HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Calgary Flames
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2013-14 Line Combos

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-16-2013, 12:27 PM
  #301
Johnny Hoxville
Moderator
Dust Buster
 
Johnny Hoxville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,592
vCash: 50
He has succeeded in getting the reaction out of everyone he wanted, including myself.

Johnny Hoxville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-16-2013, 04:02 PM
  #302
MonahanTheMan
Pray for Flames
 
MonahanTheMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Bellingham, WA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,791
vCash: 500
I think a compromise is necessary. If we play Cammy on wing, then we ought to put Stajan on the first line with Baertschi and Backlund on the second line. If we play Cammy at centre, preserve that Baertschi-Backlund pairing on the second line while moving Stajan to the third line. As an aside, I don't see Monahan making the team on a consistent basis this year, so I'm not factoring him into the lineup.

The point is, though, that we should be playing both Baertschi and Backlund on the second line for the first half of the season at least. Additionally, (and here's where I'll get flamed) if someone *coughcammycough* is moved at the deadline, shuttle Bear and Backs up to the first line, I think they'll be ready for it after spending half a season defending second-liners. And, of course, this doesn't even factor in who'll be playing on their right side, which changes things, too.

In general, while throwing our young players on the first line immediately is a bad idea, they are getting near to the point where they'll have enough experience to play first-line minutes.

MonahanTheMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 04:09 PM
  #303
flameaholic
Registered User
 
flameaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,982
vCash: 500
In other news, Stajan and his 5 goals are ready for next season.

Quote:
"I think for us to be successful, we have to be a good team."


Quote:
Stajan is coming a solid 2012-13 season which saw him register 5 goals and 23 points through 43 games.
That prorates to 9 goals and 45 points over an 82 game season. Great 1st line numbers.

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...id=DL|CGY|home


Last edited by flameaholic: 08-17-2013 at 04:29 PM.
flameaholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 04:17 PM
  #304
TherapyforGlencross
I'm the Man
 
TherapyforGlencross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,613
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameaholic View Post
In other news, Stajan and his 5 goals are ready for next season.







That prorates to 9 goals and 45 points over an 82 game season. Great 1st line numbers.

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...id=DL|CGY|home


Are numbers the only thing you worry about?

TherapyforGlencross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 04:21 PM
  #305
flameaholic
Registered User
 
flameaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,982
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross View Post


Are numbers the only thing you worry about?
Yes, because 1st line centers aren't expected to put up numbers.

flameaholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 04:25 PM
  #306
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,909
vCash: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameaholic View Post
Yes, because 1st line centers aren't expected to put up numbers.
Sure lets have Backlund as the first line center with a career high of 25 points, wait isn't that even lower

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 04:29 PM
  #307
flameaholic
Registered User
 
flameaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,982
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Sure lets have Backlund as the first line center with a career high of 25 points, wait isn't that even lower
You don't get it do you? Backlund is still young and has the potential to grow. Stajan will never be anything more than a 10 goal, 45 point center.

flameaholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 04:33 PM
  #308
TherapyforGlencross
I'm the Man
 
TherapyforGlencross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,613
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameaholic View Post
You don't get it do you? Backlund is still young and has the potential to grow. Stajan will never be anything more than a 10 goal, 45 point center.
Would you rather have a -6 Mikael Backlund playing against Kopitar, or would you rather have +7 Matt Stajan playing against those big centers?

Not only that, but Backlund is known to be injury prone, so there is no need to force him into a position he cannot handle.


Last edited by TherapyforGlencross: 08-17-2013 at 04:39 PM.
TherapyforGlencross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 04:49 PM
  #309
SmellOfVictory
Registered User
 
SmellOfVictory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,117
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross View Post
Would you rather have a -6 Mikael Backlund playing against Kopitar, or would you rather have +7 Matt Stajan playing against those big centers?

Not only that, but Backlund is known to be injury prone, so there is no need to force him into a position he cannot handle.
Backlund, 100%. He's better defensively than Stajan.

