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Top 3 Euro players?

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Old
06-27-2013, 10:41 PM
  #1
StreetSharks
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Top 3 Euro players?

Are these the top 3?

D-man - Lidstrom

Goalie - Hasek

Forward - Jagr?



Some jagr rep...#4 on that list shows jagr being hooked and pulled insane like.. goes to show you how well Jagr played in that era..

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Old
06-27-2013, 10:56 PM
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gudzilla
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about right. atleast of the NHL players, there might be some of the old USSR players making a case.

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06-27-2013, 11:14 PM
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Pavel Bure




EDIT: If you are talking about points then that changes things. But other than that Bure is one of the most talented.

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06-27-2013, 11:17 PM
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maahchand10
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Forseberg
Federov
Lidstrom

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Old
06-27-2013, 11:28 PM
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pdd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by florida pwnthers View Post
about right. atleast of the NHL players, there might be some of the old USSR players making a case.
No Soviet player is close to Jagr; Makarov was the best Soviet forward to play his prime outside of the NHL, and we got to see his career's tail end from 31 on in the NHL. He was one of the best forwards in the world in his prime... but Jagr was also. And Jagr aged far better, still an elite forward in his 30s while Makarov was reduced to being an average top-sixer.

Also, Fedorov and Ovechkin can both be potentially argued above Makarov among Russians; the Czech wins that battle both times.

Fetisov was the best Soviet player, and many felt he was comparable to Bourque in his prime. So an argument possibly could be made. Except that Fetisov (who was the same age as Makarov) didn't really have a significant direct impact in the NHL outside maybe two or three of his nine seasons. Lidstrom would win his second Norris at the age Fetisov was in his first season, and Lidstrom won six Norrises, two Cups, and a Conn Smythe in the nine-season span he played at the same ages Fetisov was during his NHL career.

Tretiak is the greatest Soviet goaltender ever, and the best non-NHL goalie ever (all apologies to Mr. Holecek). That said, Hasek dominated the NHL for a decade, retired, came back and had a couple more very strong seasons. Before he did that, he dominated the Czech league.

All three listed in the OP are correct, and allare top-ten all-time players (#7 Hasek, #9 Jagr, #10 Lidstrom)

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06-28-2013, 12:06 AM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Yes, Hasek, Lidstrom, and Jagr are top 3 in any order. Ovechkin has a shot to join them, but only if his play this last season is the new normal

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06-28-2013, 12:56 AM
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Daniel Alfredsson

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Old
06-28-2013, 01:11 AM
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pdd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by praisealfie11 View Post
Daniel Alfredsson
Alfredsson has an argument to be one of the top three Swedes, but he's a longshot there with Lidstrom, Forsberg, Sundin in front of him, not to mention the arguments that can be made for Zetterberg, the Sedins, the Naslunds, Loob, Salming, and Lundqvist.

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06-28-2013, 01:34 AM
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Harlamov. Treatyak. Lidstrom

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06-28-2013, 03:38 AM
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5 4 Fighting
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Fedorov
Tretiak
Lidstrom

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06-28-2013, 04:26 AM
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Sky04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canucksrool View Post
Pavel Bure


EDIT: If you are talking about points then that changes things. But other than that Bure is one of the most talented.
Wouldn't matter, Jagr is more talented then Bure anyways.

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06-28-2013, 05:01 AM
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KingKopitar11*
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Wouldn't matter, Jagr is more talented then Bure anyways.
I completely disagree.

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06-28-2013, 07:00 AM
  #13
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Yes. They are top 3 euro players.

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06-28-2013, 07:06 AM
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tony d
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Yes they are the top 3 European hockey players of all time. I'd rank them like this:

Lidstrom
Hasek
Jagr

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06-28-2013, 07:29 AM
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1. Jagr
2. Mikita
3. Selanne

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Old
06-28-2013, 03:47 PM
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Best ever:
Jagr
Lidstrom
Selanne

Best current:
Datsyuk
Malkin
Lundqvist

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06-28-2013, 03:58 PM
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as per usual a euro thread completely ignores/forgets peter stastny. third most dominant player of the 80s behind gretzky/lemieux.

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06-28-2013, 04:26 PM
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weaponomega
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
I completely disagree.
The only thing Bure had on Jagr was skating and probably slap shot. And Jagr was a pretty quick guy in his younger days.

Jagr was a better stickhandler, better passer, better wrist shot.

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Old
06-28-2013, 04:28 PM
  #19
Atas2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
No Soviet player is close to Jagr; Makarov was the best Soviet forward to play his prime outside of the NHL, and we got to see his career's tail end from 31 on in the NHL. He was one of the best forwards in the world in his prime... but Jagr was also. And Jagr aged far better, still an elite forward in his 30s while Makarov was reduced to being an average top-sixer.

Also, Fedorov and Ovechkin can both be potentially argued above Makarov among Russians; the Czech wins that battle both times.

Fetisov was the best Soviet player, and many felt he was comparable to Bourque in his prime. So an argument possibly could be made. Except that Fetisov (who was the same age as Makarov) didn't really have a significant direct impact in the NHL outside maybe two or three of his nine seasons. Lidstrom would win his second Norris at the age Fetisov was in his first season, and Lidstrom won six Norrises, two Cups, and a Conn Smythe in the nine-season span he played at the same ages Fetisov was during his NHL career.

Tretiak is the greatest Soviet goaltender ever, and the best non-NHL goalie ever (all apologies to Mr. Holecek). That said, Hasek dominated the NHL for a decade, retired, came back and had a couple more very strong seasons. Before he did that, he dominated the Czech league.

