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Simmons - Leafs to be UFA shoppers

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Old
06-07-2005, 08:51 AM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Army
It's all good. That Wellwood/Higgins thread just might be my favourite thread of all time here at HF.
Mine as well .

The story is not finished yet and lets hope it has a happy ending because then part II of that story will reflect back on the opinions of Part I

The inability to get hardly anyone to see past the high draft pick necessity and Leaf bias was a lesson I will not soon forget..

My outlook is brighter then stated .. but this new CBA is really going to change the way the Leafs do business .. I waiting to see what Fergy can do ..

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06-07-2005, 08:51 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
I'm guessing it comes from a combination of my looking forward to the Leafs reaping what they've sown and you prefering to ignore this unpleasant reality.
Haha. If there's one thing that Sens and Habs fans like to do it's look forward to things.

The offseason- the only time of the year when the Sens and Habs are better than the Leafs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
Count on the Leafs taking a considerable drop in the standings if they go with the 6 rookie line-up. The short term pain should pay off, but would be much more worthwhile if the Leafs didn't have the 27th ranked group of prospects to restock with.
Actually 3 of the rookies I used were not even considered in that "27th ranked group".

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Old
06-07-2005, 08:58 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
http://www.torontomapleleafs.com/mee....ml?inSystem=1

This isn't completely up to date, but these guys have actually watched the players.
1) I asked for a relative ranking, not a laundry list.

2) Citing "torontomapleleafs.com" as an unbiased source???

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Old
06-07-2005, 09:09 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
I'm guessing it comes from a combination of my looking forward to the Leafs reaping what they've sown and you prefering to ignore this unpleasant reality.

Count on the Leafs taking a considerable drop in the standings if they go with the 6 rookie line-up. The short term pain should pay off, but would be much more worthwhile if the Leafs didn't have the 27th ranked group of prospects to restock with. .
That's really going to hurt even more then the next time the Leafs eliminate the Sens in the playoffs.

However you will always have your drafting and player development to stand behind to wave at Leaf fans when it happens.

Again it short-sightedness as usual on your part anyway .. That is only the situation year 1 of a new CBA without adjustments .. Year 2 when Nolan and likely Belfour come off the books that is going to make for a lot of cap room in a UFA age 28 world if the rumours are true ..

Since you feel so bad for the Leafs I guess the situation shows that an egual shot at Crosby in not so unfair after all now is it ??..

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06-07-2005, 09:12 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
Feel free to cite another source of rankings for Leaf propsects. I've yet to hear anyone but Leaf homers express confidence in the group.
The Rangers seemed to, they gave up Brian Leetch for a couple of guys the Leafs drafted in the 6th and 8th rounds.

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Old
06-07-2005, 09:17 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
1) I asked for a relative ranking, not a laundry list.

2) Citing "torontomapleleafs.com" as an unbiased source???
Citing HF's as an unbiased source????

It is a laundry list of players actually seen and evaluated vs a hodge podge of players never seen by armchair evaluators here.

Even the greatest prospect is not an NHL player.

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06-07-2005, 09:20 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
The Rangers seemed to, they gave up Brian Leetch for a couple of guys the Leafs drafted in the 6th and 8th rounds.
As much as I didn't like the deal, the Leafs have no problems drafting players other teams accept in trades, even if they do it in the later rounds. Wasn't it only about 3 years ago the Leafs had more WJC players than any other team?

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06-07-2005, 09:28 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Again it short-sightedness as usual on your part anyway .. That is only the situation year 1 of a new CBA without adjustments .. Year 2 when Nolan and likely Belfour come off the books that is going to make for a lot of cap room in a UFA age 28 world if the rumours are true ..
Obviously, but let him have his little fantasies.

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Old
06-07-2005, 09:42 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
I've shown a whole lot more than that. Even having Spezza, Hossa and Havlat would be fantastic drafting without even adding in the other Sens lengthy list of quality draft picks over the past decade without ever putting a poor team on the ice.

Anyway I can't help but notice that you have yet to provide your list for comparison as promised.

You didn't have to scoute spezza... my 85 year old grandmother could have pick Spezza 2nd after Ilya Kovy....... lol that doesn't count as "Drafted talent"...

on your list if it was older years... Daniel Alfy is a good example... Tomas Kaberle...

people that were actually scouted..........and picked late who performed well...

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06-07-2005, 10:14 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
As much as I didn't like the deal, the Leafs have no problems drafting players other teams accept in trades, even if they do it in the later rounds. Wasn't it only about 3 years ago the Leafs had more WJC players than any other team?
The 2003 WJC, they had 10 and tied with Detroit for the most. Less than two years later they are 29th in the prospect rankings.

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06-07-2005, 10:31 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
The 2003 WJC, they had 10 and tied with Detroit for the most. Less than two years later they are 29th in the prospect rankings.
But the countries that select their representatives probably were confused by watching the players, and not relying on HF's rankings.

