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Soon to be Oilers???

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Old
09-26-2003, 12:55 PM
  #1
Mowzie
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Soon to be Oilers???

not to beat this comrie thing worse than it has been the last few weeks, but without suggesting your own trade pruposals, even though im sure this thread will degenerate into that, but from the names that keep coming up who do you guys think is the best fit to come back to e-town? i also added a UFA that I'd like to see in town.

names that have came up are...
-detroit (datsyuk, dandenault, fischer, draper)
-nashville (legwand)
-boston (boynton)
-atlanta (stefan, exelby)
-UFA (Ronning)

Datsyuk- a soon to be elite center, his name has come up alot, maybe just wishful thinking on our part, but i will break it down anyways. if he was to come here, we would probably have to anti-up alot more than mike comrie; likely a Rita and a pick.

dandenault- here's an intriguing name, dandenault is a solid defenseman who is actually a foreward (another staios). barried in the depth chart behind some of the leagues elite (lidstrom, chelios, hatcher, schneider) dandenault has the capabilities of being a top 4 guy, and has the speed and puck movement that would add another element for simmer's new look pp.

fischer- another d-man barried in the depth chart, fischer has the potential to be a top 4 guy perhaps more so than dandenault, but his wonky knee might be a deterant in any trade talks. he utilizes his size a bit as well being 6'5.

draper- draper is someone who i think the oilers can use. his pk skills are among the leagues best, he can play ALL 3 forward positions and he knows what it takes to win. one thing the oilers have lacked the last 6 yrs is a guy who knows what it takes to win. all of the oil vets have went from youthful prospects to vets (smith, smyth, moreau) as oilers and don't know how or what it takes to get over the hump. getting draper would bring some rings into the dressing room and some success stories that might make our guys a little hungrier. if edmonton was a destination for draper, i think that moreau would have to be shipped out.

Legwand- this kid has alot of potential, but has not fully developed yet. he would be a solid guy to get in return as he has the size and skills to be a #1 centre. if the oil wanted this to work, chances are there would have to be guys added on both sides.

boynton- a top 2 defenseman that has has flattened out his learning curve at the tender age of 24. would sure things up on the blueline, with the uncertainty of cory cross (looked pretty bad in camp), the virgin skates of bergeron and luoma, although both have impressed early. he can be used in all situations and emerged as the #1 d-man in beentown last year. this might be a guy who we can get strait across.

Stefan- more untapped potential, exactly what Kevin Lowe looks for when making a trade, the potential to be a #1 C/LW, but forced to play a more modest role behind Heatley and Kovalchuk. his defensive skills are improving but he still needs alot of work, but who else would like to see him centre an all czech line with dvorak and hemsky???

Exelby- the poster boy for stay at home defenseman, this kid would look good in oil silks because he loves to take the body, and is pretty responsible in his own end, but might need to tame his temperment a tad. only 22, his best years are ahead of him.

Ronning- this guy will be a good replacement if comrie was dealt for a defenceman, a one yr deal could be worked without to much financial stess on the budget, he has no size and a fair amount of speed, even at his age, might be more of a character guy, but can still be good for 30/40 points. another vet that will bring intangeables to the club.

So that is a little rundown of guys we might see in Oiler silks sooner rather than later. any preferences?

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09-26-2003, 01:02 PM
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Don't ever discount any Rangers.

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09-26-2003, 01:05 PM
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If you're tossing around names like Datsayuk it looks like you're going to be greatly disappointed. Roger Millions commented on the situation in Edmonton and it is not looking pretty. He said, "One saw a proposed deal with Anaheim fall through..Not good enough...Another talked about the Rangers..again not good enough. The bottom line is I will be surprised if a trade comes anytime soon. There simply will not be a lot offered in return." This looks like its going to play out just like the Marc Savard situation did.

