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Blues re-sign Kevin Shattenkirk

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06-26-2013, 04:11 PM
  #26
jarmoismyhero
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Good deal for Blues...Some people seem to be upset about the term however 4 years is such a long time in sports that I think its the perfect length for a team that cannot make mistakes on long term singings. AP I expect to be about 5 or 6 years at 6 million.

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06-26-2013, 04:14 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeydoug View Post
Voynov isn't arbitration eligible and has half the NHL experience. Voynov has the lowered cap hit because Lombardi skipped the bridge contract and tied it all together.
But you're ignoring that Voynov is clearly the superior player. So what if he hasn't played as many NHL games? Better is better. Literally if you'd swapped the two players the Blues beat the Kings, that's how much better Voynov is right now.

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06-26-2013, 04:18 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
But you're ignoring that Voynov is clearly the superior player. So what if he hasn't played as many NHL games? Better is better. Literally if you'd swapped the two players the Blues beat the Kings, that's how much better Voynov is right now.
It's not that drastic, but Voynov is the better player. Kings should be very happy with the contract.

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06-26-2013, 04:21 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
We seriously know nothing about hockey and our players...
We are a bunch of clueless Blues fans who obviously don't know that we can't possibly keep all of our RFA's.

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06-26-2013, 04:37 PM
  #30
CitizenSnips
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Well that is at least one more load off my mind.

Great deal!!!

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06-26-2013, 04:43 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
But you're ignoring that Voynov is clearly the superior player. So what if he hasn't played as many NHL games? Better is better. Literally if you'd swapped the two players the Blues beat the Kings, that's how much better Voynov is right now.
Sorry dude, I don't agree. If you would have swapped them out we would have won? I agree about the games played but that is a crazy statement. He played a great series but that doesn't mean he would have made the difference in the series nor does it mean he is a better player.

I would say it is very very close between the two and they both have their skills and flaws but I don't think it is a clear as you say it is.

I will say I believe the Kings got a better deal though

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06-26-2013, 04:52 PM
  #32
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blues still have 16.450 million in cap space after this deal. so probably around 5 million after petro and Stewart resign.

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06-26-2013, 04:59 PM
  #33
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We still have Allen, Petro, Russell, Stewart, and possibly Leopold to resign. We're not out of the woods yet, but these last couple of days are a step in the right direction.

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06-26-2013, 05:01 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by CitizenSnips View Post
Sorry dude, I don't agree. If you would have swapped them out we would have won? I agree about the games played but that is a crazy statement. He played a great series but that doesn't mean he would have made the difference in the series nor does it mean he is a better player.

I would say it is very very close between the two and they both have their skills and flaws but I don't think it is a clear as you say it is.

I will say I believe the Kings got a better deal though
I agree. Voynov had a ton of AHL seasoning and was perfectly positioned to have success early in his NHL career whereas Shattenkirk was very much learning how to defend on the fly. That's why I keep saying how much room he still has for growth when you combine his immense natural gifts with the lessons he's learned over the last two seasons under the tutelage of Brad Shaw and from his post-season experiences.

Voynov's horrific decision to pinch led to the Kane OT winner in Game 5, by the way.

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06-26-2013, 05:08 PM
  #35
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The overlooked fact is that Shatty's game changed completely when Redden and Leopold came into the fold. He didn't seem to have the puck on his stick as often, and I didn't see him jumping up near as much as I used to. I really hope they find him the perfect partner, if it isn't Jackman.

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06-26-2013, 05:09 PM
  #36
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YEAH! Shattdeuces!

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06-26-2013, 05:16 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
The overlooked fact is that Shatty's game changed completely when Redden and Leopold came into the fold. He didn't seem to have the puck on his stick as often, and I didn't see him jumping up near as much as I used to. I really hope they find him the perfect partner, if it isn't Jackman.
I think he and Leopold could yet develop some chemistry. There was a disappointing lack of practice time after the trade deadline. I also think the Bouwmeester/Pietro pairing will look more formidable next season. (Not sure we'll actually re-sign Leopold, but I wouldn't conclude that pairing would look so out of sync with more preparation.)

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06-26-2013, 05:22 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
I think he and Leopold could yet develop some chemistry. There was a disappointing lack of practice time after the trade deadline. I also think the Bouwmeester/Pietro pairing will look more formidable next season. (Not sure we'll actually re-sign Leopold, but I wouldn't conclude that pairing would look so out of sync with more preparation.)
It's the Jackman-Polak pairing that really annoyed me. They can't move the puck to save their lives.

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06-26-2013, 05:51 PM
  #39
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Shattenkirks worth is his PP abilities..his 5v5 offensive play was top15 in the league this past season too

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06-26-2013, 06:10 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
But you're ignoring that Voynov is clearly the superior player. So what if he hasn't played as many NHL games? Better is better. Literally if you'd swapped the two players the Blues beat the Kings, that's how much better Voynov is right now.
He's not "clearly" superior yet, but I think he could be. Sutter hid him since he took over. He's an excellent talent but the league hasn't adjusted to him yet. Age and experience matter during most negotiations. Voynov's contract was driven down because of his inexperience and RFA class compared to Shattenkirk. Shattenkirk has sustained production through 3 years and more than 1 coach/system and he was arbitration eligible.

I'm not saying I think Shattenkirk should be paid more, because I don't. I just thought the market trends and demand for capable offensive defensemen would have driven up the price and years on the contract. I thought STL would end up having to pay more to retain him, it's good for them that they didn't.

I think it's an excellent job by Armstrong to get him on that cap hit for that many years.

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06-26-2013, 06:13 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by CitizenSnips View Post
Sorry dude, I don't agree. If you would have swapped them out we would have won? I agree about the games played but that is a crazy statement. He played a great series but that doesn't mean he would have made the difference in the series nor does it mean he is a better player.