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06-07-2005, 10:46 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joepeps
You didn't have to scoute spezza... my 85 year old grandmother could have pick Spezza 2nd after Ilya Kovy....... lol that doesn't count as "Drafted talent"...

on your list if it was older years... Daniel Alfy is a good example... Tomas Kaberle...

people that were actually scouted..........and picked late who performed well...
Here are 10 players drafted the same year as Spezza (it was a weak draft overall from what we've seen so far)

How would you rank these players now ...would Spezza still be the #2 overall?
He might be, but he may not.

1 - Ilya Kovalchuk
2 - Jason Spezza
10 - Dan Blackburn
40 - Fedor Tjutin
62 - Igor Grigorenko
176 - Marek Zidlicky
189 - Pasi Nurminen
232 - Martin Gerber
253 - Petr Cajanek
267 - Ivan Majesky

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Old
06-07-2005, 10:52 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
Citing HF's as an unbiased source????
I still haven't seen you provide another "unbiased source"

Quote:
It is a laundry list of players actually seen and evaluated vs a hodge podge of players never seen by armchair evaluators here.
And is completely devoid of any evaluation or analysis.

The list is useless.

Quote:
Even the greatest prospect is not an NHL player.
The pearls of wisdom that drip from your fingertips. The point is that the Leafs will be forced to use their PROSPECTS as NHLers.

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Old
06-07-2005, 10:54 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
But the countries that select their representatives probably were confused by watching the players, and not relying on HF's rankings.
How many Leafs at this years World Juniors?

How many Leafs at this years World Championships?

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06-07-2005, 11:05 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
How many Leafs at this years World Juniors?

How many Leafs at this years World Championships?
If it didn't matter in 2003 then why would it matter this year?

Plenty of players declined to play in the World Championships.

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06-07-2005, 11:06 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
How many Leafs at this years World Juniors?

How many Leafs at this years World Championships?
Not every player plays for Canada ...if you really want to know, look it up yourself.

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Old
06-07-2005, 11:07 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by mydnyte
Not every player plays for Canada ...if you really want to know, look it up yourself.
I already know the answer, do you?

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06-07-2005, 11:17 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
I already know the answer, do you?
Lets go over the list


Sundin
Nolan
Newie
Almo
Kabs
Berg
Pilar
Klee
Belfour
Tellqvist
Steen
Kukumberg
Antropov
Colaicovo

all represented thier countries respectively in the past 5 years... so what are you talking about?????

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Old
06-07-2005, 11:40 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joepeps
so what are you talking about?????
How many Leafs at this years World Juniors?

How many Leafs at this years World Championships?

Do try and keep up.

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06-07-2005, 11:46 AM
  #120
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Plenty of sens on the WC team. No wonder we lost.

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Old
06-07-2005, 11:50 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
How many Leafs at this years World Juniors?

How many Leafs at this years World Championships?

Do try and keep up.
Is that the new rule .. ??

How many Tampa Bay Lightning ??

I seem to remeber NO Vincent Lecavalier, Martin St. Louis, Brad Richards, Nikolai Khabibulin (G), Fredrik Modin in the World Championships for the Stanley Cup champs

So what's your point .. The Leafs had Kaberle so they had more then the Cup champs ..

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Old
06-07-2005, 12:02 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
How many Leafs at this years World Juniors?

How many Leafs at this years World Championships?

Do try and keep up.
Couple of years ago Leafs had the most prospects representing WJC, for 2 consecutive years.

just a few years ago Leafs were one of the teams who had the most players playing in the Olympics.

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06-07-2005, 12:23 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuppY
Couple of years ago Leafs had the most prospects representing WJC, for 2 consecutive years.

just a few years ago Leafs were one of the teams who had the most players playing in the Olympics.
No point in trying to explain, he only wants you to list criteria that matches his argument. Logic doesn't dictate this debate.

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Old
06-07-2005, 12:45 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuppY
Couple of years ago Leafs had the most prospects representing WJC, for 2 consecutive years.

just a few years ago Leafs were one of the teams who had the most players playing in the Olympics.
I remember one year the Leafs had the most prospects at the WJC but not the second year. Not saying it didn't happen, just that I don't remember it. It doesn't appear that too many of that group are ready for prime time, just yet.

Only Sundin and Kaberle could be considered locks for their current Olympic squads.

The Leafs are taking a downturn. How long it last will depend on the skills of your inexperienced GM.

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06-07-2005, 12:57 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
I remember one year the Leafs had the most prospects at the WJC but not the second year. Not saying it didn't happen, just that I don't remember it. It doesn't appear that too many of that group are ready for prime time, just yet.

Only Sundin and Kaberle could be considered locks for their current Olympic squads.

The Leafs are taking a downturn. How long it last will depend on the skills of your inexperienced GM.
Our 'inexperienced' GM will soon buy Hossa away from the underserving senetors You guys arent even willing to pay them proparly no wonder you guys dont win.

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