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Why is the KHL destroying European Hockey?

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Old
06-28-2013, 03:35 PM
  #101
fedfed
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Originally Posted by billy piton View Post
it is incredible, but when medveščak was about to join ebel, there were hockey fans who said that joining ebel is circus that would eventually destroy croatian hockey. the funny thing is, croatia at that time had 3 and half amateur clubs with national team between group 1 and 2 (old rankings). so i'm not surprised so many finns isn't thrilled with this change.
Yeah. There are just people who consider sports something sacred and hate any changes that could be made. Time will tell, but business-wise, Jokerit move seems smart.

BTW, I'll root for Medvescak in the West next year. Best of luck to you guys in Croatia.


Last edited by fedfed: 06-28-2013 at 03:46 PM.
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06-28-2013, 03:36 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Metalcommand View Post
Biggest organization in FEL becomes nothing but a Russian billionaires plaything. Crony businessmen pouring their dirty money into Jokerit for otherwise it cannot even survive in KHL. Harkimo said that in the presser himself. This is what it has come down to.
Did you know that all three of those "Russian businessmen" are citizens of... Finland.

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06-28-2013, 03:41 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
Did you know that all three of those "Russian businessmen" are citizens of... Finland.
Because they lived here for a long time but they're still Russian.


Last edited by Jussi: 06-28-2013 at 03:48 PM.
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06-28-2013, 03:41 PM
  #104
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I do agree that at the moment, the general interest in the Gagarin Cup isn't very high among Finns. Whoa, I wonder why. Perhaps never having a team that competes for the cup has something to do with the issue?

I fully support this move and I think it provides a lot of opportunities from a developmental standpoint. Give it some time before you deem it a failure. Of course, it's easy for me to say, as I'm not a Jokerit fan nor am I emotionally invested in them.

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06-28-2013, 03:42 PM
  #105
billy piton
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Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
Yeah. There are just people who consider sports something sacred and hate any changes that could be made. Time will tell, but business-wise, it seems smart.

BTW, I'll root for Medvescak in the West next year. Best of luck to you guys in Croatia.
i agree.

thnx, we'll need a lot of it

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06-28-2013, 03:46 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Because they've lived here for a long time but they're still Russian.
Well, Rotenberg is basically finnish, has lived here since he was 10, and speaks the language.

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06-28-2013, 03:46 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by SCBdude View Post
What a lot of Russians don't seem to understand is that nobody here minds being a feeder to the NHL.
This

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06-28-2013, 03:47 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Metalcommand View Post
Biggest organization in FEL becomes nothing but a Russian billionaires plaything. Crony businessmen pouring their dirty money into Jokerit for otherwise it cannot even survive in KHL. Harkimo said that in the presser himself. This is what it has come down to.
Just admit it, you are lifelong jokerit/SM-liiga fan and you love it just the way it is(was) and all radical changes are bad even if it means better on ice product.

Russian plaything, dirty money ;D give me a break.

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06-28-2013, 03:49 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
I would say that Jokerit takes the best from Lev and Slovan. Rich and with big arena (like Lev), with history and huge fanbase (like Slovan).
yep, agree

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06-28-2013, 03:52 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
Did you know that all three of those "Russian businessmen" are citizens of... Finland.
Yes.

Whole Rotenberg family friends of Putin making their money from their shady deals in Russia. Does it get cronier then that?

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06-28-2013, 03:52 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by PhillyPhinn View Post
Well, Rotenberg is basically finnish, has lived here since he was 10, and speaks the language.
Yes but he moved to London after he played for Karhu-Kissat A-juniors and then went to work for Gazprom.

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06-28-2013, 03:53 PM
  #112
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http://www.iltasanomat.fi/khl/art-1288578237223.html

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06-28-2013, 04:02 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by EkiE View Post
Just admit it, you are lifelong jokerit/SM-liiga fan and you love it just the way it is(was) and all radical changes are bad even if it means better on ice product.

