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Why is the KHL destroying European Hockey?

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Old
06-28-2013, 11:53 AM
  #51
Kalzu
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
These questions should be answered by Slovan Bratislava fans.
Just look at Slovan Bratislava's Wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HC_Slov...lava#Rivalries

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Kontinental Hockey league
This section is empty.
Some unintented irony.

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06-28-2013, 11:54 AM
  #52
GlobeHockey
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Originally Posted by PhillyPhinn View Post
A lot of eastern European fans, on this forum and elsewhere, are moaning about the NHL taking the best players and there needing to be some counter force to it, but most finns, and I'd guess swedes too, don't think like that. I don't care that the SM-liiga isn't the best, or the 2nd best league in the world, and I don't care that the most talented finns play in the NHL. I care about my team, and that it does well in the finnish league system. Yes, level of play is important to a degree, but what makes the SM-liiga important to me is that it's finnish, not that it's the best. When I want to see the best, I watch the NHL, when I want to see "my league", I watch the SM-liiga. When I want to see the best, I watch the Champions League, when I want to see "my league", I watch the Veikkausliiga(finnish football league). I don't want to sell history and all our traditions just so my team can play in a league that is COMPLETELY foreign and unimportant to most finns(me included)
We need you to get on television and say this, bravo Sir!~

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06-28-2013, 12:01 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
I agree as well. But if we look at KHL in long term, and I mean loooong term. The money in places like Magnitogorsk, or Khanty-Mansiysk will eventually run out, and most of the teams in un-sustainable places will die off. I hope by that time teams in sustainable places (for example - Helsinki, Moscow, Yaroslavl, Bratislava, heck any reasonably wealthy European city with diverse economy) will be strong enough to keep the league of a very high standard still.
that's a: long removed; b: the only way it happens if every country, that joins the KHL has 1 person in the governing body, so the descision is beneficial for KONTINENTAL LEAGUE, not the richest of the league c: no person in the governing body can have any remote relation to any of the clubs in the league, not a hint/smell of it. Just pure business decisions.

Is this realistically doable - yes, in todays Russia/KHL - not a chance.

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06-28-2013, 12:04 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by GlobeHockey View Post
I think there are fans like such everywhere. But the atmosphere in the arena when Dinamo is playing is incredible , you must say this! It was so much fun attending the game, I still have not forgotten my time witnessing the passion of the fans!
Speaking of the atmosphere, with no Eteläpääty, it's going be like church at Jokerit KHL games.

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06-28-2013, 12:05 PM
  #55
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If SM-liiga (and Finnish hockey in general) is really that dependant on one team, I'd say they're ****ed either way.

Sure, SM-liiga will feel different. For a while. Losing one of the most important teams in the league will hurt, but it won't destroy it. Rivalries may begin to fade out, some fans of Jokerit may start rooting for other teams or rage quit hockey fandom altogether (until they get over it), but I don't think the effect will be as substantial as you seem to suggest. SM-liiga will still remain the best hockey league in Finland, and Finnish hockey fans will be naturally drawn to it.

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06-28-2013, 12:06 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Speaking of the atmosphere, with no Eteläpääty, it's going be like church at Jokerit KHL games.
You will be able to hear pin drops at the games It will be interesting to see a poll, of fans in Helsinki, whether they will watch other Sm Liiga teams or watch Jokerit...

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06-28-2013, 12:11 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
that's a: long removed; b: the only way it happens if every country, that joins the KHL has 1 person in the governing body, so the descision is beneficial for KONTINENTAL LEAGUE, not the richest of the league c: no person in the governing body can have any remote relation to any of the clubs in the league, not a hint/smell of it. Just pure business decisions.

Is this realistically doable - yes, in todays Russia/KHL - not a chance.
If they really wanted to make the league more attractive to non-Russians, they should stop competing with the NHL and instead try to create a league with more parity so that almost every club has a chance to challenge for the title instead of a playoff position and then see the richest teams take the trophy and all the best players.

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06-28-2013, 12:17 PM
  #58
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Jussi
If they really wanted to make the league more attractive to non-Russians, they should stop competing with the NHL and instead try to create a league with more parity so that almost every club has a chance to challenge for the title instead of a playoff position and then see the richest teams take the trophy and all the best players.
Dont worry, KHL will do it when minimal budget for salaries is cca 20 mil euro

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06-28-2013, 01:09 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
If they really wanted to make the league more attractive to non-Russians, they should stop competing with the NHL and instead try to create a league with more parity so that almost every club has a chance to challenge for the title instead of a playoff position and then see the richest teams take the trophy and all the best players.
isn't it what my post actually entitled?

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06-28-2013, 01:20 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
isn't it what my post actually entitled?
Only a part of the process, so to speak.

