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Quebec City Part X: Pousse mais pousse égal Gary! (Mod warning post #774)

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Old
12-07-2013, 03:46 PM
  #526
Buck Aki Berg
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Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
Some new info from Ken Daneyko on MSG:

Quote:
''now fully expects to see an NHL team in Seattle and Quebec within two years''

''Seattle will happen. Quebec will probably as well. Sportsnet money is behind the latter''
Sounds great! It goes with some more rumours I've heard, that with the Québecor/Rogers blockbuster TV Deal, Québecor was able to negotiate Roger's help to bring a team to Québec.
Who "fully expects" this? Daneyko? His sources? The league? PKP? Hugh Laurie?

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12-07-2013, 10:10 PM
  #527
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Some new info from Ken Daneyko on MSG:




Sounds great! It goes with some more rumours I've heard, that with the Québecor/Rogers blockbuster TV Deal, Québecor was able to negotiate Roger's help to bring a team to Québec.
Watching the attendance in Columbus, Florida (Sunrise), Phoenix makes you wonder which of those teams will be relocated to the new rink in QC.

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12-07-2013, 10:13 PM
  #528
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Watching the attendance in Columbus, Florida (Sunrise), Phoenix makes you wonder which of those teams will be relocated to the new rink in QC.
If your hope is one of those teams through relocation, I'll tell you right now you should already limit yourself to hoping for the Yotes in 4.5 years (and even this is still an if, albeit the most credible one of the supposed relocation candidates out there), as neither the Jackets (new long term arena lease providing substantially more stability) or the Panthers (ownership group needs an anchor team for them to continue to rake in the dough with various local development deals that are dependent on that) are moving anytime soon.

That, or pray for expansion and hope that QC's ahead of Seattle and/or Portland in terms of where the NHL wants to go (entirely different from who's most ready).

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12-08-2013, 12:31 AM
  #529
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Watching the attendance in Columbus, Florida (Sunrise), Phoenix makes you wonder which of those teams will be relocated to the new rink in QC.
The Jackets just got a new long lease, the Panthers just got bought by a guy who is retiring in Florida and they have a really strong lease that makes no sense to get out of, and the Devils just got sold to a owner committed on keeping the team in New Jersey. There is only one team that has a chance of being relocated in the next 10 years, and even that is 4.6 years away.

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12-08-2013, 07:22 AM
  #530
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Watching the attendance in Columbus, Florida (Sunrise), Phoenix makes you wonder which of those teams will be relocated to the new rink in QC.
Yea I was watching a Panthers game and I cannot believe for the life of me how a major sport league can keep a team there with those attendances. I remember back in the day before the Minnesota North Stars moved, they had atrocious attendances like this and it was a major crisis, everybody that knows hockey were talking about cause it was a weird occurance and it didn't take a lot of time for them to move. Now we see this all over.

Now as far as leases, it could easily be included in for the transfer money.

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12-08-2013, 09:06 AM
  #531
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Originally Posted by ucanthanzalthetruth View Post
The Jackets just got a new long lease, the Panthers just got bought by a guy who is retiring in Florida and they have a really strong lease that makes no sense to get out of, and the Devils just got sold to a owner committed on keeping the team in New Jersey. There is only one team that has a chance of being relocated in the next 10 years, and even that is 4.6 years away.
The Panthers ownership has been a revolving door for years. I don't think it's because it's such a great deal.

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12-08-2013, 09:09 AM
  #532
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Oh how Quebecois salivate over the thought of Huberdeau as their franchise player.

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12-08-2013, 09:31 AM
  #533
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The Panthers ownership has been a revolving door for years. I don't think it's because it's such a great deal.
I don't have the info in front of me, but if the value of the team in those purchases has increased, then it could be exactly because it's a great deal.

Truth is, though, that the Panthers attendance doesn't really matter too much, since within that organization, the team plays a role similar to a loss leader. As long as you can make money through owning the Panthers, they're going to stay in Sunrise.