SmellOfVictory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 04:54 PM
  #310
FlamingTelepath
Registered User
 
FlamingTelepath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 470
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Stajan
"I think for us to be successful, we have to be a good team."
Quote of the offseason!

FlamingTelepath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 07:12 PM
  #311
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,909
vCash: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
Backlund, 100%. He's better defensively than Stajan.
Really? Because last year Backlund played against weaker competition and was vastly outplayed defensively by Stajan.

Stajan had a Corsi Rel QoC od 1.072 > Backlund's .234

Stajan had a GA on of 2.85 and a GA off of 3.43 for an increase of .58 > than Backlunds .34 increase.

Stajan outplayed Backlund in almost ever measurable way. Backlund is not ready for top line time, giving him second opponents will allow him to try and play more offensive.


Last edited by TheHudlinator: 08-17-2013 at 07:55 PM.
TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 07:37 PM
  #312
BVicious
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,315
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Really? Because last year Backlund played against weaker competition and was vastly outplayed defensively by Stajan.

Stajan had a Corsi Rel QoC od 1.072 > Backlund's .234

Stajan had a GA on of 2.85 and a GA off of 3.43 and increase of .58 > than Backlunds .34 increase.

Stajan outplayed Backlund in almost ever measurable way. Backlund is not ready for top line time, giving him second opponents will allow him to try and play more offensive.
You speak in code. I can read that post 30 times and think I'm reading JavaScript or something.

BVicious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2013, 07:58 PM
  #313
TherapyforGlencross
I'm the Man
 
TherapyforGlencross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,613
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVicious View Post
You speak in code. I can read that post 30 times and think I'm reading JavaScript or something.
Quote:
Corsi REL is a relatively simplistic way of measuring how effective a player is in driving possession relative to the rest of his team. At its most basic level, the stat reflects a player's raw EV Corsi relative to the raw EV Corsi to the rest of the team when he is not on the ice. For example, Robyn Regehr's Corsi REL last year was -11.4, which means ~11 shots more per 60 minutes of even strength ice time were directed at the Flames' net while he was on the ice then when he wasn't. Now, that may seem really terrible (in fact, it was in the bottom third of the league last year-lumped in with superstars like Deryk Engelland, Cody McCormick and Bryan Allen) but when you take into account a couple of other stats, a number that low is to be expected.

Quality of Competition: To put it bluntly, QUALCOMP is the measure of how good the opposing players a player is facing are. It's measured by the player's relative plus/minus (plus/minus of when the player is on the ice / [plus/minus when the player is on the ice + plus/minus when the player is off it]) and it's weighted based on TOI versus the player. A player who has a high QUALCOMP faces good quality competition, or at the very least competition that outscores the rest of their team while they're on the ice. Players who have the best QUALCOMP rating are generally shutdown centres and defenseman, as they are usually the ones tasked with facing the oppositions best players.
http://www.matchsticksandgasoline.co...and-quality-of

TherapyforGlencross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-18-2013, 02:36 AM
  #314
SmellOfVictory
Registered User
 
SmellOfVictory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,117
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Really? Because last year Backlund played against weaker competition and was vastly outplayed defensively by Stajan.

Stajan had a Corsi Rel QoC od 1.072 > Backlund's .234

Stajan had a GA on of 2.85 and a GA off of 3.43 for an increase of .58 > than Backlunds .34 increase.

Stajan outplayed Backlund in almost ever measurable way. Backlund is not ready for top line time, giving him second opponents will allow him to try and play more offensive.
The same stats that indicate that Backlund and Stajan faced 24.9 and 24.0 shots against/60, yet Backlund ended up with 27.9 shots for/60 vs Stajan's 22.7 (Corsi scores of 2.14 vs -3.13 per 60 min). That means Stajan got outshot by 5 more shots per 60 min of playing time than Backlund did. These are also the same stats that show that Backlund started in the o zone 45.4% of the time yet ended in the o zone 52.7% of the time (indicative of the ability to defend and then move the puck up ice) versus Stajan starting in the o zone 42% of the time and only ending in the o zone 43.8% of the time.