Russian plaything, dirty money ;D give me a break.

National team, NHL, FEL in that order. Tell me how will this benefit Finnish ice hockey? Unlike you, I believe this will be extremely harmful if it succeeds. KHL basically bought a team out of our domestic league. (yadda yadda only arena, this doesnt happen without their money so spare me the lecture will you?) Can't you really see how harmful this is? FEL will wither away and die.

A Jokerit team playing in the KHL that will be filled with guys that can't hack it or won't go even try (especially now) the NHL. I except 6-1 kind of butt-rapeage to become the norm in the future against North American teams.

And btw. I don't understand why do you say ''lifelong FEL/Jokerit fan'' as though it were an insult? How does Jokerit in KHL mean better on ice-product in FEL? It's not that I'm against KHL per se but I believe it should stay out of Finland. This move just cements the complete penetration of the oil-lubed dong into the pooper of Finnish Ice Hockey. Emrace the tentacles, they are here to stay.

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06-28-2013, 04:03 PM
  #114
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delete

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06-28-2013, 04:05 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Hopefully she gets over it, sad to see someone investing deep one sided feelings for business organization.

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06-28-2013, 04:10 PM
  #116
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Hopefully sometime soon, someone commits their own experiment and buys a club like let's say khl champion Dynamo Moscow and ships them to the SM Liiga. Then let's see the reaction of the Muscovite and Russians. I don't think our fellow posters understand that we and most if not all of the rest of Europe cares anything for the khl, it's not accomplishing and will not accomplish anything in countries like Sweden, Finland or Switzerland, maybe the lower end countries but in all honesty, it's just a huge detriment. At the end of the day it's still a 5 year old baby league trying to ruin the legacy in other countries.

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06-28-2013, 04:16 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by EkiE View Post
Hopefully she gets over it, sad to see someone investing deep one sided feelings for business organization.
She's been a fan for over 28 years, Jokerit was anything but a business organization then.

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06-28-2013, 04:17 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by GlobeHockey View Post
Hopefully sometime soon, someone commits their own experiment and buys a club like let's say khl champion Dynamo Moscow and ships them to the SM Liiga. Then let's see the reaction of the Muscovite and Russians. I don't think our fellow posters understand that we and most if not all of the rest of Europe cares anything for the khl, it's not accomplishing and will not accomplish anything in countries like Sweden, Finland or Switzerland, maybe the lower end countries but in all honesty, it's just a huge detriment. At the end of the day it's still a 5 year old baby league trying to ruin the legacy in other countries.
Amen. FEL has more tradition, history and prestige behind it than the KHL can even dream of. I don't think it will work. I'm sorry but even if you add a team from Finland, Sweden, Germany, Italy and god forbid London it'll still be just an ex-Eastern Bloc league led by Russians with feat few sellouts or plastic teams created from thin air to support their megalomaniac vision.

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06-28-2013, 04:17 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
Czechs said the exact same stuff last year. And Lev was created from scratch, which made it even more difficult. In the end, they started to slowly get into it. Late in the season, O2 Arena was loud and often full.
No it wasn't.

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06-28-2013, 04:18 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlobeHockey View Post
Hopefully sometime soon, someone commits their own experiment and buys a club like let's say khl champion Dynamo Moscow and ships them to the SM Liiga. Then let's see the reaction of the Muscovite and Russians. I don't think our fellow posters understand that we and most if not all of the rest of Europe cares anything for the khl, it's not accomplishing and will not accomplish anything in countries like Sweden, Finland or Switzerland, maybe the lower end countries but in all honesty, it's just a huge detriment. At the end of the day it's still a 5 year old baby league trying to ruin the legacy in other countries.
bold part is most important - 5 old baby league has power to do THIS. What does it mean? Hockey leagues in Europe are sooooooo weak and something is/will be bad with euro hockey if Jokerit with great history moved to KHL. Harkimo said it: "All these years I have tried to make our operation more international. I have had an active role in developing the European Hockey League, but despite all the efforts made, it has not taken off. He does not see a future for Jokerit in euro projects (ET), considers KHL as better option.

