not before he sees an NHL game.

I'm definitely not in the camp of wanting to trade Ryan Johansen ... unless we get fair trade value for him, which, at this point, we aren't going to get.

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06-28-2013, 10:50 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Devil's advocate:

Nathan MacKinnon becomes exactly what he's projected to be, an 80+ point, first line/franchise type center.

Pick 14 becomes Hunter Shinkaruk. Pick 19, Anthony Mantha, and pick 27, Ryan Hartman. Let's say two of those players reach their potential, or somewhere close - Shinkaruk and Hartman. Shinkaruk becomes a 60-70 point player, Hartman a hugely successful 50+ point second line wing, in the mold of Dustin Brown.

So Anthony Mantha becomes a complete miss ... but do you build your entire franchise around one player, or do you build your franchise with two players? Do you think the Carolina Hurricanes are better off with Eric Staal than the Philadelphia Kings are with Carter and Richards?

Saying a number 1 pick is worth more than a 14 pick is a very fair statement. Saying a number 1 pick is worth more than three first round picks is walking a rough line.



No, I wouldn't say Boone Jenner is worth more than Ryan Johansen ... but I feel that Johansen may not meet his full potential with this franchise, whereas Jenner's leadership qualities and two-way play are an asset I don't want to see us give up. At least not before he sees an NHL game.

I'm definitely not in the camp of wanting to trade Ryan Johansen ... unless we get fair trade value for him, which, at this point, we aren't going to get.
But at the same time you have to take into account what becomes of Johansen as well. If the attitude problem is real and his career suffers for it than its a good trade. But if he blossoms and 2/3 of those picks reach their potential than we lose out obviously. I really want to see us with at least 2 picks in this draft. If this really is similar to 03, we can't afford to.

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Old
06-28-2013, 10:50 PM
  #65
Nanabijou
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I'm definitely not in the camp of wanting to trade Ryan Johansen ... unless we get fair trade value for him, which, at this point, we aren't going to get.
Out of curiosity, what pick in this year's draft (don't worry about the team that holds the pick) would you consider the street market value for Johansen in a straight-up trade?

I don't do well at these types of appraisals, so I'm not testing you - just asking.

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06-28-2013, 11:02 PM
  #66
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Out of curiosity, what pick in this year's draft (don't worry about the team that holds the pick) would you consider the street market value for Johansen in a straight-up trade?

I don't do well at these types of appraisals, so I'm not testing you - just asking.
I'd give him a 9th. But if we do take into account team's preferences Edmonton might be willing to move the 7th for him.

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06-28-2013, 11:06 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Devil's advocate:

Nathan MacKinnon becomes exactly what he's projected to be, an 80+ point, first line/franchise type center.

Pick 14 becomes Hunter Shinkaruk. Pick 19, Anthony Mantha, and pick 27, Ryan Hartman. Let's say two of those players reach their potential, or somewhere close - Shinkaruk and Hartman. Shinkaruk becomes a 60-70 point player, Hartman a hugely successful 50+ point second line wing, in the mold of Dustin Brown.

So Anthony Mantha becomes a complete miss ... but do you build your entire franchise around one player, or do you build your franchise with two players? Do you think the Carolina Hurricanes are better off with Eric Staal than the Philadelphia Kings are with Carter and Richards?

Saying a number 1 pick is worth more than a 14 pick is a very fair statement. Saying a number 1 pick is worth more than three first round picks is walking a rough line.



No, I wouldn't say Boone Jenner is worth more than Ryan Johansen ... but I feel that Johansen may not meet his full potential with this franchise, whereas Jenner's leadership qualities and two-way play are an asset I don't want to see us give up. At least not before he sees an NHL game.

I'm definitely not in the camp of wanting to trade Ryan Johansen ... unless we get fair trade value for him, which, at this point, we aren't going to get.
Why? Did that first year scar him that much? Serious question, no disrespect. Or does he hate the city?

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06-28-2013, 11:09 PM
  #68
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Why? Did that first year scar him that much? Serious question, no disrespect. Or does he hate the city?
Because people are overreacting to his benching in the AHL playoffs

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06-28-2013, 11:30 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Nanabijou View Post
Out of curiosity, what pick in this year's draft (don't worry about the team that holds the pick) would you consider the street market value for Johansen in a straight-up trade?

