HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

"Bergevin has been sniffing around to see what he can get for Plekanec"

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-28-2013, 06:13 PM
  #226
idk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 348
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
I don't understand why people are saying Lecavalier could replace Plekanec.

Lecavalier is a purely offensive centre. He is best playing easy minutes and getting points. He is PUTRID, absolutely PUTRID defensively...He plays the same role as DD right now, except Lecavalier is bigger, stronger and more talented. He can't replace Plekanec...Not even close to being able to replace what Pleks brings to the team.
While I don't disagree with you (well, I do - I don't think Vinnie is putrid defensively, I do think he is on the low end of what I'd call average though) one of the biggest problems we've had lately with Tomas is that he essentially plays first line minutes, first PP unit minutes and first PK unit minutes and by the end of the season he's worn out? Would it hurt us to get a gifted centre to play first line plus PP, find a strong defensive centre (like say Jeff Halpern, who are literally a dime a dozen in the NHL) and let him play first line PK and move Plekanec for a gift 1/2 line winger and a prospect or a pick?

idk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 06:14 PM
  #227
onice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draft View Post
Did you miss the whole building for the future bit? Plekanec will likely be redundant in a couple years. We'd be better served having a top prospect, top-4 dman or top-6 winger added to our pool of players than having a 5mil 3rd line centre behind Galchenyuk and potentially Eller.

This won't IMPROVE our current roster, it will IMPROVE the potential impact of our roster.
And did you miss the whole you build a team with quality players who show up at playoffs and not someone who gets manhandled by his own shadow.

I know Pleks is not a Lucic but compared to DD he plays like a Chara. To win you raise the talent level of your team and with the Habs if you have to unload a c-man then it's DD. Not EFFING Pleks.


Last edited by onice: 06-28-2013 at 06:20 PM.
onice is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 06:15 PM
  #228
WeThreeKings
Registered User
 
WeThreeKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,320
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to WeThreeKings
No way there is any truth to this.

WeThreeKings is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 06:16 PM
  #229
onice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecwhswi View Post
simple : It is very possible to keep a good 30 years old player and turn your team into a contender. Trading your better players cause they have more value also means you keep the lesser players - and these lesser players will be the ones our newly acquired players will be stuck with...
exactly!

onice is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 06:16 PM
  #230
CoconutHockey
Registered User
 
CoconutHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 68
vCash: 500
I am really against moving Plekanec this year, this would represent a huge step back for the team. Plekanec is really underated in the league; IMO he is one of the bests, if not the best, 2C in the NHL right now. The problem with our C-line is not Plekanec, it is only the lack of a legit 1C. There is no way DD will ever become that guy, so until Galchenyuk or Eller can step in that role, we need to keep Plekanec if we want to be competitive in the playoffs.

CoconutHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 06:17 PM
  #231
Draft
Registered User
 
Draft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,975
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
None of these players have proven capable of handling top opponents and dealing with tough match ups.
Gally played half of a NHL season. His potential is great, the sky seems to be the limit, but that's all it is at this point, potential.
Eller is one of my favorite players, and he should have been the 2nd line center last year, but that didn't happen. He still hasn't put it all together.

We are not ready to rely on these guys yet.
No, but we can expect to rely on them. Building for the future, dealing with potentials and expectations is our only real hope of building a contending team IMO. There are risks but it's the only way to get above where we are now (unless we want to be bottom feeders and rely on high picks for several years). We only have so many assets, we need to improve on those assets if we want to get anywhere.

Draft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 06:18 PM
  #232
Souffle
A soupçon of nutmeg
 
Souffle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Le Creuset
Country: France
Posts: 3,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
And did you miss the whole you build a team with quality players who show up at playoffs and don't someone who gets manhandled by his own shadow.

I know Pleks is not a Lucic but compared to DD he plays like a Chara. To win you raise the talent level of your team and with the Habs if you have to unload a c-man then it's DD. Not EFFING Pleks.
Okay, but if the best return for DD is a 3rd round pick and the best return for Plekanec is top 6 winger or a top 4 defenceman, and you have Eller and Galchenyuk and possibly Lecavalier, how does trading Plekanec instead of Desharnais lower the overall talent of the team?

Souffle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 06:19 PM
  #233
Chris Cutter
BELIEVE IN DOUGLAS
 
Chris Cutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Beauce
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,161
vCash: 500
I don't get some people here, I think we all agree that Desharnais can GTFO the team and when we get the chance to replace him with Lecavalier, some people want to keep the dwarf and trade our best center, what the **** is wrong with you people...

I don't care that Plek has more value than DD, with VL we're a contender and trading away Plek makes us worse short term AND long term since Vinny is already 33 years old.

Chris Cutter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 06:21 PM
  #234
Draft
Registered User
 
Draft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,975
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
And did you miss the whole you build a team with quality players who show up at playoffs and don't someone who gets manhandled by his own shadow.