In terms of possessing the puck, Backlund is better than Stajan, and most of the stats indicate that he's better at gaining offensive zone time, and maintaining that time. I'm calling this defensive ability because a) I watched the two play, and b) I don't think offensive skills apply as much when you're spending the majority of your time trying to get the puck out of your zone and up through the other two. Although they certainly do apply to some degree as well.

It's true that Stajan faced top lines more often than Backlund did, but they both faced top 6 players, and Stajan had the better linemates defensively by a wide margin, and better offensively, outside of Hudler for Backlund. While Stajan spent most of his time with Glencross and Stempniak (two of the Flames' best even strength wingers), Backlund spent an unforgivable number of shifts with the boat anchor known as Roman Cervenka.

You used metrics in which I put the least stock (qualcomp, which is incredibly finnicky, to say the least, and goals against, which depends on too many external factors), so I don't agree with any of the analysis you put forth aside from a partial agreement on the strength of competetition (but that's from seeing the games vs the qualcomp numbers).


Last edited by SmellOfVictory: 08-18-2013 at 02:43 AM.
SmellOfVictory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2013, 01:55 AM
  #315
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,909
vCash: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
The same stats that indicate that Backlund and Stajan faced 24.9 and 24.0 shots against/60, yet Backlund ended up with 27.9 shots for/60 vs Stajan's 22.7 (Corsi scores of 2.14 vs -3.13 per 60 min). That means Stajan got outshot by 5 more shots per 60 min of playing time than Backlund did. These are also the same stats that show that Backlund started in the o zone 45.4% of the time yet ended in the o zone 52.7% of the time (indicative of the ability to defend and then move the puck up ice) versus Stajan starting in the o zone 42% of the time and only ending in the o zone 43.8% of the time.

In terms of possessing the puck, Backlund is better than Stajan, and most of the stats indicate that he's better at gaining offensive zone time, and maintaining that time. I'm calling this defensive ability because a) I watched the two play, and b) I don't think offensive skills apply as much when you're spending the majority of your time trying to get the puck out of your zone and up through the other two. Although they certainly do apply to some degree as well.

It's true that Stajan faced top lines more often than Backlund did, but they both faced top 6 players, and Stajan had the better linemates defensively by a wide margin, and better offensively, outside of Hudler for Backlund. While Stajan spent most of his time with Glencross and Stempniak (two of the Flames' best even strength wingers), Backlund spent an unforgivable number of shifts with the boat anchor known as Roman Cervenka.

You used metrics in which I put the least stock (qualcomp, which is incredibly finnicky, to say the least, and goals against, which depends on too many external factors), so I don't agree with any of the analysis you put forth aside from a partial agreement on the strength of competetition (but that's from seeing the games vs the qualcomp numbers).
QoC is a very good stat and its only real problem is when you compare teams that don't play the same opponents which means when we compare Backlund and Stajan it is a very significant stat.

I find Corsi by itself to be one of the meaning less stats there is as it only measures shot difference but if a player was very sheltered you would expect them to vastly out shot a shutdown player but it fails to show which one is better defensively.

Backlund is better at transitioning and you won't find me arguing that but I think if he stays in his 2nd line role against lesser opponents it will allow him to use his transitioning game to create offense so he will have a easy time breaking out this year.

Backlund played with Glencross and Stempniak about 20% of his time and Stajan played with Hudler and Cervenka about 15% of his time the difference isn't all that great. You also left out the fact that Backlund got much more pp time in order to produce offensively.

When accounting for the fact both Stajan and Backlund play for the same team QoC is a useful skill it is hard to deny that I don't get what your talking about. Like I said Corsi isn't overally useful unless you account for opponents as it proves basically nothing all you have shown is that against weaker competition Backlund was able to out shoot is opponents when Stajan couldn't but that is to be expected.