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06-28-2013, 01:39 PM
  #61
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I don't see how they're killing the domestic leagues. If those domestic leagues remain and then can become the focal point for that nations up and coming players then I'd be all for it as it retains their national league and also gives players a chance to place on a competitive scale. What's to say that Jokerit won't field a team in the SM-Liga as well but with purely Finnish prospects and players as a feeder team to their KHL team? With teams coming in Milan, Germany and a rumoured team in London in the future, I look forward to it.

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06-28-2013, 01:45 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
I don't see how they're killing the domestic leagues. If those domestic leagues remain and then can become the focal point for that nations up and coming players then I'd be all for it as it retains their national league and also gives players a chance to place on a competitive scale. What's to say that Jokerit won't field a team in the SM-Liga as well but with purely Finnish prospects and players as a feeder team to their KHL team? With teams coming in Milan, Germany and a rumoured team in London in the future, I look forward to it.
According to Harkimo, Hartwall Areena can't be home to two hockey teams as it would eat up the non-hockey events which actually bring in more money. Only one Jokerit team.

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06-28-2013, 01:48 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
According to Harkimo, Hartwall Areena can't be home to two hockey teams as it would eat up the non-hockey events which actually bring in more money. Only one Jokerit team.
There's still the possibility though that they could build another arena or play elsewhere as an "affiliate" of the KHL Jokerit.

I think that'll be the likely course of action for teams not from Russia that are joining as it keeps the team in the domestic league and the revenue that they bring but also gives the players a chance to develop against better opposition and also challenge themselves.

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06-28-2013, 01:56 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by GlobeHockey View Post
After what has happened here in Helsinki, it is apparent this strategy of expansion is going to effectively kill off domestic leagues in European countries. What makes sport great is the rivalries and traditions your club has. It's a shame won't be able to have our famous battles with our other Finnish clubs. What can be done to prevent this , and why is this necessary for European Hockey? The KHL really has no chance to compete with the NHL whether in terms of product on the ice or $ value, so why do the Russians intend on ruining traditions and legacies all across Europe? We have a legacy from when our club was formed in the 60's and all that is now ruined.
I could not have said it better myself.

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06-28-2013, 01:58 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by BalticWarrior View Post
Peter again how many times does this has to be explained to you- KHL is NOT a developmental league,VHL is.
Agreed 100%. KHL should have only interest to put forward best hockey.

Guys complaining about missing rivalry, and destruction of domestic leagues, the answer has been given so many times on this forum... Eventually it is hope that only the top handful teams in Fin/Swe and maybe one from Den/Nor are included in the KHL in separate conference. This way you have the old rivalries except with better quality, and some new ones.... The domestic leagues are small and limited growth because you can not squeeze a country so thin with so many teams and so little money. I am glad to see the KHL pushing that old model out of countries. But in general, more teams, more attention, better quality in a league are a good thing: so KHL is not the devil.

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06-28-2013, 02:01 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
I don't see how they're killing the domestic leagues. If those domestic leagues remain and then can become the focal point for that nations up and coming players then I'd be all for it as it retains their national league and also gives players a chance to place on a competitive scale. What's to say that Jokerit won't field a team in the SM-Liga as well but with purely Finnish prospects and players as a feeder team to their KHL team? With teams coming in Milan, Germany and a rumoured team in London in the future, I look forward to it.
This also shows the mindlessness of the KHL. Teams in Milan, London? What in the lord's name? Could it be more plastic, hollow and fake? Money pumped to create teams with zero to none hockey culture or interest to create fake teams so the KHL can boast itself as a truly ''European'' league. It's a travesty.

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06-28-2013, 02:02 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlobeHockey View Post
After what has happened here in Helsinki, it is apparent this strategy of expansion is going to effectively kill off domestic leagues in European countries. What makes sport great is the rivalries and traditions your club has. It's a shame won't be able to have our famous battles with our other Finnish clubs. What can be done to prevent this , and why is this necessary for European Hockey? The KHL really has no chance to compete with the NHL whether in terms of product on the ice or $ value, so why do the Russians intend on ruining traditions and legacies all across Europe? We have a legacy from when our club was formed in the 60's and all that is now ruined.
Called evolution - maybe the clubs are tired of playing in a league with declining future; they have better visions. Other Finnish clubs will also have to join if they want the rivalry to exist. Also, what about new traditions/rivalries. Maybe in 20 years their new rivalry will be some other team, who is to say?

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06-28-2013, 02:04 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by PhillyPhinn View Post
What our "brothers" from the east/south don't get, is that we have ZERO interest or "general knowledge" about russian hockey. Yes, Latvia had it's own teams during the Soviet era, and Czechoslovakia wasn't even part of the Soviet Union, but the Iron Curtain still led to those countries/cultures being more aware about what is happening in Russia, and with russian hockey. In Finland there is NOTHING that connects us with russian hockey.