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09-26-2003, 01:06 PM
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IMO Datsyuk DOES NOT have more value then Comrie. I mean hell the guy played with Brett Hull and only had fifty points! Comrie played with Smyth and a gimp hand for part of the season and equaled that point total! Also Datsyuk isn't even young!!!!! He's gonna be 26 this year! So what you see is damn close to what you get! Comrie is younger, played with inferior linemates on an inferior team, and has scored WAY more then him in their two years each. If the Oiler trade Comrie for Datsyuk I'll be mad. If they trade Comrie and Rita (or anything of value) I'll be ABSOLUTELY FURIOUS!

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09-26-2003, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
If you're tossing around names like Datsayuk it looks like you're going to be greatly disappointed. Roger Millions commented on the situation in Edmonton and it is not looking pretty. He said, "One saw a proposed deal with Anaheim fall through..Not good enough...Another talked about the Rangers..again not good enough. The bottom line is I will be surprised if a trade comes anytime soon. There simply will not be a lot offered in return." This looks like its going to play out just like the Marc Savard situation did.
the names i heard were Lundamrk and a pick for Comrie. I would turn that down too.

The other was centered on Chistov which kinda suprised me. I would take chistov and run if he was offered

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09-26-2003, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieHard
Draper??? The only place that could use him is a plastic surgery clinic.

WOW, THAT IS SUPRISINGLY SHALLOW, COME OVER TO WEST EDMONTON SO I CAN RUN YOUR HEAD INTO A CEMENT WALL AND THEN WHILE YOU ARE RECOVERING WE CAN CRACK JOKES AND TALK TRADES.

Too old, career 3rd liner with very limited offensive upside. No, you can forget him.

YA, BECAUSE THE LAST THING OILERS NEED IS AN EXPERIENCED VETERAN WHO BRINGS DEPTH, SPEED, PK AND FACEOFF PROWESS, FLEXIBILITY, LOCKER ROOM INTANGEABLES AND A FEW STANLEY CUP RINGS.

Comrie for Fischer? Needs some fine-tuning but the basics are there.
THANKS, REMEMBER THAT THESE ARE NOT ALL ONE FOR ONE TRADES, JUST NAMES AND QUALITIES OF GUYS WHO HAVE BEEN BUZZING AROUND THE TRADE WIRE.

IT'S ALL GOOD THOUGH DIEHARD, IM NOT GONNA WRINKLE MY KERRY TACO JERSEY OVER A LITTLE DISAGREEMENT, LOL.

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09-26-2003, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
If you're tossing around names like Datsayuk it looks like you're going to be greatly disappointed. Roger Millions commented on the situation in Edmonton and it is not looking pretty. He said, "One saw a proposed deal with Anaheim fall through..Not good enough...Another talked about the Rangers..again not good enough. The bottom line is I will be surprised if a trade comes anytime soon. There simply will not be a lot offered in return." This looks like its going to play out just like the Marc Savard situation did.
Except Lowe won't trade him for bum return. Comrie isn't costing them anything right now, like Savard was Calgary. Calgary was simply dumping Savard. Comrie would have to be traded for good value for Lowe to move him. There could be an arguement that he might not get FAIR value, but it won't be like Savard. Comrie is younger, as good or better offensively, and isn't costing the Oilers a penny.

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09-26-2003, 01:18 PM
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We'll see how long it takes for Lowe to react. Having a first line of Isbister-Smyth-Hemsky should likely get Lowe searching for a deal high and low pretty quick (really, that is one of the worst first lines in all of hockey). In the west, a bad star can end your season early. If the Comrie situation drags out into November I can see Edmonton being behind the eight ball and out of the race by Christmas. Its bad enough that the defense is short a quality player or two. Lowe defintiely doesn't have the luxury of having a top six forward sit. He just doesn't have the organizational depth to do so. He'll deal soon, or get really screwed when he is desperate and every GM in the league knows it.

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09-26-2003, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
IMO Datsyuk DOES NOT have more value then Comrie. I mean hell the guy played with Brett Hull and only had fifty points! Comrie played with Smyth and a gimp hand for part of the season and equaled that point total! Also Datsyuk isn't even young!!!!! He's gonna be 26 this year! So what you see is damn close to what you get! Comrie is younger, played with inferior linemates on an inferior team, and has scored WAY more then him in their two years each. If the Oiler trade Comrie for Datsyuk I'll be mad. If they trade Comrie and Rita (or anything of value) I'll be ABSOLUTELY FURIOUS!

