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2013 Offseason Thread Part VI: Vinny Lecavalier chooses Philly (5 years, $4.5M per)

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Old
07-02-2013, 02:22 PM
  #876
Ola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cacchioli22 View Post
so you would rather him in the middle over stepan or brassard? can skate well enough to play center and cant play 3c
Yeah, I rather move Brassard to wing.

Also, lets make one thing clear, in an ideal world AV wants two scoring lines, a shutdown line and a energy line. Alright. In Vancouver he had two players who in recent years has won Art Ross Trophies, Hart, Lester Patricks etc. on his top line. They always delivered. Looking at ice time, AV also for long periods did not play his "2nd line" much. Kessler played alot, but he PKd and PPd, the other wingers on the second line often played less 5 on 5 than forwards on the 3rd and sometimes even 4th line. But he had that awesome 1st line and could build a game around them.

I've heard many coaches before say that they want to go a little more 2/2 then spreading out the talent which is the norm today.

But, the minute those two first lines don't deliver, you have a 3rd line just trying to kill of time and a 4th line that in that situation really don't serve a purpose -- any coach will try to experiment. Can one of the "skilled" players on a scoring line come to his right with more support from the 2-way players on the 3rd line? And so forth.

I would definitely like to state that I am sceptical that AV can frontload the team with more or less "all" talent on the top 2 lines and then have a 3rd line to kill time/get up ice. Because if those 2 lines does not deliver and does not provide you with momentum, and the 3rd just is supposed to kill time, you get zero momentum. We have found ourself in that situation on two occasions at least with Renney and on two occasions with John Tortorella. Under Renney for example, we as a team looked like sheit Drury and Gomez first years here (X-Gomez-JJ, X-Drury-Shanahan with the 3rd and 4th being pretty typcal shut down/energe lines): and it wasn't until Dubinsky came in and centered Jagr (with Avery) and Drury ended up on a 3rd line (Straka-Drury-Callahan) that was pretty decent and Betts was bumped back to the 4th line that we started to play well. That year we played extremely well in the second half of the season (we were the best team in the league G43-G82 if I remember correctly), but just ran into a very strong Pittsburgh team in the PO's. Torts also had exactly that problem last year for example, until Mitchell and Hagelin was brought up, and gave us depth so that we got 2-way third and forth lines.

I can guarantee this, if we can't put togehter two strong lines, or atleast one that is very dominant, AV will -- not -- just ice a shut down 3rd line because that would make our team really weak. In fact, the biggest strength we have as a team, besides Hank, is our depth. We are not going to utilize that?

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07-02-2013, 02:31 PM
  #877
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
I'm pretty sure that's illegal in the new CBA. That's why cap hits are so high now.
I am a bit tired today...

The last years can only be 2.5m of course (50 percent of highest paid year) and it can't be less than 33% then the year before.

5
5
5
5
5
3.3
2.5
=4.4m per.

I am still telling you, thats an incredible deal for a very solid center in this environment. Clarkson gets 6m per...

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Old
07-02-2013, 02:33 PM
  #878
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Hagelin Richards Nash
Kreider Stepan MZA
Miller Brassard Callahan
Haley Boyle Dorsett
Asham

McDonagh Girardi
Staal DelZotto
Moore Stralman
Falk

Two good scoring lines, one good defensive line, one energy line.

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Old
07-02-2013, 02:36 PM
  #879
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I am a bit tired today...

The last years can only be 2.5m of course (50 percent of highest paid year) and it can't be less than 33% then the year before.

5
5
5
5
5
3.3
2.5
=4.4m per.

I am still telling you, thats an incredible deal for a very solid center in this environment. Clarkson gets 6m per...
...Because signing other teams' free agents has worked so well in the past. I wonder how Vinny will feel when we buy out his best friend next summer.

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Old
07-02-2013, 02:36 PM
  #880
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Yeah, I rather move Brassard to wing.

Also, lets make one thing clear, in an ideal world AV wants two scoring lines, a shutdown line and a energy line. Alright. In Vancouver he had two players who in recent years has won Art Ross Trophies, Hart, Lester Patricks etc. on his top line. They always delivered. Looking at ice time, AV also for long periods did not play his "2nd line" much. Kessler played alot, but he PKd and PPd, the other wingers on the second line often played less 5 on 5 than forwards on the 3rd and sometimes even 4th line. But he had that awesome 1st line and could build a game around them.

I've heard many coaches before say that they want to go a little more 2/2 then spreading out the talent which is the norm today.

But, the minute those two first lines don't deliver, you have a 3rd line just trying to kill of time and a 4th line that in that situation really don't serve a purpose -- any coach will try to experiment. Can one of the "skilled" players on a scoring line come to his right with more support from the 2-way players on the 3rd line? And so forth.