I would say it is very very close between the two and they both have their skills and flaws but I don't think it is a clear as you say it is.

I will say I believe the Kings got a better deal though
I was surprised Lombardi didn't sign him to a shorter bridge deal. It may not have been an option. I think this will be a very cost effective contract as well as Shattenkirk's. I'm not Shattenkirk's biggest fan, but I think his contract might be better at the end of the day and I think it keeps Armstrong a little more flexible in the short and long term.

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06-26-2013, 07:32 PM
  #42
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Voynov was a huge part of a Cup run last year and killed us in both series. It's just that I value this kind of performance far more than regular season work. So speaking from that perspective, we can say Shattenkirk was terrible last year and this year wasn't horrible but made no impact. Meanwhile Voynov hurt the Blues both playoff years. That's definitely a big enough swing in postseason play that if you flip the two guys we win. Voynov scores for us in Game 3 OT, for example.

And by the way I'm fine with the contract, just sort of explaining my position on Shattenkirk v. Voynov.

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06-26-2013, 08:31 PM
  #43
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People over at Blues Talk (I know the place is full of idiots) seem to think AP will sign for 2 year deal. Does anyone actually think either side would want that? I really do not see the Blues wanting to go down that path, I kinda understand why AP may but I still think its in his best interest to try and get at least a 5 year deal at about 6 per. If the Blues are forced into a 2 year deal that will suck.

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06-26-2013, 08:41 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Voynov was a huge part of a Cup run last year and killed us in both series. It's just that I value this kind of performance far more than regular season work. So speaking from that perspective, we can say Shattenkirk was terrible last year and this year wasn't horrible but made no impact. Meanwhile Voynov hurt the Blues both playoff years. That's definitely a big enough swing in postseason play that if you flip the two guys we win. Voynov scores for us in Game 3 OT, for example.

And by the way I'm fine with the contract, just sort of explaining my position on Shattenkirk v. Voynov.
I agree with your assessment regarding Shattenkirk's post-season impact. However, I think this year was a different root cause. Last season, he was overwhelmed by the physicality of the playoffs, and didn't respond well. This season, I think he never looked comfortable with his defensive partner. However, I don't think he got pushed around or taken off his game easily. It would be nice to see what he can do in a series that's not against the freaking Kings, too.

Bottom line, I think there's progress and a reason to expect him to improve his post-season performance. But the Blues as a whole have lacked that core of guys that turn it up a notch in the post-season.

I'm not aware of any word confirming Backes was playing nicked up, but he's a guy that I kind of expect to turn it up. Steen is about the only player I can point to that really looked like his heart was on his sleeve every shift. There were a lot of "solid" performances, but he's the only guy that reminds me of the way the Bruins crank it up. I hope that's just a matter of maturing as a young player. We see lots of teams go through that, where they have to learn how to win in the post-season. I sure hope the Blues learned something this year. In a lot of ways it feels like a step back.

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06-26-2013, 08:45 PM
  #45
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If we have Voynov and the Kings have Shattenkirk, we win this year. Hands down no question. Not so much last year, but easily this year.

So the fact that Voynov got less money and longer term (Yes, he's a year younger/has one less year of experience) does piss me off. And whomever said they were coming off different contracts is wrong. Both were coming off ELCs. Neither one had a bridge contract.

Look, it's a good contract. It's just that Armstrong has almost always wowed us, and when you add in the Voynov contract, I can't help but feel a little disappointed.

If we find out that AP is signed for 8 years at 5.5-6 though, I'll totally accept this contract as a sacrifice to the hockey gods.

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06-26-2013, 08:51 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by BadgersandBlues View Post
If we have Voynov and the Kings have Shattenkirk, we win this year. Hands down no question. Not so much last year, but easily this year.

So the fact that Voynov got less money and longer term (Yes, he's a year younger/has one less year of experience) does piss me off. And whomever said they were coming off different contracts is wrong. Both were coming off ELCs. Neither one had a bridge contract.

Look, it's a good contract. It's just that Armstrong has almost always wowed us, and when you add in the Voynov contract, I can't help but feel a little disappointed.

If we find out that AP is signed for 8 years at 5.5-6 though, I'll totally accept this contract as a sacrifice to the hockey gods.
Shattenkirk wasn't the reason we lost and Voynov doesn't offer what we lacked in that series.

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06-26-2013, 09:54 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Shattenkirk wasn't the reason we lost and Voynov doesn't offer what we lacked in that series.
This

I don't think a single swap of one player either year would have made the difference in either series. I understand your point of view and Voynov has had a much better playoff career than Shattenkirk but I do not think that makes him an all around better defenseman. The contract is great for Shattenkirk and if Voynov continues to develop on pace, his will be better, there is no denying that.

Either way, we could have swapped Stewart for Carter and it wouldn't have guaranteed a "win" in the series, it just shows that their team is a little ahead of ours in the playoff performance. We will get there though and I believe this will be a great contract for every year of it. Looking as a comparison against Voynov will not change my mind on that in the same way a comparison against Streit will not either

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06-26-2013, 10:10 PM
  #48
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I see voynov being the better defensive player at this point. But I still think Shattenkirk is better offensively. Overall I think it's a push. I just wish hith would have left Jackman with Shattenkirk. That was a fantastic pairing that let each player play to his own strengths.

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06-26-2013, 11:30 PM
  #49
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If Voynov were a Blue he would have been shooting at Jonathan Quick.........Ya think that might make a slight difference?

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06-26-2013, 11:58 PM
  #50
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TSN pisses me off again!
No terms on the Shatty contract, Berglund scored 188 points in 188 games...at least there is a big report about Pens, Leafs and Letang...

Edit: now they have at least corrected the Berg-stats.

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