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Old
08-15-2013, 07:00 PM
  #276
MarkGio
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I like Stajan as much as the next guy. In fact I might have been one of the few who has defended him during his career lows, but I can see where the hate comes from. People have seen how low Stajan can go, and now that he's at a high point again, it might be smart stock marketing to trade him.

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08-15-2013, 08:04 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
I like Stajan as much as the next guy. In fact I might have been one of the few who has defended him during his career lows, but I can see where the hate comes from. People have seen how low Stajan can go, and now that he's at a high point again, it might be smart stock marketing to trade him.
I am fully on board with trading several vets with expiring contracts at the deadline if we are out and the rookies don't seem over their heads without them.

I think we need Stajan to help smooth the transition for our rookies and to help them out in practice and then see what we can get at the deadline. I think realistically we can get,

Cammy - late first or 2nd + decent prospect
Stajan - 2nd
Stemps - 2nd
Jackman - anything

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08-15-2013, 08:11 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
I am fully on board with trading several vets with expiring contracts at the deadline if we are out and the rookies don't seem over their heads without them.

I think we need Stajan to help smooth the transition for our rookies and to help them out in practice and then see what we can get at the deadline. I think realistically we can get,

Cammy - late first or 2nd + decent prospect
Stajan - 2nd
Stemps - 2nd
Jackman - anything
Yeah but if Stemps and Stajan play like you projected, they could potentially garner another 1st round pick. I think 3 first round picks in 2 drafts would be the best possible scenario in ANY rebuild!

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08-15-2013, 08:16 PM
  #279
TheHudlinator
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Yeah but if Stemps and Stajan play like you projected, they could potentially garner another 1st round pick. I think 3 first round picks in 2 drafts would be the best possible scenario in ANY rebuild!
I think it depends on what teams are looking for but it could be possible but I didn't want to be called unrealistic.

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08-15-2013, 08:22 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
I think it depends on what teams are looking for but it could be possible but I didn't want to be called unrealistic.
With top line ice time, they'll definitely have inflated numbers. Besides, both guys are proven depth producers, and both guys have played energy roles before. Perfect for an over paying cup team.

The problem is, its not the market value of the player that will garner the return, its the person negotiating it.

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08-15-2013, 08:23 PM
  #281
TheHudlinator
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
With top line ice time, they'll definitely have inflated numbers. Besides, both guys are proven depth producers, and both guys have played energy roles before. Perfect for an over paying cup team.

The problem is, its not the market value of the player that will garner the return, its the person negotiating it.
Seeing how we got more for Iginla and Jbo than most people thought we would (many didn't think we would get a 1st for Iggy) I will give Feaster the benefit of the doubt.

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08-15-2013, 08:44 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by flameaholic View Post
Again, what a great accomplishment. If you want to keep Stajan/Stempniak around for their hard work and "2-way" game, that's fine. But you don't need to stick them on the top 2 forward lines. They're not top-six forwards, they never have been, they never will be.

If we have to rely on Matt Stajan and Lee Stempniak to produce most of our offence next season, we're in even bigger s#!t than I previously thought.
Yes we do need to stick them on the top 6, do you really expect whatever top line we scramble together to compete with the first lines of quality nhl teams? Our first line will never be able to score more goals than the first lines of most nhl teams so we need to come into the game with a different strategie. One option that might work would be to field a shutdown line as our first line (Composed of solid two way forwards who can handle playing against top line talent) that scores occasionally but is mostly focused on eating up all of the oppositions first line ice time. Then we should have a couple of talented offensive players on our 2/3 lines who can hopefully outmatch their competition and provide us with good secondary scoring.

__________________________________________________ _____________________

Maybe lines like:

1.)Cammy-Stajan-Stempniak: This line could work. They could have their hands full when facing top-drawer competition but then again any line you could put together with our roster as it stands today will not match up well against the leagues better lines. Play these guys against the tough competition and coach them to play with a strong emphasis on defense. These guys can all score occasionally too. Playing first line minutes with Cammy could end up pumping up Stajan and Stempniak's stats, which could be useful come deadline day.