I don't do well at these types of appraisals, so I'm not testing you - just asking.
6th, in my opinion.

The top 5 guys available - MacKinnon, Jones, Drouin, Barkov, Lindholm are all cornerstone building blocks. Johansen at this point would be considered a "next tier" prospect, so in roughly the same range as Monahan or Nurse.

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Why? Did that first year scar him that much? Serious question, no disrespect. Or does he hate the city?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Because people are overreacting to his benching in the AHL playoffs
To answer your question, I'll quote CBJB16 ... people are definitely overreacting to the benching in the playoffs, I agree wholeheartedly. He's a 20 year old kid, typically they struggle, and things like this happen. What happens from here is one of a few things, and this is why I have my concerns.

1. (hopefully) Ryan takes this as a sign that he needs to work harder, improve his game some more, and put his nose to the grindstone to become a dominant top 2 NHL center.

2. He gets down on himself, thinks he can't ever become what he was drafted to be, and stays the type of player he is. Nothing wrong with that - he showed some real solid shutdown potential.

3. He completely gives up with this franchise, thinking it was unfair and that he deserves better, after being the #4 overall pick. He goes the opposite direction and shuts down.

While these are the "extreme" examples, I feel that Johansen is still a budding young player. The question is, does he step up and set a good example for the other young players coming in? Or, does he get the primadonna attitude that we've all seen so much of during our time watching the young draft picks on this team?

I've seen the kid firsthand ... I know how good he can be, and I know he can still reach that potential. Either we're completely patient and bring him along the right way, or we cut our ties right now. The decision has to be made this weekend, in my opinion.

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06-29-2013, 12:12 AM
  #70
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I bet Jarmo drafts three defenseman in the first just so that I have to eat crow for all my *****ing about defense picks in the mock draft forum.

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06-29-2013, 05:02 AM
  #71
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For sure!

I'm absolutely not going to say that MacKinnon won't be picked first overall - it's just that Colorado needs a defenseman far more than they need another center.

With the "leaking" of MacKinnon being their guy, it's likely that this is what will happen. I simply can't get over the thought of them passing over an extremely rare breed of defenseman.
I agree with you on this actually. The fact that practically everyday someone within the Avs organization feels thay have to tell everyone they're taking MacKinnon tells me they're posturing & trying to sell it too hard.

If Sakic would've came out said "we like Mackinnon" and been done with it, then yeah, that's who they are taking. But it's been Sakic, Roy, Avs owner, Sakic again, Sakic yet again, Avs owner again in like the last 10 days.

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06-29-2013, 05:22 AM
  #72
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I agree with you on this actually. The fact that practically everyday someone within the Avs organization feels thay have to tell everyone they're taking MacKinnon tells me they're posturing & trying to sell it too hard.

If Sakic would've came out said "we like Mackinnon" and been done with it, then yeah, that's who they are taking. But it's been Sakic, Roy, Avs owner, Sakic again, Sakic yet again, Avs owner again in like the last 10 days.
That's bc they want a change in that area.

Fans have been complaining for years that they have operated more secretly than KGB.

Friedman has mentioned often, very often, on his 30 thoughts column that 'he's hesitant to talk about Avs as they don't give up anything'.

Also Avs biggest beat writer was writing articles about Jones for thrice a day since they won the lottery.. hype was getting kind of big, too big. Ofc when the info came out this beat writer said that 'Jones for Avs had became so overblown, lol.

Anyway... I thought they would take Jones.. but at the moment, can't see it.

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06-29-2013, 07:14 AM
  #73
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I bet Jarmo drafts three defenseman in the first just so that I have to eat crow for all my *****ing about defense picks in the mock draft forum.
If so maybe you and I could get the two for 20 deal at Applebee's

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06-29-2013, 07:19 AM
  #74
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If so maybe you and I could get the two for 20 deal at Applebee's
You would need several tables to accommodate everyone here that agrees with you.

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06-29-2013, 08:22 AM
  #75
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Zadorov doesn't impress me that much, some guys just don't appeal relative to others. As for Yakimov he is a significant way down list c for a reason but I think he could be something useful potentially.
Yakimov will be a late 2nd round pick at best in my opinion. There really isn't much there beyond his size. While he did show some improvement in his overall game this year it still sounds like his skating is a train wreck and that impacts his skill leverl to boot.

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