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-22-2013, 01:26 PM
  #316
Goflames3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 30
vCash: 500
Hudler - Backlund - Cammalleri
Baertschi - Knight - Jones
Glencross - Monahan - Stempniak
Galiardi - Stajan - Mcgrattan

Giordano - Wideman
Russel - Brodie
Butts - O'Brien

Ramo
Mcdonald

My explanation to why i put the first line together like that is because this year is backs time to shine and deserves to be 1C for this year to play with experienced guys. For the second line, I have a feeling Knight is going to come in and fit well hard working young guys, baert and Knight will produce some nice plays. The third line is Monahan being surrounded by experienced guys that will help him develop and guys that can create energy and plays. Fourth line is just another hard working line that is big and will also develop scoring oppertunities and kill penalties.

Furthermore, the flames team is a hard working team under hartley... it will be an exciting year to watch the flames grow.

Goflames3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-22-2013, 04:05 PM
  #317
The Gnome
Registered User
 
The Gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameaholic View Post
You don't get it do you? Backlund is still young and has the potential to grow. Stajan will never be anything more than a 10 goal, 45 point center.
You are arguing over a non-issue, give it a rest. If we had a 1st line centre and put Stajan on the 1st line then you would have an argument. We have a few top 9 centres on this team, which line they play on is anyone's guess at this point.

If Stajan can handle top line competition better than any other centre he will play on our 1st line. Nobody is saying that Stajan is a 1st line player, simply that he may play on the 1st line out of necessity.

The Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-22-2013, 04:08 PM
  #318
King In The North
Sean Bennett
 
King In The North's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hamilton, On
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,886
vCash: 500
Stajan shouldn't be on the 4th line

King In The North is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-22-2013, 04:12 PM
  #319
MarkGio
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,272
vCash: 500
I think we should just trade Stajan just to put an end to the everlasting debate of him being on the top line. Man, the Flames need to focus on centremen during this rebuild. This issue is a nightmare.

MarkGio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-22-2013, 05:30 PM
  #320
Johnny Hoxville
Moderator
Dust Buster
 
Johnny Hoxville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,592
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
I think we should just trade Stajan just to put an end to the everlasting debate of him being on the top line. Man, the Flames need to focus on centremen during this rebuild. This issue is a nightmare.
Knight, Monahan, and Janko all sound like a good start to me.

Johnny Hoxville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-22-2013, 05:33 PM
  #321
MarkGio
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,272
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MVW View Post
Knight, Monahan, and Janko all sound like a good start to me.
Yeah man. I wonder which of Horak, Arnold, Reinhart, and Granlund get converted to wing?

MarkGio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-22-2013, 05:41 PM
  #322
Signature
Capitano Giordano
 
Signature's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Country: Hong Kong
Posts: 5,085
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Yeah man. I wonder which of Horak, Arnold, Reinhart, and Granlund get converted to wing?
My guess is Granlund and Horak will most likely become wingers if they make the club full time as their game is best suited for a transition to the wing. My favourite to take the fourth line centre position would be Reinhart, not to speak poorly of Arnold.

Signature is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-22-2013, 05:48 PM
  #323
Anglesmith
Moderator
Lord Byron
 
Anglesmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,217
vCash: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autograph View Post
My guess is Granlund and Horak will most likely become wingers if they make the club full time as their game is best suited for a transition to the wing. My favourite to take the fourth line centre position would be Reinhart, not to speak poorly of Arnold.
I hope it's Knight. I think he'd be great there, and Reinhart can be a better third line guy in time.

Anglesmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-22-2013, 06:32 PM
  #324
MarkGio
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,272
vCash: 500
That's a lot of left handed players in the pipes. It would be nice to have more righties in the system.

MarkGio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-22-2013, 06:39 PM
  #325
Anglesmith
Moderator
Lord Byron
 
Anglesmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,217
vCash: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
That's a lot of left handed players in the pipes. It would be nice to have more righties in the system.
A few who shoot switch could be useful, too. Give them flat-bladed sticks.

Anglesmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:48 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.