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Old
06-18-2005, 11:43 PM
  #26
signalIInoise
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Vanek-Drury-(Hartnell||Cole)
Hecht-Briere-Dumont
Connolly-Roy-Afinogenov
Pyatt-Mair-Grier
Peters

Kalinin-Rathje
D.Boyle-McKee
Brown-Tallinder
Jillson

Noronen
Miller

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Old
06-19-2005, 12:48 AM
  #27
Peter Griffin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JStone87
Then I would make a real strong push toget a guy like Matthias Ohlund. Vancouver does have an a lotof defensemen, it could happen right?
Good luck prying Ohlund from the Canucks, he's not going anywhere soon. Jovanovski on the other hand may be offered around the league, but ONLY if the Canucks sign Niedermayer first, if not, I can't see the Canucks considering the option of trading him. Any interest in Jovo? He'll turn 29 this month and is scheduled to make $5.25 mil next season($4 mil after rollback). The Canucks would likely be looking for younger, cheaper players in return.

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Old
06-19-2005, 10:00 AM
  #28
Rowley Birkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JStone87
Pavel Trnka - solid defensive defenseman 5/6
Adam Deadmarsh - has had injury problems,but the sabres lack a real power forward.
Adrian Aucoin - good all around d-man to replace Zhitnik

Then I would make a real strong push toget a guy like Matthias Ohlund. Vancouver does have an a lotof defensemen, it could happen right?

Hecht Briere Dumont
Vanek Drury Deadmarsh
Kotalik Roy Afinogenov
Peters Mair Grier

Goodbye Satan, Connolly, Pyatt, Boulton

Aucoin Ohlund
Trnka Mckee
Brown Tallinder

Cya Zhitnik, Jillson, Campbell

Noronen
Miller

Trade Biron
no offense, but thats horrible. For a kick off, Ohlund isn't leaving Vancouver. Secondly, Trnka is not good enough to be on a 2nd pairing. I don't see us getting Aucoin {too much interest from elsewhere}, and where is Kalinin? Jillson is very much a guy i would like to keep around also.

Up front, Deadmarsh is a no-no, too injury prone, and not skilled enough for the price he would be asking for. And I don't see Vanek on a top2 straight away either. And where is Miro? If we lose him, we need a suitable replacement.

Goalie situation looks nice tho Not sure we'd get much for Marty but...

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Old
06-19-2005, 10:13 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin
no offense, but thats horrible. For a kick off, Ohlund isn't leaving Vancouver. Secondly, Trnka is not good enough to be on a 2nd pairing. I don't see us getting Aucoin {too much interest from elsewhere}, and where is Kalinin? Jillson is very much a guy i would like to keep around also.

Up front, Deadmarsh is a no-no, too injury prone, and not skilled enough for the price he would be asking for. And I don't see Vanek on a top2 straight away either. And where is Miro? If we lose him, we need a suitable replacement.

Goalie situation looks nice tho Not sure we'd get much for Marty but...
Honestly, I'm not very fond of Jillson. From all accounts he had a sub-par season in Rochester. When is he going to mature and become that top pairing defenseman so many scouts thought he would be? The guy will be turning 25 soon, if he hasn't already.

I'd like to see the Sabres make a play for an Adam Foote and/or Adrian Aucoin. True a lot of other teams will be make a go at these guys, but it's not impossible, and certainly realistic that one of these guys could sign with the Sabres. Buffalo has been gearing up for a capped NHL for a couple of seasons now. IMO, We're in a great position to make a push at some of these free agents.

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Old
06-19-2005, 10:21 AM
  #30
Rowley Birkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawerchuk10
How about Olie Jokien (sp?) from FLA? He'd fit in nice. Think we could muster a trade?
No. As much as id love to see the Joker in Sabres colours, it ain't happening. As a side note on the NHL games, i always trade for him and Hossa, and the Satan-Jokinen-Hossa line is always good enough for 100+ points each if they stay healthy

I'm not sure we have what Florida wants, i am guessing that if we were to move for him, Vanek would have to be included.

I agree with everything else you say BTW.

Back on topic tho, and my personal outlook for the Sabres. This is more wishful thinking than anything else, but realistic:

First in nets, im with the concencus here, split time 60/40 or 70/30 between Noronen and Miller. Trade Marty for whatever we can get... its a buyers market for goalies, but he has shown good form, i think we could get something like a 2nd/3rd round pick + a risky/mediocre prospect. However, if we get a good offer for Miller, i would still take it.

Next the blueline. I'm with signal.... Rathje would be a nice fit alongside Kalinin. I can see us making a move for this guy. Next i would make a move for Toni Lydman, not sure what it would take, but i'm sure we have enough surplus forwards/prospects to make Calgary deal. For the purpose of this, lets suggest that Pyatt and/or Kotalik is enough, maybe packaged with a decent pick or prospect. Let Z leave, and trade/dump Campbell, Fitzpatrick and so on.

Finally up front. First of all, i am usually one of these guys who says we must keep Miro, so i will be no different here. It would be pretty cool if we could add another top level player to play with him, so lets go out and get Kovalev. I think that gives us enough firepower.