Even though we have a long border, most hockey fans here are 1) not interested in russian hockey in any large degree, and 2) not knowledgeable about Russia as a whole. I have a latvian fried, who is an ethnic latvian with major "issues" about Russia and russians, but still he knows and follows(and has done so all his life) what happens in russian hockey, and knows the history, rivalries, customs and culture. We finns are completely oblivious to everything relating to russia, pretty much none of our native population speaks russian, and most importantly, has no interest in doing so. The russian league, it's teams, it's culture, is completely foreign to 99,9999% of finns, and we as a whole have no interest in being part of it.

A lot of eastern European fans, on this forum and elsewhere, are moaning about the NHL taking the best players and there needing to be some counter force to it, but most finns, and I'd guess swedes too, don't think like that. I don't care that the SM-liiga isn't the best, or the 2nd best league in the world, and I don't care that the most talented finns play in the NHL. I care about my team, and that it does well in the finnish league system. Yes, level of play is important to a degree, but what makes the SM-liiga important to me is that it's finnish, not that it's the best. When I want to see the best, I watch the NHL, when I want to see "my league", I watch the SM-liiga. When I want to see the best, I watch the Champions League, when I want to see "my league", I watch the Veikkausliiga(finnish football league). I don't want to sell history and all our traditions just so my team can play in a league that is COMPLETELY foreign and unimportant to most finns(me included)
Man, there are hockey fans and there are club fans. If you're a hockey fan it's impossible for you to not know about Soviet/Russian hockey...

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Old
06-28-2013, 02:09 PM
  #69
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This is terrible. The KHL runs on ill-gotten gains and now a Finnish team is joining that circus? The KHL may have a bit higher overall skill level than the Finnish league but this is still like joining a 3rd world league.

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06-28-2013, 02:14 PM
  #70
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KHL aint destroying European hockey. Lets face the facts. Many good finnish players are playing in KHL. I think that when narrit, I mean Jokerit are in KHL, there is lower threshold for Finnish players to go to the KHL. And they are playing for Finnish team them.

I see this as an opportunity. And there is also plenty of other FEL teams... all Jokerit fans who dont like this thing join the HIFK team, you know, better later than newer.

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Old
06-28-2013, 02:20 PM
  #71
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I can only imagine what happens if/when a Swedish team joins the KHL. They gonna call KHL not a 3rd world league, but an underworld league ran by goddess Hel herself.

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06-28-2013, 02:25 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
Man, there are hockey fans and there are club fans. If you're a hockey fan it's impossible for you to not know about Soviet/Russian hockey...
I know about Soviet/Russian hockey in terms of the national team, but I have no idea what the relationship between let's say SKA and Magnitogorsk are for example, whether there's a rivalry, what the culture is like, what the cities are like etc. I know that stuff about SaiPa, JYP, Lukko, Ässät and the other finnish teams, and it adds 1000x to the experience.

We could move Spartak Moscow to the La Liga, I'm sure no one would mind as it's a better league and all, and no one would miss the Dinamo&CSKA rivalries, and would be super excited about Wednesday night away games against Elche and Granada.

Sure, you may call the KHL a "European" league, but in reality it's a russian driven "Eastern Bloc" league. Just like the Nordic countries could form a "Kontinentala Hockeyligan", that had 15 teams from either Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark, with one team from Switzerland, and wonder why the Swiss teams fans were moaning about joining this "continental" league.

Again: I have been a fan of Jokerit for over 20 years, and they have played all those years in the SM-Liiga. I've enjoyed the banter/rivalry with fans from other teams live and on internet forums, enjoyed travelling to other cities that are located very close to me, and enjoyed seeing my team compete for a championship that every hockey fan in Finland cares about.

I'm ****ing sorry that I'm not doing jumping jacks about the prospect of losing all this, so that I can join an unstable league ran by criminals, fighting for a championship I have 0% interest in, with other teams who I neither know/care about, and whose fans I don't know or even share a language to talk in most cases. I'm sure Russia is great, I'm sure the KHL is great, I'm sure you like it, but it's 100% foreign to me, and I have no interest in it in terms of having my home town team fight for the title of a foreign country, no matter how "Kontinental" you think it is.

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06-28-2013, 02:35 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Dont worry, KHL will do it when minimal budget for salaries is cca 20 mil euro
This is not possible with the current economic situation.

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06-28-2013, 02:36 PM
  #74
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Sad day for club fans, but for hockey fans and quality hockey fan like myself, i couldn't be happier that i get to see KHL level hockey 15km away from my home! Well done!

I was first Lions fan, then NHL fan, but after those i just couldn't get emotionally involved with lesser quality hockey that is SM-liiga other than watching young promising kids with NHL potential.

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06-28-2013, 02:38 PM
  #75
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I will start to cheer for Jokerit when they start playing in KHL because they represent whole Finland not just them selfs when they play there.

and if i undestand correct they are playing national athems before everygame just like in NHL???

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