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06-28-2013, 04:19 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by BalticWarrior View Post
I am one of those KHL fans who respects your opinion and can see where you are comming from,but this was the choice by your teams owners,so nothing you could do about it.

Btw i have a question will you keep supporting the team in KHL or will you switch to some other sm liiga team (this is a question to all you finns)
I'm the opposite, i'm going to start cheering for Jokerit now, at least until either one of Tampere's Sm-liiga teams join the KHL.

And i used to dislike Jokerit more than any other Sm-liiga team.

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06-28-2013, 04:20 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
bold part is most important - 5 old baby league has power to do THIS. What does it mean? Hockey leagues in Europe are sooooooo weak and something is/will be bad with euro hockey if Jokerit with great history moved to KHL. Harkimo said it: "All these years I have tried to make our operation more international. I have had an active role in developing the European Hockey League, but despite all the efforts made, it has not taken off. He does not see a future for Jokerit in euro projects (ET), considers KHL as better option.

Don't pretend as if the league has been such a success that it has gained this power. Doesn't matter if KHL was 6 months old, when those billionaires decide they want something thats what they take. When you say baby league you probably meant Gazprom? That one is a bit older.

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06-28-2013, 04:28 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Metalcommand View Post
Don't pretend as if the league has been such a success that it has gained this power. Doesn't matter if KHL was 6 months old, when those billionaires decide they want something thats what they take. When you say baby league you probably meant Gazprom? That one is a bit older.
Maybe I did not get the term "5 year old baby league"? Is not it KHL?

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06-28-2013, 04:31 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Metalcommand View Post
National team, NHL, FEL in that order. Tell me how will this benefit Finnish ice hockey? Unlike you, I believe this will be extremely harmful if it succeeds. KHL basically bought a team out of our domestic league. (yadda yadda only arena, this doesnt happen without their money so spare me the lecture will you?) Can't you really see how harmful this is? FEL will wither away and die.

A Jokerit team playing in the KHL that will be filled with guys that can't hack it or won't go even try (especially now) the NHL. I except 6-1 kind of butt-rapeage to become the norm in the future against North American teams.

And btw. I don't understand why do you say ''lifelong FEL/Jokerit fan'' as though it were an insult? How does Jokerit in KHL mean better on ice-product in FEL? It's not that I'm against KHL per se but I believe it should stay out of Finland. This move just cements the complete penetration of the oil-lubed dong into the pooper of Finnish Ice Hockey. Emrace the tentacles, they are here to stay.
I didnt mean your fandom as an insult, more like a compliment but i see your point. Sportbusiness is just as ****** as any other business and im sceptical about FEL's future and think this is right move to accept the inevitable.

Jokerit team had like what 3-5m budget last season, right? If "cap floor" will be 20m in KHL I think we both know what 15m will do to your roster, so i fully expect Jokerit to be fairly competetive there.

And if anything, improving european hockey as whole will mean healthier competition against North-America and im 100% sure it won't change the fact that best players want still play in NA whatsoever, atleast in near future(hopefully it will change).

And finally to your first question: Higher quality league will generate more casual fans who doesn't give a flying f about Raumas tradition or rivalry in tampere or history in general, they just want to see fast and exciting hockey with bigger prize than Kanadamalja. Let's face it, Finns love success more than tradition and our domestic league ratings/attendance is pretty bad considering how much we claim loving game of hockey. More general interest in hockey = more kids want to play it instead of floorball/football. Just a simple example

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06-28-2013, 04:35 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
She's been a fan for over 28 years, Jokerit was anything but a business organization then.
Don't sprain your neck.

After Jokerit got promoted to SM-liiga it has been business organization, so this new arrangement didn't really change anything else than league where Jokerit plays in, which is improvement btw.

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