Saying we are to sign/resign three big names {Rathje, Miro, Kovalev} is probably being optimistic, but we have one of the lower payrolls in the league, and have a decent young squad, one or two pieces away from a legitimate playoff contender.

Satan-Briere-Kovalev
Hecht-Drury-Dumont
Vanek-Roy-Afinogenov
Mair/Peters-Gaustad/Mair-Grier

Kalinin-Rathje
Lydman-McKee/Jillson
Brown-Jillson/McKee

Noronen
Miller

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Old
06-19-2005, 10:34 AM
  #31
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If the Two line pass is allowed. You will need at least one D-man in Each Pair, who can skate and recover like Zhitnik. You will need speed on D. The Tag up rule will also make skating agility a priority on d.

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Old
06-20-2005, 12:37 AM
  #32
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The Sabres do have a lot of affordable, talented forwards to use in trades, but ...

IMO Rathje, Lydman and Timonen are not options. They are too valuable to their resective teams to be let go.

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Old
06-20-2005, 01:39 AM
  #33
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I would seriously consider a trade for any of the current Flames defenseman. Each one of them proved they have unique roles, all of which would suit us here:

Mike Commodore: fearless, young, high potential...might be tough to pry out.

Jordan Leopold: obvious reasons, will be a premier league defenseman

Steve Montador: also young, tough, and proved he has some clutch in him in the Flames' recent playoff run

Andrew Ference: great skater, good hands, quick..high risk, but compliments a James Patrick well.

Robyn Regehr: not happening

Rhett Warrener: we know already how solid he is.

Toni Lydman: Physical, gets decent point totals for a D

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Old
06-20-2005, 01:40 AM
  #34
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not to mention Dion Phaneuf in the system, ready to explode...someone has to be available out of those 8!

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Old
06-20-2005, 02:33 AM
  #35
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If the Kings are out of contention at the deadline, look for them to move Miller before Norstrom, but if the right deal comes along, I'm sure they'd move Matty.

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Old
06-20-2005, 03:03 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuddy27
I would seriously consider a trade for any of the current Flames defenseman. Each one of them proved they have unique roles, all of which would suit us here:

Mike Commodore: fearless, young, high potential...might be tough to pry out.

Jordan Leopold: obvious reasons, will be a premier league defenseman

Steve Montador: also young, tough, and proved he has some clutch in him in the Flames' recent playoff run

Andrew Ference: great skater, good hands, quick..high risk, but compliments a James Patrick well.

Robyn Regehr: not happening

Rhett Warrener: we know already how solid he is.

Toni Lydman: Physical, gets decent point totals for a D
I would love ANY of these guys. The Flames have some serious depth on D...like you said, someone has to be available. I'm thinking Montador might be the easiest to get, but Lydman would be the best value. A guy like Montador could pair with Tallinder on the 2nd D pairing, but I think Lydman has the potential to pair with Kalinin on the 1st D pairing, but I'm not sure if he's that high on CGY's defensive depth chart with so many capable guys.

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Old
06-20-2005, 04:12 PM
  #37
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Just trying to gauge value, who would you guys offer for Norstrom? For Miller?

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Old
06-20-2005, 11:37 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lecherous
I would love ANY of these guys. The Flames have some serious depth on D...like you said, someone has to be available. I'm thinking Montador might be the easiest to get, but Lydman would be the best value. A guy like Montador could pair with Tallinder on the 2nd D pairing, but I think Lydman has the potential to pair with Kalinin on the 1st D pairing, but I'm not sure if he's that high on CGY's defensive depth chart with so many capable guys.
Calgary's defense is ranked something like this (not pairings):

LD RD
Lydman Regehr
Leopold Warrener
Phaneuf Ference
Eriksson Montador
Evans Commodore

Commodore and Montador are still battling for the 7th spot. Getting Commodore wouldn't be that expensive. Also, you'd be surprised at where Calgary fans rate Lydman. He's very valuable to him. Calgary are the sort of team that sends out 3 good pairings rather than loading up the minutes on a couple of guys. Ference led the team in ice time for much of the playoffs, though everyone here would consider Regehr the clear cut #1 d-man on the team.

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Old
06-21-2005, 09:02 AM
  #39
Rowley Birkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45
Just trying to gauge value, who would you guys offer for Norstrom? For Miller?
Me personally?

nothing for Miller, with Norstrom it would depend on contract status.

As for Calgary, we are good trading partners. Lydman is moveable, and a good fit in Buffalo IMO. With my proposal above, i went with the theory of one big tough defensive guy {Rathje, McKee}, and one quicker, more offensive guy, who can still hit {Kalinin, Lydman} on each pairing.

I really like Commodore, but he is a 5/6th guy at best.

I would also try to replace McKee as i believe his contract is too big, but he doesn't have much value because of this, i don't think.

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Old
06-21-2005, 10:38 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuddy27
Mike Commodore: fearless, young, high potential...might be tough to pry out.
No reason to believe he couldn't be had. Commodore's already been traded twice, so a third time wouldn't be a huge stretch. He did benefit from a year in the AHL. He'd be helpful to an organization, that could give him more time to play than the Flames would be able to offer.