Barring a drastic change in the situation of any of the current teams, I'd have to agree that the only relocation hope for QC is Phoenix at the end of the 5 year agreement. Of course, this kind of thing really can change at any moment.

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12-08-2013, 12:06 PM
  #534
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I love these threads.... Columbus fans vs. QC and Seattle fans, Florida fans vs. QC and Seattle fans, Seattle fans vs. QC fans, Hamilton fans vs. everyone, Phoenix fans vs. everyone, periodically Nashville fans vs. everyone.... you have to have a really thick skin to follow all the relocation speculation in the NHL.

For the record I as a QC fan would take Florida, Phoenix, Nashville, NJ, Tampa or anyone else.

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12-08-2013, 12:17 PM
  #535
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For the record I as a QC fan would take Florida, Phoenix, Nashville, NJ, Tampa or anyone else.
Totally get that, though I'm just saying that you're wasting a lot of your energy and hopes if you expect most of those teams to realistically be on the relocation block.

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12-08-2013, 12:43 PM
  #536
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Why is everyone suddenly speaking of relocation all of a sudden?

It's ridiculous to do so now!

Litterally ALL NHL franchises are now stable for AT LEAST 4+ years! (the Islanders relocating to Brooklyn, Atlanta relocated to Winnipeg, new owners and generous leases everywhere else that was in trouble...)

And many NHL insiders and analysts hearing rumors that a 2 team expansion is comming soon!

Expansion is the only way Québec/Seattle get a team soon, not relocation!

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12-08-2013, 01:34 PM
  #537
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Yea I was watching a Panthers game and I cannot believe for the life of me how a major sport league can keep a team there with those attendances. I remember back in the day before the Minnesota North Stars moved, they had atrocious attendances like this and it was a major crisis, everybody that knows hockey were talking about cause it was a weird occurance and it didn't take a lot of time for them to move. Now we see this all over.

Now as far as leases, it could easily be included in for the transfer money.
The profit margins of the Panthers owners is not dependant at all on the attendance of the nhl team. If the Panthers have success like in 2012 and get a bit of playoff revenue, it's simply an added bonus. They have no choice but to keep the team there if they wish to keep profiting. The Panthers are a loss leader, it's a fact. You may get angry that their attendance is low, but it's irrelevant in terms of moving the franchise.

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The Panthers ownership has been a revolving door for years. I don't think it's because it's such a great deal.
Each time they've been sold it's been for a higher price. GB has come out and said the team was always safe, but this newest deal is further proof of that. I don't see how a New York based owner who is retiring in Florida and is good friends with Ceo Michael Yormark is a sign of anything but stable ownership.
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I don't have the info in front of me, but if the value of the team in those purchases has increased, then it could be exactly because it's a great deal.

Truth is, though, that the Panthers attendance doesn't really matter too much, since within that organization, the team plays a role similar to a loss leader. As long as you can make money through owning the Panthers, they're going to stay in Sunrise.

Barring a drastic change in the situation of any of the current teams, I'd have to agree that the only relocation hope for QC is Phoenix at the end of the 5 year agreement. Of course, this kind of thing really can change at any moment.
This, except I disagree with things can change in any moment. There is no evidence of any team even being remotely close to moving before the Coyotes in 2018, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if they stay there long term depending on the wonky city council.

[MOD EDIT]
I don't understand why anyone hopes for relocation, especially in cities that lost their teams, and especially considering that expansion will happen within 5 years time, but I'm used to it, so whatever.


Last edited by Major4Boarding: 12-09-2013 at 08:16 AM. Reason: QDP
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Old
12-08-2013, 01:35 PM
  #538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
Why is everyone suddenly speaking of relocation all of a sudden?

It's ridiculous to do so now!

Litterally ALL NHL franchises are now stable for AT LEAST 4+ years! (the Islanders relocating to Brooklyn, Atlanta relocated to Winnipeg, new owners and generous leases everywhere else that was in trouble...)

And many NHL insiders and analysts hearing rumors that a 2 team expansion is comming soon!