#5....i'm surprised it turned into this so quickly.

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09-26-2003, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
Except Lowe won't trade him for bum return. Comrie isn't costing them anything right now, like Savard was Calgary. Calgary was simply dumping Savard. Comrie would have to be traded for good value for Lowe to move him. There could be an arguement that he might not get FAIR value, but it won't be like Savard. Comrie is younger, as good or better offensively, and isn't costing the Oilers a penny.
Isn't costing them anything? What about offensive production from a team that can't score?

If Comrie holds out, the oilers can't afford to hold out.

By the way, you sound like an old flames fan. Kindy creepy that they too were mentioning Datsyuk and Fischer for Savard.

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09-26-2003, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavel datsyuk
Isn't costing them anything? What about offensive production from a team that can't score?

If Comrie holds out, the oilers can't afford to hold out.

By the way, you sound like an old flames fan. Kindy creepy that they too were mentioning Datsyuk and Fischer for Savard.
lol - I hate the flames, sry. The Oilers can't score? they were ninth in the league in goals. They can score.

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09-26-2003, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
We'll see how long it takes for Lowe to react. Having a first line of Isbister-Smyth-Hemsky should likely get Lowe searching for a deal high and low pretty quick (really, that is one of the worst first lines in all of hockey). In the west, a bad star can end your season early. If the Comrie situation drags out into November I can see Edmonton being behind the eight ball and out of the race by Christmas. Its bad enough that the defense is short a quality player or two. Lowe defintiely doesn't have the luxury of having a top six forward sit. He just doesn't have the organizational depth to do so. He'll deal soon, or get really screwed when he is desperate and every GM in the league knows it.
worst first line in hockey? Your funny. The Oilers have more organizational depth then the Flames do in their dreams! The Oilers have a big surplus of forwards. And defensively they have a fine top seven in Brewer, Smith, Semenov, Staios, Cross, Bergeron, Ferguson - not to mention Luoma looks like he'll be a good third pairing Dman in the near future. Then there is always Lynch who is about a year away from challenging for a top six spot.

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09-26-2003, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowzie
THANKS, REMEMBER THAT THESE ARE NOT ALL ONE FOR ONE TRADES, JUST NAMES AND QUALITIES OF GUYS WHO HAVE BEEN BUZZING AROUND THE TRADE WIRE.

IT'S ALL GOOD THOUGH DIEHARD, IM NOT GONNA WRINKLE MY KERRY TACO JERSEY OVER A LITTLE DISAGREEMENT, LOL.
Must be one last shot before the banning. Best grow up son.

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09-26-2003, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by thome_26
The Oilers can't score? they were ninth in the league in goals. They can score.
Gone from those 231 goals are Anson Carter (25), Todd Marchant (20), Mike Comrie (20), Janne Niinimaa (4) and Dan Cleary (4). That's 73 goals. In are Radek Dvorak, Brad Isbister and Cory Cross. Sorry, but Dvorak will be lucky to make up Marchant's numbers and Isbister will be exceptionally lucky to make up Comrie's numbers. Cross will be hard pressed to make up Niinimaa's numbers. Cleary is inconsequential, but Carter's loss is a killer. 25 goals gonzo and unlikely to be replaced easily. 231 goals is going to be a pipe dream for Edmonton this year. And keeping the goals against under 230 will likely be a struggle as well. It could be a very long year in Edmonton with all the losses. There is not a team in this league that can lose three of its top five scorers, and its number one defenseman, and not take a healthy drop in the standings.