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Old
06-21-2005, 11:23 AM
  #41
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How about a trade revolving around Thorburn for either Montador or Commodore? Thorburn is developing as a proverbial "Sutter-type" and could be a nice fit down the middle in Calgary and any young, capable, physical defenseman is welcomed in Buffalo. Draft picks might have to be swapped but just a thought...

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Old
06-21-2005, 12:55 PM
  #42
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What would Brian Rafalski cost on the open market? If we let Satan walk, could he be a possibility? I think our defense would gain instant credibility with a Kalinin/Rafalski pairing.

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Old
06-21-2005, 01:07 PM
  #43
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I'm not sold on Rafalski being a good fit with the Sabres. I don't think he'd get a chance to use his talents to his full potential. Someone like Lydman would be almost ideal to pair with Kalinin and I would try to get him even if it took a decent package to do so.

Thorburn for Montador and maybe a late pick/longshot prospect sounds like a really good idea and would work out very well for both teams. Not sure what kind of larger package we could do to get Lydman though. Calgary fans? As long as it doesn't include Miller, Vanek, Hecht, or Kalinin and it should be an interesting deal.

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Old
06-21-2005, 01:24 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo
How about a trade revolving around Thorburn for either Montador or Commodore? Thorburn is developing as a proverbial "Sutter-type" and could be a nice fit down the middle in Calgary and any young, capable, physical defenseman is welcomed in Buffalo. Draft picks might have to be swapped but just a thought...

Maybe I'm overrating Thorburn a bit but I think he's got a bit more value than either of those players.

You did mention a draft pick swap but if I'm going to start selling off some of the forward assets in this organization I'd rather set my sights a little higher.

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Old
06-21-2005, 09:34 PM
  #45
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I expect Zhitnik back. Buffalo had the best offer on the table for him before the lockout and I suspect that will be the case again.

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Old
06-22-2005, 12:54 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabreHomer007
Maybe I'm overrating Thorburn a bit but I think he's got a bit more value than either of those players.

You did mention a draft pick swap but if I'm going to start selling off some of the forward assets in this organization I'd rather set my sights a little higher.
I agree. Montador and Commodore are servicable defensemen but I wouldn't be throwing away a quality prospect for them. I would rather keep Thorburn and go with a combination of Campbell/Brown and a verteran UFA like Bombadir if those are my two choices.

Montador/Commodore wouldn't be worth more than a 3rd or 4th rounder at most, particularly with a flooded UFA market.

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Old
06-23-2005, 01:31 AM
  #47
Reaper45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin
Me personally?

nothing for Miller, with Norstrom it would depend on contract status.
I believe Matty has 2 years at like 2.6 million per after the 24% rollback.

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Old
06-23-2005, 12:57 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo
How about a trade revolving around Thorburn for either Montador or Commodore? Thorburn is developing as a proverbial "Sutter-type" and could be a nice fit down the middle in Calgary and any young, capable, physical defenseman is welcomed in Buffalo. Draft picks might have to be swapped but just a thought...
I don't think those guys are any better than what can be found on the waiver wire or the low end free agents. Are they really any better than Fitzpatrick or Janik, or are they the beneficiaries of the great goaltending Calgary had? We've seen a lot of players look very good in Buffalo when Hasek was the man that turned out to be marginal NHL'ers on other teams, and in Buffalo after Hasek left. Janik had almost 200 PIM last season and can be a physical presence. Nathan Paetsch has more raw talent than any of the guys mentioned and accumulated 150 PIM. He may have the inside track as Buffalo's 7th dman because he can also play wing.

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Old
06-23-2005, 01:25 PM
  #49
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Some more names to throw around....

Sandis Ozolinsh - UFA, PP QB. Not the best defensively, and is a LH shot, but I think he would do well as a 3rd pairing specialist.

Shawn McEachern A good two way role player type. Buffalo is def. lacking veteran leadership in the fowards, would be a good 3rd line addition.

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Old
06-23-2005, 02:47 PM
  #50
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Adrian Aucoin could be on the outs on the Island. If the Sabres are looking to retool/upgrade on defense, he's a fairly complete RD.

I'd like to see Zhitnik back and for them to make sure Kalinin is back, since he supplanted Alexei as the #1 at the end of '04.

The defense could look:

Kalinin - Aucoin
Zhitnik - Tallinder
McKee - Brown
(Fitzpatrick/Janik).

I like that unit for the most part with a third pair more rugged and two decent pairs that can move the puck in a variety of ways while providing decent defensive zone coverage. It would also allow them to spot McKee into more of a PK roll, and leave him with someone who helps him find his cohones. Granted, it's a little thin in if there is an injury or two.

Letting Satan walk makes sense if Buff is correct about the attitude. There are a number of players who could be decent, cheap pickups in the new economic model. I wouldn't mind seeing someone like Jason Allison offered a low-end contract if he's out of the concussion woods, since it would be relatively low-risk monetarily.

Back to class......

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