Expansion is the only way Québec/Seattle get a team soon, not relocation!
Didn't see this post before, but 100% agree on everything you said

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Old
12-08-2013, 10:39 PM
  #539
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Oh how Quebecois salivate over the thought of Huberdeau as their franchise player.
Now if only the Panthers have would have taken Drouin as their first pick instead of Barkov!

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12-08-2013, 10:44 PM
  #540
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
I don't have the info in front of me, but if the value of the team in those purchases has increased, then it could be exactly because it's a great deal.

Truth is, though, that the Panthers attendance doesn't really matter too much, since within that organization, the team plays a role similar to a loss leader. As long as you can make money through owning the Panthers, they're going to stay in Sunrise.

Barring a drastic change in the situation of any of the current teams, I'd have to agree that the only relocation hope for QC is Phoenix at the end of the 5 year agreement. Of course, this kind of thing really can change at any moment.
Let's make a bet shall we? I predict that the Panthers are gonna have a new owner in the next 3 to 5 years.

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12-08-2013, 10:48 PM
  #541
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Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
Why is everyone suddenly speaking of relocation all of a sudden?

It's ridiculous to do so now!

Litterally ALL NHL franchises are now stable for AT LEAST 4+ years! (the Islanders relocating to Brooklyn, Atlanta relocated to Winnipeg, new owners and generous leases everywhere else that was in trouble...)

And many NHL insiders and analysts hearing rumors that a 2 team expansion is comming soon!

Expansion is the only way Québec/Seattle get a team soon, not relocation!
A lease can be included in the sale. Say Quebecor buy a team, they can also put more on the table to cover the lease.

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12-08-2013, 10:54 PM
  #542
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Quebec will have an expansion team before a relocation team becomes available IMO.

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12-08-2013, 10:58 PM
  #543
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Originally Posted by ucanthanzalthetruth View Post
This, except I disagree with things can change in any moment. There is no evidence of any team even being remotely close to moving before the Coyotes in 2018, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if they stay there long term depending on the wonky city council.
Well, that there isn't evidence now isn't the same as saying that all teams are perfectly stable. I didn't really mean that the situation can change at any moment, but rather that what we know can.

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Let's make a bet shall we? I predict that the Panthers are gonna have a new owner in the next 3 to 5 years.
I wouldn't bet against it. I would bet against them being sold to a relocation interest in that time.

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12-08-2013, 11:15 PM
  #544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
Why is everyone suddenly speaking of relocation all of a sudden?

It's ridiculous to do so now!

Litterally ALL NHL franchises are now stable for AT LEAST 4+ years! (the Islanders relocating to Brooklyn, Atlanta relocated to Winnipeg, new owners and generous leases everywhere else that was in trouble...)

And many NHL insiders and analysts hearing rumors that a 2 team expansion is comming soon!

Expansion is the only way Québec/Seattle get a team soon, not relocation!
We in Winnipeg are lucky enough to have all the Jets games televised, on their latest 6 game road trip we got to see just how much fans love hockey in places like Long Island, NJ and Florida, trouble was that none of those rinks were even half full, add to that ticket prices probably less than CHL hockey in Canada, makes you wonder why there is no team in QC and why the NHL fought so hard to keep team in those markets.


Last edited by No Fun Shogun: 12-09-2013 at 12:16 AM. Reason: insulting other fanbases
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12-09-2013, 09:56 AM
  #545
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I don't have the info in front of me, but if the value of the team in those purchases has increased, then it could be exactly because it's a great deal.

Truth is, though, that the Panthers attendance doesn't really matter too much, since within that organization, the team plays a role similar to a loss leader. As long as you can make money through owning the Panthers, they're going to stay in Sunrise.
I have the info in front of me

The likelihood of an ajoining Casino/Racino next to BB&T in the coming years most assumably jacked the purchase price up to $240M. Mr. Viola, given his ties to the gaming industry (Horses), either has been given intel that spells a favorable environment in upcoming legislation that destination resort gaming will pass or he sees the opportunity to cross-promote through his ties in the gaming industry (if in the event that gaming in FL does not get a whole influx of licenses, thus an ajoining gaming facility).