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09-26-2003, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
Gone from those 231 goals are Anson Carter (25), Todd Marchant (20), Mike Comrie (20), Janne Niinimaa (4) and Dan Cleary (4). That's 73 goals. In are Radek Dvorak, Brad Isbister and Cory Cross. Sorry, but Dvorak will be lucky to make up Marchant's numbers and Isbister will be exceptionally lucky to make up Comrie's numbers. Cross will be hard pressed to make up Niinimaa's numbers. Cleary is inconsequential, but Carter's loss is a killer. 25 goals gonzo and unlikely to be replaced easily. 231 goals is going to be a pipe dream for Edmonton this year. And keeping the goals against under 230 will likely be a struggle as well. It could be a very long year in Edmonton with all the losses. There is not a team in this league that can lose three of its top five scorers, and its number one defenseman, and not take a healthy drop in the standings.
except a healthy Smyth, a healthy York and a full season of Hemsky will easily make up the difference. Dvorak + Hemsky + Isbister will be damn close to what Carter + Marchant(career third liner, no more) + Comrie will get. not to mention the team is fairly young and haven't touched what their careers averages will be 10 down the road. Plus, if the Oilers either sign or trade Comrie, they'll get somethign that will help them out there.

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09-26-2003, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
Gone from those 231 goals are Anson Carter (25), Todd Marchant (20), Mike Comrie (20), Janne Niinimaa (4) and Dan Cleary (4). That's 73 goals. In are Radek Dvorak, Brad Isbister and Cory Cross. Sorry, but Dvorak will be lucky to make up Marchant's numbers and Isbister will be exceptionally lucky to make up Comrie's numbers. Cross will be hard pressed to make up Niinimaa's numbers. Cleary is inconsequential, but Carter's loss is a killer. 25 goals gonzo and unlikely to be replaced easily. 231 goals is going to be a pipe dream for Edmonton this year. And keeping the goals against under 230 will likely be a struggle as well. It could be a very long year in Edmonton with all the losses. There is not a team in this league that can lose three of its top five scorers, and its number one defenseman, and not take a healthy drop in the standings.
You wish.

The increase of Hemsky, Isbister, Dvorak, with Smyth, York healthy and Horcoff improving should be something to offset the loss. Bergeron will make up the Niinimaa goals,(As well as improved Semenov and more go to for Brewer) and as for Cleary, Rita or Torres will outscore him by far and if not them, Chimera. Cleary was a bag of horsebung on the ice(Off the ice, class act), so that is a plus because whoever coming in will outscore him.

Now defensively...that could be another story.

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09-26-2003, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
You wish.

The increase of Hemsky, Isbister, Dvorak, with Smyth, York healthy and Horcoff improving should be something to offset the loss. Bergeron will make up the Niinimaa goals,(As well as improved Semenov and more go to for Brewer) and as for Cleary, Rita or Torres will outscore him by far and if not them, Chimera. Cleary was a bag of horsebung on the ice(Off the ice, class act), so that is a plus because whoever coming in will outscore him.

Now defensively...that could be another story.
I think the Oilers will b just fine defensively this year. Salo should rebound from his worst year in Edmonton, and the addition of some bigger bodies will help keep leads. I could easily see the Oilers finishing in the 5-6 spot in the west. All they have to do is partly combine what they did defensively two years ago and offensively last year.

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09-26-2003, 02:25 PM
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Hahaha! Keep on grasping at those straws Lanny, its actually quite funny!

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09-26-2003, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by thome_26
worst first line in hockey? Your funny. The Oilers have more organizational depth then the Flames do in their dreams! The Oilers have a big surplus of forwards. And defensively they have a fine top seven in Brewer, Smith, Semenov, Staios, Cross, Bergeron, Ferguson - not to mention Luoma looks like he'll be a good third pairing Dman in the near future. Then there is always Lynch who is about a year away from challenging for a top six spot.
I think Lanny brings up a number of good points. The fourth line of the Oilers is pretty terrible - realistically, it could start with a combined under 80-games experience (Rita/Stoll/Pisani). Good young players, but not good NHL players. Yet.