2/3 A.)Glencross-Horak-Hudler: I like this line because Hudler and Horak are both great passers who gel offensively and Glencross should be able to light it up with a line like this. Additionally, if Horak really is the best defensive player on the flames like Babcock says, and he is capable of handling tougher competition, then this line fights with the 2/3B for the second line minutes the whole season.

2/3 B.)Baertschi-Backlund-Jones:This line really depends upon whether or not Jones can play physically but if he can then this line might end up being pretty good. Jones plays the semi-skilled thug who creates space and allows Baertschi and Backlund to play their game. Who knows, maybe Baertschi and Backlund make some big strides next year and provide great secondary scoring! Backlund is also a key piece here due to his defensive chops. Being able to help out what will be a struggling defensive core is very valuable. This line should fight with 2/3B for second unit ice time all season. The hot line gets to play more.

4.)This line is a complete wildcard, it is part doghouse and part stepping stone. I hope that it looks something like this midseason but there are too many people with the ability to surprise/disappoint for this to be anywhere near a set line.

Galiardi-Knight/Reinhart-Bouma


So to recap: We win games by shutting down the oppositions first line, playing a solid two way game with our other middle two lines. We will lose plenty of games, but I think that's a respectable strategy that could actually work out pretty well for us. In addition, this line scheme adds an element of competition to the whole thing. If you want to be on the second line then you have to play like a second liner. It also should pump up the trade value of Stemps/Stajan/Cammy.

__________________________________________________ _____________________

Defense:
1)Giordano-Brodie: According to this link, this was our best possession pairing last year.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?p...2#.Ug1y0JJQG7k

I'm a little skeptical of these stats because I think what's actually happening is that Giordano is moving down onto the second pairing with Brodie and the lower QoC is raising their stats together. That said both of these guys are players and who knows, he surprised us last year, maybe Brodie can step up again. If he can't, Brodie and Wideman switch pairings. Top pairing D is still a huge area of concern for us. This will be where most of our losses come from.

(Bonus points: Does anyone remember what situations Brodie and Gio were under when they were playing together last year? Was Brodie playing top pairing with Gio after Bouwmeester left or did Gio get dropped down onto the second pairing with brodie at different points last year?)

2)Wideman-[Whoever earns the spot!]: Wideman is a lock for second pairing but the spot for his partner is up for grabs. Let the performance of the players decide who belongs here be it Russell/Butler/SOB/Cundari. Our fourth best defenseman plays second pairing.

3)SOB-[Whoever earns the spot!]: I think that at least one of SOB or McGrattan should play no matter what, we need our kids to be protected out there! Aside from that we have lots of D men who are capable of playing here. (Breen/Russell/Butler/Cundari) Hopefully one of the new guys can step up here and we can finally trade Butler for that shiny new bag of pucks we've all wanted for so long!

To recap: Oh my god this defense is sketchy. We actually need to hope for players to surprise us for this defense to work. We will lose plenty of games due to this defensive core next season.

__________________________________________________ ______________________

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08-15-2013, 09:22 PM
  #283
Johnny Hoxville
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Unless Stajan and Stempniak are on pace for 60 pt seasons, a 1st for them may be a stretch. However, if this really is gonna be a weak draft, a late 1st this year may be like a 2nd in last years draft. It really depends on their performance, teams needs, and trade demand. I could actually see Stajan getting a 1st over Stemps because good 2 way centerman, that are good on the dot are always in demand. Most contending teams already have guys like Stempniak but worse case I think he garners a 2nd.

Honestly guys if we are out of it at the deadline trading Gio may be an option. His value at the end of a season when cap hits don't matter, to a team like Philly fighting for a playoff spot may be astronomical.

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08-15-2013, 09:35 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
Unless Stajan and Stempniak are on pace for 60 pt seasons, a 1st for them may be a stretch. However, if this really is gonna be a weak draft, a late 1st this year may be like a 2nd in last years draft. It really depends on their performance, teams needs, and trade demand. I could actually see Stajan getting a 1st over Stemps because good 2 way centerman, that are good on the dot are always in demand. Most contending teams already have guys like Stempniak but worse case I think he garners a 2nd.