I know Pleks is not a Lucic but compared to DD he plays like a Chara. To win you raise the talent level of your team and with the Habs if you have to unload a c-man then it's DD. Not EFFING Pleks.
It's not a choice between Plekanec and Desharnais. It's a choice between building a contending team around Galchenyuk and Eller as our 1-2 or trying to win now and building around Desharnais and Plekanec as a 1-2.

We can't just stay still, we won't get anywhere with that. We either make a move to build a contending team now or build for the future. I'm more interested in building for the future.

Draft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 06:22 PM
  #235
CoconutHockey
Registered User
 
CoconutHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 68
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draft View Post
No, but we can expect to rely on them. Building for the future, dealing with potentials and expectations is our only real hope of building a contending team IMO. There are risks but it's the only way to get above where we are now (unless we want to be bottom feeders and rely on high picks for several years). We only have so many assets, we need to improve on those assets if we want to get anywhere.
That is exactly what Philadelphia did this year.. After trading Richards&Carter, they decided to rely on the young players (Schenn, Couturier, Read, etc.) to carry their team. Yes they also had poor goaltending, but rushing the kids might not be beneficial to their development, let alone the success of your team.

This is why it is so important so have good vets around to teach the kids how to win in the NHL, to develop a winning culture within the organization.

CoconutHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 06:23 PM
  #236
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
 
waffledave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,352
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by idk View Post
While I don't disagree with you (well, I do - I don't think Vinnie is putrid defensively, I do think he is on the low end of what I'd call average though) one of the biggest problems we've had lately with Tomas is that he essentially plays first line minutes, first PP unit minutes and first PK unit minutes and by the end of the season he's worn out? Would it hurt us to get a gifted centre to play first line plus PP, find a strong defensive centre (like say Jeff Halpern, who are literally a dime a dozen in the NHL) and let him play first line PK and move Plekanec for a gift 1/2 line winger and a prospect or a pick?
Wouldn't it be better to get Vinny AND keep Pleks in this scenario?

I don't understand why anyone would want to trade this guy.

__________________
Yours in Christ,

waffledave
waffledave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 06:25 PM
  #237
onice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Souffle View Post
Okay, but if the best return for DD is a 3rd round pick and the best return for Plekanec is top 6 winger or a top 4 defenceman, and you have Eller and Galchenyuk and possibly Lecavalier, how does trading Plekanec instead of Desharnais lower the overall talent of the team?
You talk like Lecavalier is a slam dunk and i won't disagree with you. I'll go along with you.

So i ask what is a better formation:

Pleks Lecav & Eller

or

Lecav, Eller & DD with a top 6 winger or top 4 dman.

I'm sorry to say because I love the kid but from the putrid performance DD put on these playoffs, I go with the first formation.

onice is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 06:30 PM
  #238
idk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 348
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Wouldn't it be better to get Vinny AND keep Pleks in this scenario?

I don't understand why anyone would want to trade this guy.
Sure, but aside from Vince and Tomas we still have Desharnais, Eller, Galchenyuk, White, Dumont and Leblanc all vying for spots in the lineup. That's eight guys vying for four sports. That's a logjam. And of all those players Tomas is the most tradeable (Desharnais' value is at a nadir, Galchenyuk is too valuable potential wise, Eller - well, we could trade him but I think it would be a worse mistake then trading Tomas at this point, the other three are worthless on the trade market). Moving Tomas might net us something very valuable for something that we have in excess.

idk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 06:37 PM
  #239
Avim86
Registered User
 
Avim86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montreal , Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,510
vCash: 500
Plekanec + Diaz + pick[2nd/3rd] for Bobby Ryan get it done Marc.

Sign Vinny.

A.Galchenyuk - V.Lecavalier - B.Ryan
M.Pacioretty - L.Eller - B.Gallagher
R.Bourque - D.Desharnais - B.Gionta
B.Prust - R.White - L.Leblanc

Subban - Gorges
Markov - Emelin
Tinordi - Bouillon
Drew/beaulieu


Last edited by Avim86: 06-28-2013 at 06:46 PM.
Avim86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 06:39 PM
  #240
onice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by idk View Post
Sure, but aside from Vince and Tomas we still have Desharnais, Eller, Galchenyuk, White, Dumont and Leblanc all vying for spots in the lineup. That's eight guys vying for four sports. That's a logjam. And of all those players Tomas is the most tradeable (Desharnais' value is at a nadir, Galchenyuk is too valuable potential wise, Eller - well, we could trade him but I think it would be a worse mistake then trading Tomas at this point, the other three are worthless on the trade market). Moving Tomas might net us something very valuable for something that we have in excess.
Come playoffs DD is useless. Chuckie is not ready for c-men duties. White is a sometimes 4th c-man. Dumont played what 6 games last year? Leblanc will never play center for the Habs. He's going to be a winger.