I would definitely like to state that I am sceptical that AV can frontload the team with more or less "all" talent on the top 2 lines and then have a 3rd line to kill time/get up ice. Because if those 2 lines does not deliver and does not provide you with momentum, and the 3rd just is supposed to kill time, you get zero momentum. We have found ourself in that situation on two occasions at least with Renney and on two occasions with John Tortorella. Under Renney for example, we as a team looked like sheit Drury and Gomez first years here (X-Gomez-JJ, X-Drury-Shanahan with the 3rd and 4th being pretty typcal shut down/energe lines): and it wasn't until Dubinsky came in and centered Jagr (with Avery) and Drury ended up on a 3rd line (Straka-Drury-Callahan) that was pretty decent and Betts was bumped back to the 4th line that we started to play well. That year we played extremely well in the second half of the season (we were the best team in the league G43-G82 if I remember correctly), but just ran into a very strong Pittsburgh team in the PO's. Torts also had exactly that problem last year for example, until Mitchell and Hagelin was brought up, and gave us depth so that we got 2-way third and forth lines.

I can guarantee this, if we can't put togehter two strong lines, or atleast one that is very dominant, AV will -- not -- just ice a shut down 3rd line because that would make our team really weak. In fact, the biggest strength we have as a team, besides Hank, is our depth. We are not going to utilize that?
I agree with this.


Last edited by Lundsanity30: 07-02-2013 at 03:00 PM.
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Old
07-02-2013, 02:51 PM
  #881
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Dreger tweet

Quote:
Bozak contract talks expected to resume today with Leafs. Proposal on the table believed to be 8 years at less than $5 mil per.
https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/sta...18009357271040

TSN story

Quote:
According to TSN Hockey Insider Darren Dreger, the most recent response from Bozak's representatives is an eight-year contract proposal averaging less than $5 million per season.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=426783

In the tweet,it sounded like TO made that proposal. In the story,it was the agents. Newport Sports.

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Old
07-02-2013, 02:52 PM
  #882
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Quote:
Flames confirm a 4th round pick in 2015 for Calgary-born TJ Gagliardi. Flames appear to be going local. Is Mason Raymond next?
https://twitter.com/JSportsnet/statu...51744412790785

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Old
07-02-2013, 02:55 PM
  #883
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Crazy money will be spent again.

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Old
07-02-2013, 02:59 PM
  #884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh3217 View Post
Hagelin Richards Nash
Kreider Stepan MZA
Miller Brassard Callahan
Haley Boyle Dorsett
Asham

McDonagh Girardi
Staal DelZotto
Moore Stralman
Falk

Two good scoring lines, one good defensive line, one energy line.
For what we have right now, I think this is good balance I like these lines

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Old
07-02-2013, 03:03 PM
  #885
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Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun

San Jose Sharks have traded TJ Galiardi to Calgary for a draft pick.


feasters gonna feast

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Old
07-02-2013, 03:17 PM
  #886
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
...Because signing other teams' free agents has worked so well in the past. I wonder how Vinny will feel when we buy out his best friend next summer.
I don't either believe in building a team around roughly 30 y/o UFAs.

But it's also to a big extent about just getting a good player at a good value. If Drury, a player who never topped 69 pts, signs here for 3-4 years and 3-4 m per, we all probably love the dude. Compare the pressure on Matt Cullen with the pressure on Scott Gomez, that is 7m per vs 3m per.

I agree that signing UFAs can suck. You will overpay -- because there is a shortage of good players -- and it's really tough for a player to function in an environment where it's just impossible for him to "do well", a 5m player can never be seen as a success if seen as a 7m player. We are all human and need positive encouragement.

Marian Gaborik got a good contract and he was a good enough player. Chara was a great UFA signing. They are hard to make. I don't think I've argued for us to sign any of the UFAs out there. But, at 4.4m per I'd take Vinny L. I think he really would help us. He is a 5.5-6m player making 4.4m per.

I just see that as a item on the plus account.

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Old
07-02-2013, 03:19 PM
  #887
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I don't either believe in building a team around roughly 30 y/o UFAs.

But it's also to a big extent about just getting a good player at a good value. If Drury, a player who never topped 69 pts, signs here for 3-4 years and 3-4 m per, we all probably love the dude. Compare the pressure on Matt Cullen with the pressure on Scott Gomez, that is 7m per vs 3m per.

I agree that signing UFAs can suck. You will overpay -- because there is a shortage of good players -- and it's really tough for a player to function in an environment where it's just impossible for him to "do well", a 5m player can never be seen as a success if seen as a 7m player. We are all human and need positive encouragement.