Honestly guys if we are out of it at the deadline trading Gio may be an option. His value at the end of a season when cap hits don't matter, to a team like Philly fighting for a playoff spot may be astronomical.
Gio could be moved the year after since he's still under contract. There's no motivation or pressure to move him so soon

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08-15-2013, 09:36 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
Lets see your ideal lineup with our current group of players.
I like the projected lines by NHL.com. Give the kids - Backlund/Monahan/Baertschi/Horak etc. - a chance to prove themselves in the NHL.

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08-15-2013, 09:41 PM
  #286
Johnny Hoxville
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Gio could be moved the year after since he's still under contract. There's no motivation or pressure to move him so soon
Whatever, you just don't wanna change your username!

Seriously though I think it all depends on the return.

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08-15-2013, 09:43 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
Whatever, you just don't wanna change your username!

Seriously though I think it all depends on the return.
Yea I would be on board with trading Gio. I wonder if we can move Gio to NYI for Reinhart +, then draft the last one and collection complete.

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08-15-2013, 09:44 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by flameaholic View Post
I like the projected lines by NHL.com. Give the kids - Backlund/Monahan/Baertschi/Horak etc. - a chance to prove themselves in the NHL.



Did you not read TheHudlinator's post?

Quote:
The problem most people seem to forget is that someone has to play defense. By putting Monahan/Backlund/Knight in a position to defend Kopitar/Sedin/Thornton/etc you are putting them in a position to stuck in their own zone consistently. Sure they may get 20 minutes a night but 19 of them will be running around our zone trying to get the puck that isn't a good way to let young players develop. If we move out Stajan an Stempniak someone will have to take over their 5+ minutes a night on the pk, a pk that was in the top half of the league with some terrible goaltending so which one of Monahan/Backlund/Knight are we going to risk to injury and most likely force into a position they cannot handle.

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08-15-2013, 09:56 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
Whatever, you just don't wanna change your username!

Seriously though I think it all depends on the return.


I probably should've picked a non-player name right from the beginning.

Im not sure what the username etiquette is? Do I give people advance notice? Do I limit it to one name per week? Its a tough decision!

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08-15-2013, 09:58 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Yea I would be on board with trading Gio. I wonder if we can move Gio to NYI for Reinhart +, then draft the last one and collection complete.
We had a Sutter family already. No more nepotism.

What would really suck is if Max becomes the least productive of the bunch

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08-15-2013, 10:08 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
We had a Sutter family already. No more nepotism.

What would really suck is if Max becomes the least productive of the bunch
Well we all know that's never going to happen

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08-15-2013, 10:12 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
We had a Sutter family already. No more nepotism.

What would really suck is if Max becomes the least productive of the bunch
Reinhart is a great defensive prospect to begin with and the Isles could use help no targeting Reinhart just works out and happens to be funny since we might get Sam this year.

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08-15-2013, 10:28 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross View Post


Did you not read TheHudlinator's post?
So you think Matt Stajan can defend Kopitar/Sedin/Thornton etc.?

Trial by fire. If you're not prepared to play against the big boys from a young age, you'll never be prepared. It's like learning how to swim. If you don't jump into the water, you'll never learn how to swim.

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08-15-2013, 10:41 PM
  #294
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Yea I would be on board with trading Gio. I wonder if we can move Gio to NYI for Reinhart +, then draft the last one and collection complete.
That would be hard to say no to, very hard.

MG, your the MOD, you tell us feeble posters what the precedent is. Who are we to question the high and almighty ones? MarkGio does as MarkGio pleases

A suggestion though, you could call yourself Peter Griffin, then you could ask Stewie (your follow almighty one) all the time who his Daddy is?

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08-15-2013, 10:42 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by flameaholic View Post
So you think Matt Stajan can defend Kopitar/Sedin/Thornton etc.?

Trial by fire. If you're not prepared to play against the big boys from a young age, you'll never be prepared. It's like learning how to swim. If you don't jump into the water, you'll never learn how to swim.
Other than the fact that Matt Stajan did in fact defend top lines last year and resulted in a +7 on a very minus filled team, he had the 2nd highest corsi rel QoC after Stempniak and just above Glencross at 1.072, the only other positive regulars were Backlund at .234 and Tanguay at .925 (now gone). Not to mention that outside of Stajan and Stempniaks QoC being the highest on the team at at 1.298 and 1.233 no one on the team had even half that last year.