Pleks
Eller
a terrible DD during the playoffs
a part time White

So where is this logjam you're talking about?

onice is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 06:40 PM
  #241
overlords
Global Moderator
Jack Arse
 
overlords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,126
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avim86 View Post
Plekanec + Diaz + pick for Bobby Ryan get it done Marc.
Then the habs fanbase wonders for years why they keep getting scored on.

__________________



"overlords is one of my favorite people on this entire site." - Hfboards
overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 06:44 PM
  #242
Dean Ambrose
Moderator
Just a little crazy
 
Dean Ambrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Parts Unknown
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,233
vCash: 133
Why would fans actually want our best defensive forward and one of our more complete players to be traded? I'd much rather have Desharnais traded over Plekanec (and Eller/Galchenyuk for that matter, too).

The only way Bergevin should ever consider trading Plekanec is if the return brings someone in who could immediately fill that hole plus more. Plekanec is very valuable to this team for his play.

__________________
He's got the whole world in his hands...
Dean Ambrose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 06:48 PM
  #243
Avim86
Registered User
 
Avim86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montreal , Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,510
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Then the habs fanbase wonders for years why they keep getting scored on.
I think if we play a smart system we can get by without Plekanec (Eller has a similar skillset , maybe not as speedy but very good at playing keep away with the puck on the PK).

We are having defensive issues with Plekanec , I think our problem isn't amongst our forward group , more our defensive core is desperately lacking a physical Defensive D.
When you have to depend on Bouillon and Gorges to deliver the goods in that area you know you're in trouble , Emelin in my eyes is our only threat in the defensive department (sometimes Subban when he is in that mood) .

Avim86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 06:49 PM
  #244
couris
Registered User
 
couris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,988
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Then the habs fanbase wonders for years why they keep getting scored on.
yeah...because trading plekanec will make us for years getting scored on

couris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 06:49 PM
  #245
Chris Cutter
BELIEVE IN DOUGLAS
 
Chris Cutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Beauce
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPrice 31 View Post
Why would fans actually want our best defensive forward and one of our more complete players to be traded? I'd much rather have Desharnais traded over Plekanec (and Eller/Galchenyuk for that matter, too).

The only way Bergevin should ever consider trading Plekanec is if the return brings someone in who could immediately fill that hole plus more. Plekanec is very valuable to this team for his play.
Exactly, some people don't understand how important Plek is to this team, he's underappreciated the same way our former captain was during his time here. Some people can't get over their size obsession.

Chris Cutter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 06:51 PM
  #246
Avim86
Registered User
 
Avim86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montreal , Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,510
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPrice 31 View Post
Why would fans actually want our best defensive forward and one of our more complete players to be traded? I'd much rather have Desharnais traded over Plekanec (and Eller/Galchenyuk for that matter, too).

The only way Bergevin should ever consider trading Plekanec is if the return brings someone in who could immediately fill that hole plus more. Plekanec is very valuable to this team for his play.
We don't want to trade one our best defensive center but you have to give something to get , you aren't getting Stastny/Ryan or any other decent player with any package of DD + it's not going to happen.

Avim86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 06:54 PM
  #247
couris
Registered User
 
couris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,988
vCash: 500
Dave Nonis: "Ton of high profile players on the trade market"

Do it Marc.

couris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 06:54 PM
  #248
Chris Cutter
BELIEVE IN DOUGLAS
 
Chris Cutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Beauce
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avim86 View Post
We don't want to trade one our best defensive center but you have to give something to get , you aren't getting Stastny/Ryan or any other decent player with any package of DD + it's not going to happen.
We have no need for another center if VL signs here so why would we go for Stastny. Ryan is overrated just like Nash was and they're looking for a defenseman anyway.

Chris Cutter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 06:57 PM
  #249
Avim86
Registered User
 
Avim86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montreal , Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,510
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
We have no need for another center if VL signs here so why would we go for Stastny. Ryan is overrated just like Nash was and they're looking for a defenseman anyway.
Even if Vinny does sign here he can play wing , he has stated this in numerous interviews.
He's played wing to Stamkos especially on the pp.

Avim86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2013, 07:03 PM
  #250
Chris Cutter
BELIEVE IN DOUGLAS
 
Chris Cutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Beauce
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avim86 View Post
Even if Vinny does sign here he can play wing , he has stated this in numerous interviews.
He's played wing to Stamkos especially on the pp.
So you're telling me we've been missing a big talented center ever since Pierre Turgeon left this city and when we finally get one with Lecavalier, we'd be stupid enough to play him on wing?!? You guys just want to do moves for the sake of making moves, none of this makes our team better today or long term.

Chris Cutter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:02 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.