The closest that previous ownership, or better yet Yormark, came to having a facility next to BB&T was thru their partnership with Boyd Gaming, who flirted with transferring the license from Dania Jai Alai to the proposed ajoining facility but that went to the curb when Boyd sold Dania to a group from Argentina.

Now, considering that Boyd bought Dania for $150M (2006) and then sold it for $65M this past May, a facility in similar size, available slots and other amenities (simulcast and so on) tends to make one think that a facility next to BB&T would be in the range of $55M - $75M in value. That's not saying that's what they'll rake in. Just the overall "value".

It sure isn't going to be in the grandiose stature that say, a Sands, MGM, or Genting will be putting together in Miami - Dade (if legislation passes). The one thing I would caution with is, however, that the longer the project next to BB&T is paused, the further down the line the facility would be in regards to relevance.

Its main area competition has in its inventory or has done the following:

Isle Casino and Racing in Pompano Beach -1,442 slots.
Mardi Gras Casino in Hallandale Beach - 1,048 slots.
Gulfstream Park Racing & Casino -861.
And the recently relinquished Dania Jai Alai & Casino - 550 (Beginning in Jan., with another 1,000 to be installed by 2015)

The state maximum is 2,000, unless tweaked to allow more later on with only the Hard Rock (Seminole Indian Tribe) allowed to have exemption from the limit due their State Compact, which is 2,500 and their Coconut Creek facility (2,300).

Anyway, too much time spent on the sale price circumstances. Through info provided via the last 2 publicly accessible Broward County Audits, Sunrise Sports and Entertainment pulls in anywhere between $9M-$12M in net income annually.

Proponents of the team staying are comfortable with that net, thus arguing that they make money. Opponents of the Panthers and thus advocating their relocation say that the team relocated over the border would easily clear that $9M-$12M on its own and not have to rely on Arena Revenues to get there.

And... its still my opinion that QC will be awarded an expansion franchise, not a relocated one.


Last edited by Major4Boarding: 12-09-2013 at 10:04 AM. Reason: grammar
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Old
12-09-2013, 11:19 AM
  #546
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I have the info in front of me


And... its still my opinion that QC will be awarded an expansion franchise, not a relocated one.
An expension make more sense in quebec, we supported a loosing teams for years without a drop in attendance, we will do it again with an expansion. Not all market will do the same... the "relocation" will be kept for "not so sure" market...

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12-10-2013, 05:37 PM
  #547
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Just saw the mayor on tv tonight

43M under budget for the arena so far so good

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Old
12-11-2013, 09:42 PM
  #548
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An expension make more sense in quebec, we supported a loosing teams for years without a drop in attendance, we will do it again with an expansion. Not all market will do the same... the "relocation" will be kept for "not so sure" market...
Hey as long as we draft McDavid.

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12-11-2013, 09:51 PM
  #549
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Just saw the mayor on tv tonight

43M under budget for the arena so far so good
Two other tidbits as well:

The plaza will (in majority) not be built before the arena is done. They don't want to put art that's not going to have much of an effect when they realize (too late) the arena is much bigger than they had imagined in concept.

It's unclear what would be done with the remaining money was there to be any, something about the provincial money put in the project. It would be split evenly, I'd guess?

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12-11-2013, 11:54 PM
  #550
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Also the plaza will be in a separate budget, not the $400M. It won't be very high, though.

I think they should wait until the arena is done and see how parking goes for big events. I somewhat fear that traffic will be a major nightmare there before and after big concerts or if there are NHL games. It's already quite bad for Remparts games right now (I wouldn't be surprised if this was part of the reason why attendance went down). That said, if they ever demolish the old Colisée (more likely now that Quebec lost the 2017 World Junior Championship and isn't planning to bid for Olympics anymore), that will free up a lot of space for parking, so there would be more place for a big plaza for outdoor concerts and stuff.

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