I would say that the Oilers top 7 defensemen are in the bottom 5 - 10 in the league as well. Outside of Brewer and Smith, you have Staios whom I love, but may or may not have overacheived, Semenov who is only a sophmore, Cross who has had a storried career of ups & downs depending on how you look at it, Bergeron with all of 6 games of NHL experience, and Ferguson who has to be the most inept defenseman I've seen since Hans Jonsson on the Penguins. Lowe needs to get another D-man.

And without that D-Man, I feel the Oilers could be competing in a basement bowl. Average age of 24 is just pathetic, a coach who manages to create perhaps the leagues worst power play last year with pretty decent scoring talent, and a goaltender who is extremely unpredictable. The Oilers have it a lot worse than I think their fans are willing to admit.

However, I should also add this: The Oilers are one of the best teams in this league at pulling together & making up for their deficiencies as a group. We'll see if they can do it again this year, but if they cannot, it'll be a hell of a year.

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09-26-2003, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
There is not a team in this league that can lose three of its top five scorers, and its number one defenseman, and not take a healthy drop in the standings.
Geez, looking at that list I'm kind of encouraged by the Oilers depth chart this fall. Marchant was playing out of position (1lineC) to get his 20, Carter got 26 but Dvorak should be good for 15-20, and the kid Hemsky will likely improve on his total (6) to make up the difference on the right side.

The Oilers will certainly have to look at the quality of puck moving defensemen this winter, and that could give a clue about Comrie's next home.

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09-26-2003, 03:17 PM
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[QUOTE=Mizral]I think Lanny brings up a number of good points. The fourth line of the Oilers is pretty terrible - realistically, it could start with a combined under 80-games experience (Rita/Stoll/Pisani). Good young players, but not good NHL players. Yet.[QUOTE]

I think a 4thline of Torres/Horcoff/Laraque is a lot more realistic and likely they have 522 games of experience combined and the most likely of being cut of the three is Torres(31 games)

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09-26-2003, 03:25 PM
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[QUOTE=FacelessButcher][QUOTE=Mizral]I think Lanny brings up a number of good points. The fourth line of the Oilers is pretty terrible - realistically, it could start with a combined under 80-games experience (Rita/Stoll/Pisani). Good young players, but not good NHL players. Yet.
Quote:

I think a 4thline of Torres/Horcoff/Laraque is a lot more realistic and likely they have 522 games of experience combined and the most likely of being cut of the three is Torres(31 games)
I completely agree, but if you look at the third line then, it'd likely be something like Rita/Reasoner/Pisani, if you look at most Oiler fans' mock lineup sheets. That leaves three guys with precious little NHL experience in Rita, Torres, and Pisani on the 3rd and 4th lines, and it's not like Horcoff is a seasoned veteran either. The bottom two lines in Edmonton do not look so hot.

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09-26-2003, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
I completely agree, but if you look at the third line then, it'd likely be something like Rita/Reasoner/Pisani, if you look at most Oiler fans' mock lineup sheets. That leaves three guys with precious little NHL experience in Rita, Torres, and Pisani on the 3rd and 4th lines, and it's not like Horcoff is a seasoned veteran either. The bottom two lines in Edmonton do not look so hot.
Here's our 3rd and fourth lines (or something like this):

Moreau-Reasoner-Rita/Pisani
Torres-Horcoff-Laraque

We also have Chimer who scored 16 in limited time that would fit in there some where. Our bottom two lines are in the top ten in the league buddy. Especially our fourth line. One of the best in the NHL easily. Vancouver should be inquiring about some of the Oilers forwards!

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09-26-2003, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
I completely agree, but if you look at the third line then, it'd likely be something like Rita/Reasoner/Pisani, if you look at most Oiler fans' mock lineup sheets. That leaves three guys with precious little NHL experience in Rita, Torres, and Pisani on the 3rd and 4th lines, and it's not like Horcoff is a seasoned veteran either. The bottom two lines in Edmonton do not look so hot.
Three most likely line combos i see:
1)Isbister-Smyth-Hemsky(my favorite line-up)
Chimera-York-Dvorak
Moreau-Reasoner-Rita
Torres-Horcoff-Laraque(Pisani if Torres doesn't work)