Marian Gaborik got a good contract and he was a good enough player. Chara was a great UFA signing. They are hard to make. I don't think I've argued for us to sign any of the UFAs out there. But, at 4.4m per I'd take Vinny L. I think he really would help us. He is a 5.5-6m player making 4.4m per.

I just see that as a item on the plus account.
How many years would you give him, though?

And I guarantee some moron GM will give him over 5.5/year. I just hope that it isn't our moron who does that.

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07-02-2013, 03:22 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
How many years would you give him, though?

And I guarantee some moron GM will give him over 5.5/year. I just hope that it isn't our moron who does that.
I would go 3-4 years @ 4-5 million for VL. It's a moot point because they have no space with Richards.

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07-02-2013, 04:07 PM
  #889
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I see the Avs placed Hunwick on waivers. God I hope we stay away from him. He would be next season's whipping boy.

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07-02-2013, 04:08 PM
  #890
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=426777

"Russo also looks at the possibility of buying out defenceman Tom Gilbert as well as a troika of trade targets, including Devin Setoguchi, Zenon Konopka and – from the longshot bracket – Dany Heatley."

I'd would love to trade for Konopka, he can win faceoffs, he fights, and is an excellent penalty kill guy. Getting him, with a reasonable cap hit of less than a million gives us great depth up the middle, but not playing Richards or Brassard on a 3rd line which is a recipe for disaster.

4th round pick for Konopka

Nash-Stepan-Kreider
Richards-Brassard-Callahan
Hagelin-Boyle-Zuccarello
Pyatt-Konopka-Asham

McDonagh-Girardi
Staal-Del Zotto
Stralman-Moore

Lundqvist-Biron

Scratches: Falk, Dorsett, Powe

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07-02-2013, 04:14 PM
  #891
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
For what we have right now, I think this is good balance I like these lines
Thanks for agreeing with me for once!

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07-02-2013, 04:14 PM
  #892
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Sather should go after Teubert or Peckham and sign them to a 2way deal.

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07-02-2013, 04:20 PM
  #893
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Sather should go after Teubert or Peckham and sign them to a 2way deal.
both unqualified, but no thanks. Not very good hockey players.

Teubert being unqualified worries me about McIlrath. Very hesitant to draft these coke machine, boom-bust dmen in the top 10.

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07-02-2013, 04:22 PM
  #894
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Bigger question to me is wether Richards or Brass can be an effective winger. Neither is going to be good as a bottom 6 center, IMO.

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07-02-2013, 04:22 PM
  #895
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Originally Posted by SixGoalieSystem View Post
I see the Avs placed Hunwick on waivers. God I hope we stay away from him. He would be next season's whipping boy.
...But look at how good he is!

...Oh, that's Stu Bickel. Nevermind then.

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Old
07-02-2013, 04:23 PM
  #896
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Yeah, I rather move Brassard to wing.

Also, lets make one thing clear, in an ideal world AV wants two scoring lines, a shutdown line and a energy line. Alright. In Vancouver he had two players who in recent years has won Art Ross Trophies, Hart, Lester Patricks etc. on his top line. They always delivered. Looking at ice time, AV also for long periods did not play his "2nd line" much. Kessler played alot, but he PKd and PPd, the other wingers on the second line often played less 5 on 5 than forwards on the 3rd and sometimes even 4th line. But he had that awesome 1st line and could build a game around them.

.....

I can guarantee this, if we can't put togehter two strong lines, or atleast one that is very dominant, AV will -- not -- just ice a shut down 3rd line because that would make our team really weak. In fact, the biggest strength we have as a team, besides Hank, is our depth. We are not going to utilize that?
AV is going to adjust his game plan for the roster that he has now. I find trying to apply the way he handled a roster with Sedins on it to handling ours to be a bit off the ledge. That is to say, we have absolutely no idea.

To the bolded, our forward depth is not a strength. At all. It's been the biggest problem with this team for two years, and it was worse with our current roster than it was in 2011-12.

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07-02-2013, 04:24 PM
  #897
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Canadiens did not qualified D Yannick Weber. He'll be UFA on July 5th.


I would prefer not to sign Falk and go after Weber or Blum.

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Old
07-02-2013, 04:29 PM
  #898
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Something about all of these names not qualified... most of them are arb eligible.

With the inability to walk away from arb awards under $3.5m, I think you're going to be seeing this happen a lot every year going forward.

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Old
07-02-2013, 04:30 PM
  #899
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We need to sign Falk and go after those guys. We're still a depth D short.

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07-02-2013, 04:31 PM
  #900
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Christian Thomas traded...

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