All three listed in the OP are correct, and allare top-ten all-time players (#7 Hasek, #9 Jagr, #10 Lidstrom)
A bunch of soviet players were >>> Jagr. Makarov never was on an elite list, unless as a part of the KLM line. And don't you EVER compare the soviet players by their NHL performance! The difference between hockey they played and the NHL hockey of that time was bigger than between hockey and soccer. They never would show even half of what they could do in the NHL. That's no bashing of the NHL. It's just the soviet system only worked with 5 guys on the ice who played the game they were taught to play. In the NHL system only once(partially) the Russian 5 in Detroit was able to demonstrate glimpses of that soviet game(puck possessin for over 3 minutes of continuos play).

Kharlamov, Maltsev, Fedorov, Bure, Datsyuk are all better than Jagr. Jagr has had amazing hands and puck protection and that's about it. Pretty much comparable to Ovechkin who is a wrecking ball with a lot of scoring skills. But then there is nothing else. Of course he's probably the best at that, but that's not enough to be that high of a star.

For Fetisov watch the above note about soviet hockey. He needed the KLM(oor any other comparable soviet unit of players) in front of him to do what he could do.

And I think Tretiak would easily challenge Hasek, not taking anything away from Hasek who is a one of a kind goaltender.

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06-28-2013, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShippinUpToBoston View Post
Best ever:
Jagr
Lidstrom
Selanne

Best current:
Datsyuk
Malkin
Lundqvist
Hasek?

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06-28-2013, 04:30 PM
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Atas2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weaponomega View Post
The only thing Bure had on Jagr was skating and probably slap shot. And Jagr was a pretty quick guy in his younger days.

Jagr was a better stickhandler, better passer, better wrist shot.
It's Bure we are talking about, remember?

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Old
06-28-2013, 04:34 PM
  #22
HockeyThoughts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShippinUpToBoston View Post
Best ever:
Jagr
Lidstrom
Selanne

Best current:
Datsyuk
Malkin
Lundqvist
*cough* the current Maurice Richard & Hart Winner *cough* (through stifled laughter at the thought of Pavel Datsyuk > Alexander Ovechkin)

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06-28-2013, 04:34 PM
  #23
WangMustGo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atas2000 View Post
A bunch of soviet players were >>> Jagr. Makarov never was on an elite list, unless as a part of the KLM line. And don't you EVER compare the soviet players by their NHL performance! The difference between hockey they played and the NHL hockey of that time was bigger than between hockey and soccer. They never would show even half of what they could do in the NHL. That's no bashing of the NHL. It's just the soviet system only worked with 5 guys on the ice who played the game they were taught to play. In the NHL system only once(partially) the Russian 5 in Detroit was able to demonstrate glimpses of that soviet game(puck possessin for over 3 minutes of continuos play).

Kharlamov, Maltsev, Fedorov, Bure, Datsyuk are all better than Jagr. Jagr has had amazing hands and puck protection and that's about it. Pretty much comparable to Ovechkin who is a wrecking ball with a lot of scoring skills. But then there is nothing else. Of course he's probably the best at that, but that's not enough to be that high of a star.

For Fetisov watch the above note about soviet hockey. He needed the KLM(oor any other comparable soviet unit of players) in front of him to do what he could do.

And I think Tretiak would easily challenge Hasek, not taking anything away from Hasek who is a one of a kind goaltender.
Are you kidding me? I never saw Kharlamov or Maltsev play, but you have to be joking to say that the others are better than Jagr. He is one of the best players to ever play the game. Jagr's size and skill combination is something that hasn't been seen since Lemieux, and he is the best forward since Lemieux.

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Old
06-28-2013, 04:43 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weaponomega View Post
The only thing Bure had on Jagr was skating and probably slap shot. And Jagr was a pretty quick guy in his younger days.

Jagr was a better stickhandler, better passer, better wrist shot.
I still think Bure is better than Jagr, he handled Dallas pretty well too. There may be players with higher points but I think Bure is very talented.

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06-28-2013, 04:53 PM
  #25
HockeyThoughts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atas2000 View Post
A bunch of soviet players were >>> Jagr. Makarov never was on an elite list, unless as a part of the KLM line. And don't you EVER compare the soviet players by their NHL performance! The difference between hockey they played and the NHL hockey of that time was bigger than between hockey and soccer. They never would show even half of what they could do in the NHL. That's no bashing of the NHL. It's just the soviet system only worked with 5 guys on the ice who played the game they were taught to play. In the NHL system only once(partially) the Russian 5 in Detroit was able to demonstrate glimpses of that soviet game(puck possessin for over 3 minutes of continuos play).

Kharlamov, Maltsev, Fedorov, Bure, Datsyuk are all better than Jagr. Jagr has had amazing hands and puck protection and that's about it. Pretty much comparable to Ovechkin who is a wrecking ball with a lot of scoring skills. But then there is nothing else. Of course he's probably the best at that, but that's not enough to be that high of a star.

For Fetisov watch the above note about soviet hockey. He needed the KLM(oor any other comparable soviet unit of players) in front of him to do what he could do.

And I think Tretiak would easily challenge Hasek, not taking anything away from Hasek who is a one of a kind goaltender.
You must be joking

The man who won 5 scoring races, 3 Lester B's, 1 Hart Trophy, 7x 1st Team All Star, 2 Stanley Cups, 1 Olympic Gold..etc ..etc Isn't "that high of a star" and isn't superior to Pavel Datsyuk, Pavel Bure or Sergei Fedorov among many questionable others?

So what you're basically saying is that he wasn't flashy enough for your tastes?

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