2)Smyth-York-Dvorak(If Smyth experiment fails)
Isbister-Horcoff-Hemsky(Horc's a good two player ready for a larger role)
Moreau-Reasoner-Pisani
Chimera-Stoll-Laraque

3)Smyth-Horcoff-Hemsky(Smyth experiment fails #2)
Isbister-York-Dvorak
Moreau-Reasoner-Rita
Pisani-Stoll-Laraque

I am fairly confident in all these lines all Edmonton really needs is a depth center in case Smyth does not work out for center and Stoll is not quite ready. Once Comrie is traded/signs I am sure whatever weakness we have will be filled. Also both Pisani(better defensive upside) and Rita(better offensive upside) are two-way players so they should not be giving up many goals. Only line I think looks weak is the 2nd combo 2nd line but every other line in the examples has atleast one player with over 300games experience on the line

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09-26-2003, 04:03 PM
  #25
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Hahaha! Keep on grasping at those straws Lanny, its actually quite funny!
Wow, that's a real brilliant post as to how the Oilers are going to improve. You sure showed me. Hey, how about you tell me how the Oilers are better off and try and come up with a convincing argument, which hasn't been presented to this point.

Gone...

Anson Carter (25)... average 20-30 goal guy per season, while playing only 50-65 games a season. All he did was score goals when the team needed them.

Todd Marchant (20)... solid 10-15 goal guy, and up until his signing with Columbus, what Oiler fans liked to call the best third line center in the game. Now he's over-rated and a mediocre third liner.

Mike Comrie (20)... we know about Comrie and what he does and doesn't bring to the table. The funny thing is that before the hold-out/lock-out, Oiler fans were talking this guy up as a top line center and key player that would make the Oilers a serious playoff threat. Now, he's questionable.

Janne Niinimaa (4)... 5-10 goals a season and solid all around game. Always solid and was the guy that made the Oiler's PP tick. Any connection between the Oilers' PP taking a dump after he was traded? Nawwww, he's over-rated and is a third rate defender that can be replaced by minor leaguers.

New Guys...

Brad Isbister (13)... numbers keep getting worse and worse, declining from his career high of 22 to last season's 13, which just happens o be his career average. Oh wait, he's the next Todd Bertuzzi and is a lock for a career year in Edmonton and not continue to be the underachiever he's been his whole career, so 35-40 isn't out of the question.

Radek Dvorak (10)... had ONE big year and has been living off of that reputation ever since. Including that big year he's still a career 17 goal scorer. Take that big year away and he's a 10-15 goal guy. It will be interesting to see whether he can get back to the level he was at three seasons ago, or be the disappointment that got him bounced from Florida and New York.

Alice Hemsky (6)... okay, the kid can dangle, but he doesn't go to the net and doesn't have a great shot. He is a wicked passer, but not a goal scorer. I just don't see how anyone can realistically expect a player of Hemsky's ilk to turn into a goal scorer? One thing I really do find interesting is how some teams that project using youngsters are immediately discounted, but the Oilers don't have this natural bugbear jump out and bite them. It just doen't add up. BTW... what if Hemsky ends up going through a sophmore jinx? Then what?

Marc Andre Bergeron (1)... is going to replace Niinimaa? WTF??? How can anyone honestly say this and think they can be taken seriously? A raw, under-sized rookie is going to replace the Oiler's top offensive defenseman and pop 4 goals and 30 points? Hmmmm, sounds like ROTY type numbers from a defenseman. So this is what we can expect from Bergeron? Wow, its going to be an exciting year for certain.

Its going to be a really interesting year. Established players aren't needed in Edmonton, they have the best depth in the NHL up front and all their rookies and minor leaguers are going to pick up the slack. I'm really shocked that more teams haven't gone this route before? Hey, I see Nashville is doing the same thing with their defense. Maybe the Oilers and the Preds can get together and put their teams together. The Oilers forwards and the Preds defensemen as surely the perfect match and a certain Stanley Cup contender.


Lanny MacDonald* is offline  
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