So last Stajan faced the hardest competition by far and not only did he have a very productive season (top 60 in points by a centermen) but he shut down the other teams best lines more often than not as he was a positive player. Now considering that when he was off the ice we had a goals for of 1.71 (lowest on the team) versus our goals for when he was one 3.32 (highest on the team) as well as him having the highest GA when off the ice shows how he was completely and utterly the best player defensively and most complete player at both ends of the ice.

let me put this in writing one last time.

Stajan and Stempniak were our 2 most complete players last year and need to play in the top 6 to give our rookies sheltered offensive minutes and allow them to slowly adapt to the NHL, they need to take are hard defensive minutes against other teams top lines to make sure our rookies don't get pinned in their own not only for their sakes but for what ever goalie ends up playing as they will need as much help as they can get, I don't care what you think you thought you saw last year as you are not only wrong but ever statistical number proves it as well as everyone else views on what happened.

If we don't make rookies work for ice time then they aren't going to learn anything.

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08-15-2013, 10:51 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by flameaholic View Post
So you think Matt Stajan can defend Kopitar/Sedin/Thornton etc.?

Trial by fire. If you're not prepared to play against the big boys from a young age, you'll never be prepared. It's like learning how to swim. If you don't jump into the water, you'll never learn how to swim.
Atrocious post, seriously just terrible. I don't even know where to begin or why I'm acknowledging how bad it is.

Matt Stajan is our best defensive center, like or him or not. And he has had more success going up against other fellow elite #1's than anyone else on our roster. So how does it make sense to play a rookie against them when it may permanently damage their development?

And as for your ludacris comment about how if a player isn't prepared they will never be, that's a joke right? Are you saying no rookie, 2nd or 3rd year player shows growth from year to year or physical maturation as they grow into their bodies? Where do you come up with this stuff?

Sorry I know your a troll but enough is enough already.

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08-16-2013, 07:37 AM
  #297
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Originally Posted by flameaholic View Post
So you think Matt Stajan can defend Kopitar/Sedin/Thornton etc.?

Trial by fire. If you're not prepared to play against the big boys from a young age, you'll never be prepared. It's like learning how to swim. If you don't jump into the water, you'll never learn how to swim.
Dude, seriously, backlund says hello. A player who has only become very sound defensively the last couple of years.

Even look at Stajan. When he first got here he was brutal. After sutter turned his game around he grew into a solid two way centre who plays with his heart on his sleeve.

Honestly no centre we have is better against top line talent than Stajan right now. Maybe knight will be that guy, or monohan turns into the next skinner. But right now Stajan is the best we have.

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08-16-2013, 08:38 AM
  #298
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Originally Posted by flameaholic View Post
So you think Matt Stajan can defend Kopitar/Sedin/Thornton etc.?

Trial by fire. If you're not prepared to play against the big boys from a young age, you'll never be prepared. It's like learning how to swim. If you don't jump into the water, you'll never learn how to swim.
There's a difference between going in the water and being thrown into the deep end. Your anti-Stajan agenda is incredibly blinding, so much so that you're prepared to put a first-year Monahan up against other teams' top players in favor of our best defensive center. Do you not see the problem with this?

Trial by fire ruins prospects. Get that through your head.

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08-16-2013, 08:43 AM
  #299
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Originally Posted by flameaholic View Post
So you think Matt Stajan can defend Kopitar/Sedin/Thornton etc.?

Trial by fire. If you're not prepared to play against the big boys from a young age, you'll never be prepared. It's like learning how to swim. If you don't jump into the water, you'll never learn how to swim.
Weren't you also preaching last year that Stajan would be our fourth line C?

You had disappeared for a little while, it's a shame that when you came back that you couldn't just leave all the dumb, borderline trollful crap behind.

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08-16-2013, 09:20 AM
  #300
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Originally Posted by flameaholic View Post
So you think Matt Stajan can defend Kopitar/Sedin/Thornton etc.?

Trial by fire. If you're not prepared to play against the big boys from a young age, you'll never be prepared. It's like learning how to swim. If you don't jump into the water, you'll never learn how to swim.
If you think Stajan cannot defend Kopitar/Thornton/Getzlaf, how do you think Monahan or Knight will be able to defend them?

Honestly, think about it for a second.

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